RJM62
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Geek on the Hill
A FUN way to fight global warming...
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Dave Krall CFII
Final Approach
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Dave Krall CFII SEL SES, Cmcl HELI
Did I miss the price somewhere in all that info?
I've been looking into electric cars for a few years now and found there are also some others in the $10K to $40K ranges that look OK for local driving, from an enclosed, glorified golf cart capable of about 45 mph to an electric Forester SUV.
RMCN172RG
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Dave Krall CFII
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Dave Krall CFII SEL SES, Cmcl HELI
It's on the BUY tab, base price is $98,000.
Yeah, I figured it would be over $100K to accelerate so much mass that fast.
I'm about ready to put one or two of the slower ones previously mentioned above in the garage for when gas becomes a real hassel to obtain, not for global warming concerns.
RJM62
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Geek on the Hill
Well, let's be fair. That's a pretty high-performance car. Gasoline-powered cars with performance like that aren't exactly cheap, either. Plus you have to factor in the relatively low operating costs over the life of the car, as well as the tax incentives (and being able to drive in the HOV lane on the L.I.E., even without a passenger).
I think this company is taking exactly the right approach. Instead of building "cheap" cars that can barely get out of their own way, they're starting with a high-end model for people who can afford that kind of coin for a high-performance automobile. Then hopefully they'll use that money to refine the technology, and more practical models for soccer moms will be coming out within a few years.
The advantage to electric-powered cars versus hydrogen or other technologies that require that an actual substance be put into the car is the ease with which an electric charging infrastructure could be implemented. No tanks or pipes to worry about. Just run the wires and charge by metered wattage.
Electric charging concessions at hotels, motels, rest areas, malls, tourist attractions, and other points of interest where people tend to spend a few hours would be easy and safe to implement. If the engineers can develop a high-rate charging system that reduces the charge time from 3.5 hours to 1 hour, even restaurants would be able to offer charging service in their parking lots.
Otherwise, they need to get the mileage between charges up to about 400 miles if they want to attract road warriors. 400 miles is a decent day's driving for a family on vacation, and they could charge it at a hotel, motel, or rest area.
Rich
I think this company is taking exactly the right approach. Instead of building "cheap" cars that can barely get out of their own way, they're starting with a high-end model for people who can afford that kind of coin for a high-performance automobile. Then hopefully they'll use that money to refine the technology, and more practical models for soccer moms will be coming out within a few years.
The advantage to electric-powered cars versus hydrogen or other technologies that require that an actual substance be put into the car is the ease with which an electric charging infrastructure could be implemented. No tanks or pipes to worry about. Just run the wires and charge by metered wattage.
Electric charging concessions at hotels, motels, rest areas, malls, tourist attractions, and other points of interest where people tend to spend a few hours would be easy and safe to implement. If the engineers can develop a high-rate charging system that reduces the charge time from 3.5 hours to 1 hour, even restaurants would be able to offer charging service in their parking lots.
Otherwise, they need to get the mileage between charges up to about 400 miles if they want to attract road warriors. 400 miles is a decent day's driving for a family on vacation, and they could charge it at a hotel, motel, or rest area.
Rich
Dean
Pattern Altitude
Nice car, but 220 miles between charges would not do me much good. And if I am going to spend a $100K on something, its not going to be on an electric go-cart.
mantakos
Final Approach
Consider the number of days per year that you actually drive more then 200 miles in a day. Is it better to scale up your "daily driver" to meet the 'worst-case' requirement, or to scale it to meet the typical requirement, and then rent a gas-guzzling SUV for the few days a year where you really need range?
It's sort of like selling your 172 and buying a Pilatus because you've always dreamed of taking the whole family on vacation, then you find that with everybody's schedule, this dream trip only happens once every 2 or 3 years, and now you're taking your Pilatus to a neighborhood pancake fly-in every Sunday.
-harry
EdFred
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In our business, probably over 200 days. We put on about 50,000 miles on each company vehicle each year. Oh, and will they haul 2000 pounds of stuff in em? No. Ok good, get back to me when they are practical. Lets see, that would be..........um.......never.
