Aborted Takeoff Scenario

[tonycondon]

Had a good one today, could also be titled "when to NOT abort your takeoff"

Both runways in use today at the airport with pretty much all powered traffic on 19 and glider/towplane traffic on 13. This keeps incursions and go arounds to a minimum but also presents some challenges in keeping track of traffic. I staged my glider to get ready to launch as a 172 was on final for 19. Once I was ready he had landed and cleared the runway. I signalled and radioed that I was ready to takeoff. Towpilot made a radio call that we were departing 13. The 172 was taxiing parallel to 19 and came to the 13/31 crossing. As we were rolling (I was airborne) he made a radio call that he was crossing 13/31 and started to roll onto the runway. Towpilot made a fast and stern call "traffic HOLD SHORT" I started to go for the release. The 172 saw us and gave it lots of power and quickly got across the runway. I could see as it was unfolding that the towplane would be airborne and able to climb over him even if he had been on the runway. If either one of us had aborted it would've only compounded the situation.

so obviously there are times when, on the surface, an abort would seem appropriate, but really its not the best thing to do.

Good news is the 172 pilot came over and apologized to the towpilot. All's well that ends well and the 3 of us all learned something.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I had a very similar situation there once...I announced our depature and started the tow, and just as the glider (I think it may have been Matt, actually, when he was a student) became airborne, I saw an airplane departing 19 approaching the intersection. A quick abort there would have been rather hazardous, too, so I rolled up on the right main and took off in the turn...turned inside 19 and continued from there.

Never heard a word from him on the CTAF, and at least at the time it was pretty blind between the two runways.

Fly safe!

David

 

[rottydaddy]

Just be thankful he didn't roll over (or into?) the tow rope...
I actually saw somebody ride a motorcycle over the rope once, just as the towplane was about to roll. Said he didn't see the rope, or the glider, or the towplane. And no, it was not nighttime and zero-zero.

 

[PittsDriver]

I had a runway incursion on my glider check ride and on the tow break scenario of all places. A tow plane from another school sat on the runway about a third way down and didn't have a radio on board. The examiner had released me high enough to fly a downwind, base, and final to land and as I'm turning base the examiner asked me what my plan was if he didn't move. I responded, "stow the brakes, we'll fly over him and flip him the finger, and land on the remaining runway. If he starts to move, we'll hit the brakes and get it down behind him." His response "That's just what I would have done." He was still sitting there when we passed overhead.

My guess is that tow pilot had a 709 ride in his near future.

 

[Skip Miller]

Similar situation where a go-around might have been fatal. A helo had been cleared to land on taxiway alpha remain clear of the runway. Student pilot in the helo didn't, he hover-taxied along the runway to Alpha. I had been cleared to land and by the time I realized that the helo was not going to clear the runway it was too late to do a go-around. Besides, (and this is an after the fact explanation of the gut feeling I had at the time) it may have been suicide to adopt a Vx attitude and put the helo below the nose. He's not doing what he is supposed to do, what is he going to do next?

The helo got the number to call and have your instructor on the line, too. -Skip

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Here's where Mesa Airlines got to practice on of these recently.

Best,

Dave

September 22, 2008

************************************************************

NTSB INVESTIGATING RUNWAY INCURSION IN ALLENTOWN, PA.

************************************************************

The National Transportation Safety Board is
investigating a runway incursion Friday evening in
Allentown, Pennsylvania involving a general aviation
aircraft and a Chicago-bound regional jet airliner.

At 7:45 p.m. on September 19, a Cessna R172K (N736GV)
was on a landing roll on runway 6 at the Lehigh Valley
International Airport when the pilot was instructed to exit
the runway at taxiway A4. Mesa Airlines flight 7138, a CRJ-
700 (N506MJ), already instructed to position and hold on the
same runway, was then given clearance by the same controller
to take off.

During the takeoff roll, the Mesa crew heard the
Cessna pilot say that he'd missed the taxiway A4 turnoff and
ask to exit at taxiway B. The Mesa crew saw the Cessna
ahead on the runway and aborted the takeoff at about 120
knots, swerving around the Cessna. The Mesa crew estimated
that they missed colliding with the Cessna by about 10 feet.

Night visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and
there were no reported injuries to the 60 persons aboard the
jet or those aboard the Cessna.

 

[ScottM]

Darn GA causing a delay to the air carriers!

Good action by the Mesa crew.

Here's where Mesa Airlines got to practice on of these recently.

Best,

Dave

September 22, 2008

************************************************************

NTSB INVESTIGATING RUNWAY INCURSION IN ALLENTOWN, PA.

************************************************************

The National Transportation Safety Board is
investigating a runway incursion Friday evening in
Allentown, Pennsylvania involving a general aviation
aircraft and a Chicago-bound regional jet airliner.

At 7:45 p.m. on September 19, a Cessna R172K (N736GV)
was on a landing roll on runway 6 at the Lehigh Valley
International Airport when the pilot was instructed to exit
the runway at taxiway A4. Mesa Airlines flight 7138, a CRJ-
700 (N506MJ), already instructed to position and hold on the
same runway, was then given clearance by the same controller
to take off.

During the takeoff roll, the Mesa crew heard the
Cessna pilot say that he'd missed the taxiway A4 turnoff and
ask to exit at taxiway B. The Mesa crew saw the Cessna
ahead on the runway and aborted the takeoff at about 120
knots, swerving around the Cessna. The Mesa crew estimated
that they missed colliding with the Cessna by about 10 feet.

Night visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and
there were no reported injuries to the 60 persons aboard the
jet or those aboard the Cessna.

 

[mikea]

At 7:45 p.m. on September 19, a Cessna R172K (N736GV)
was on a landing roll on runway 6 at the Lehigh Valley
International Airport when the pilot was instructed to exit
the runway at taxiway A4. Mesa Airlines flight 7138, a CRJ-
700 (N506MJ), already instructed to position and hold on the
same runway, was then given clearance by the same controller
to take off.

During the takeoff roll, the Mesa crew heard the
Cessna pilot say that he'd missed the taxiway A4 turnoff and
ask to exit at taxiway B. The Mesa crew saw the Cessna
ahead on the runway and aborted the takeoff at about 120
knots, swerving around the Cessna. The Mesa crew estimated
that they missed colliding with the Cessna by about 10 feet.
...

Since when can you be instructed to exit at a given taxiway?

I'll exit when I'm slowed down and under control, sir.

I do take make every effort to take the first and have gone along but that runway is mine until I get off.

Obviously, this controller had no business giving the takeoff clearance until he Cessna was clear and the Mesa crew could have used their eyeballs to see if the runway ahead was clear.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Sounds to me like tower told the jet to depart before he knew the 172 was clear of the runway. Sounds like the jet pilot didn't keep track of the landing traffic in front of him.

I've been told to turn off at a particular taxiway and couldn't. I just called back and said we couldn't make that one, we'll be off on the next. Maybe the 172 pilot could have called earlier, but from what I read, some folks were in a hurry and didn't confirm where traffic on the active was.

Best,

Dave

 

[bbchien]

That's a correction/retraining event for that controller....

 

[KennyFlys]

That's a correction/retraining event for that controller....

That was my impression. Sometimes, we're told to turn off earlier but more often than not, we land long to turn off at the desired taxiway. The controllers are used to this practice at our school and usually plan accordingly.

Likewise, they also know we get on the ball and move when cleared. So we usually get clearance for departure when many aircraft will be delayed for arrivals.