Edit: Oh those look they would be useless 5 months out of the year here. So much for practical.
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gprellwitz
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Grant Prellwitz
Come on Ed. I know you're our resident curmudgeon, but admit it. Your requirements aren't typical. Of course, these vehicles aren't intended for the typical requirements either, but they're for a DIFFERENT aberration than you have!
Heck, I agree with some of the comments above. If they can make a profit on these things in a premium market, then some of that profit can go to fund further R&D and make something that will appeal to at least 40%, if not 80% of the market.In terms or practicality, these would actually work for me, since I do about 80 - 100 miles per day, and I drive alone. They say that it has a heater and will work in the cold. Ed, what was the limiting factor that took out five months usage for you?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Come on Ed. I know you're our resident curmudgeon, but admit it. Your requirements aren't typical. Of course, these vehicles aren't intended for the typical requirements either, but they're for a DIFFERENT aberration than you have!
In terms or practicality, these would actually work for me, since I do about 80 - 100 miles per day, and I drive alone. They say that it has a heater and will work in the cold. Ed, what was the limiting factor that took out five months usage for you?
Ice and unplowed roads.
RJM62
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Good point, Harry.
In my own case, I fairly regularly go over 200 miles/day, but that's a function of both my job and my far-flung family. But in the case of family, I could use the mobile charger while I was there. I don't drive 3-4 hours, show up, and leave. I usually stay overnight (or at least for the day) before turning around.
Still, there's a sense in which the most gain would be derived by those who put on the most miles, so aiming for longer mileage between charges and/or the development of rapid charging technology still has very practical value. Furthermore, the improvements that could be developed in terms of battery life and motor efficiency have application beyond pure-electric vehicles (for example, plug-in hybrids).
An increasing number of NYC buses use hybrid technology, and some in that sector are considering whether that technology could be refined so that the buses run on electricity most of the time, with their fossil-fueled engines only being started when needed.
The NYC Taxi and Limousine Commission is another agency that is heavily promoting and incentivizing the development of alternative-fuel vehicles, from what I've read. The peculiar life of a NYC taxicab makes electric and other alternative-fueled vehicles very attractive, but also presents unique challenges. NYC taxis usually put on between 65,000 and 100,000 miles a year, and many are operated around the clock by different drivers. This presents a problem because the long downtime for charging makes electricity less practical.
One solution that has been tossed around would be designing the vehicles with batteries that can be quickly swapped out, so one can charge while the other is on the road. This solution would, however, add quite a bit to the cost of each car, and would likely require heavy machinery to do the actual swap. This pretty much limits its usefulness to fleets.
Still, it's good to see that some companies and agencies are aggressively pursuing alternatives. My personal belief is that what will eventually emerge is a technology that incorporates developments from multiple strategies, such as a hydrogen-electric plug-in hybrid.
Rich
mantakos
Final Approach
If you log 50000 miles in a year, driving 200 days per year, that's still only 250 miles per day, which is pretty close to the 220 mile range of this car.
No, the sporty, 0-60, 2-seater doesn't have much hauling capacity. I'm sure the trucks you're driving can't re-surface an ice rink, so a Zamboni driver might not consider them "practical", either. Look around you at the people driving to work every day, then running errands, then driving home. What do their cars look like?
As for ice and unplowed roads, I don't see any reason why such a car (well, not this one, but the small 4-seater "commuter" that people actually buy, after drooling on this one) couldn't be equipped with AWD, comparable with the typical commuter in your neighborhood.
-harry
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EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Considering I live outside of the city, probably about 1/2-3/4 the vehicles I see are carrying more than 2 people, or carrying stuff in the bed of the truck, or towing a trailer.
mantakos
Final Approach
Well, if you're hauling or towing something, then the vehicle likely to do that well is not likely to share much in common with a design intended to be an efficient commuter.
However, there are 130M passenger cars (as in "not trucks or SUVs") in the US. During a typical commute, I encounter, oh, probably about 129M of them, and they're typically single-occupant, bumper-to-bumper, next to a mostly empty HOV lane. Most people need vehicles to haul themselves to work, to haul their kids to soccer, etc
-harry