A fair report on an accident

flyersfan31

flyersfan31

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Freiburgfan31
I found out in another thread that Doug Stewart, an MCFI who does IFR trips on the East Coast, was injured in a crash of his 177. Did some digging and found this report, which was perhaps the best, most fair recounting of an aircraft accident I've read. Most of that is probably due to interviewing the pilot and letting him speak for himself. None of the "no flight plan was filed for the flight in the small airplane" bs you usually get.

I'm surprised a 1900 strip would be a challenge for a 177RG, but sounds like the 50' obstacles were a bit more than 50'!! Good thing they'll recover, but it'll take a while.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080829/GJNEWS02/708299882/-1/CITIZEN
 
Good Writeup. Feel better reading that than I did when I watched the ASF VFR into IMC flash presentation. :hairraise: Feel bad for the family members of that guy, knowing he had so many outs presented to him.
 
Not commenting on his judgment particularly, because so many questions are still unanswered. But I can tell you that I am alive today because I aborted a takeoff when something didn't feel right a couple of years ago. My mistake was waiting about five seconds too late, which caused some bent metal instead of simply a bent ego.

1900 feet is a short strip in anything larger than a cub or Maule, and shortfield takeoff rules apply!
 
alaskaflyer said:
1900 feet is a short strip in anything larger than a cub or Maule,
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If you took the extra 900 feet out of the above statement then I'd agree with you. (assuming a density altitude of less than 3000' or so).
 
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This accident was a topic of discussion at this past Sunday's brunch. We were all glad he is doing as well as he is. Most of us had attended one of his frequent safety lectures.

Anyway, the discussion centered upon the reluctance of the land owner to allow any of the trees to be topped.

From Navair:
95 ft. tree, 369 ft. from runway, 112 ft. left of centerline, 2:1 slope to clear
RWY 03 +15 FT ROAD AT THLD; +50 FT TREES AND +30 FT POWER LINES AT THLD 45 FT L; +50 FT TREES AT THLD 105 FT R.
 
AuntPeggy said:
This accident was a topic of discussion at this past Sunday's brunch. We were all glad he is doing as well as he is. Most of us had attended one of his frequent safety lectures.

Anyway, the discussion centered upon the reluctance of the land owner to allow any of the trees to be topped.

From Navair:
95 ft. tree, 369 ft. from runway, 112 ft. left of centerline, 2:1 slope to clear
RWY 03 +15 FT ROAD AT THLD; +50 FT TREES AND +30 FT POWER LINES AT THLD 45 FT L; +50 FT TREES AT THLD 105 FT R.
Click to expand...

Yes, it sounds like the trees make the effective length of the runway considerably less than 1900ft.
 
timwinters said:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If you took the extra 900 feet out of the above statement then I'd agree with you. (assuming a density altitude of less than 3000' or so).
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, didn't someone just crash after failing to properly clear the airport obstructions? B)

If you are shorter than 2000 feet you need to go through the process to keep you alive in case of insufficient acceleration. Actually, you should do that on every takeoff but it is more critical under 2000 feet.
 
alaskaflyer said:
I'm sorry, didn't someone just crash after failing to properly clear the airport obstructions? B)

If you are shorter than 2000 feet you need to go through the process to keep you alive in case of insufficient acceleration. Actually, you should do that on every takeoff but it is more critical under 2000 feet.
Click to expand...

I liked the rule of thumb I read in Sparky Imeson's Mountain Flying Bible, page i-12. (POA Book Club book, and YES, I still have it and YES I'm still reading it!)

I think it would work anywhere, not just in the mountains:

If 70.7% of the speed necessary for rotation is obtained at the halfway point of a runway, you can take off in the remaining distance. If not, ABORT the takeoff.
Click to expand...

Compute the number for your plane, have it in mind. The halfway point of any runway is easy to visualize, so this rule becomes easy and automatic to apply. Example: "Gauges green, airspeed alive, looking for 45 knots at the midpoint... NOPE! NO GO! ABORT!"
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I liked the rule of thumb I read in Sparky Imeson's Mountain Flying Bible, page i-12. (POA Book Club book, and YES, I still have it and YES I'm still reading it!)

I think it would work anywhere, not just in the mountains:



Compute the number for your plane, have it in mind. The halfway point of any runway is easy to visualize, so this rule becomes easy and automatic to apply. Example: "Gauges green, airspeed alive, looking for 45 knots at the midpoint... NOPE! NO GO! ABORT!"
Click to expand...

But, that only works for runway surface. With large obstructions, you need to "shorten" the runway considerably.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I liked the rule of thumb I read in Sparky Imeson's Mountain Flying Bible, page i-12. (POA Book Club book, and YES, I still have it and YES I'm still reading it!)

I think it would work anywhere, not just in the mountains:



Compute the number for your plane, have it in mind. The halfway point of any runway is easy to visualize, so this rule becomes easy and automatic to apply. Example: "Gauges green, airspeed alive, looking for 45 knots at the midpoint... NOPE! NO GO! ABORT!"
Click to expand...

You need to be climbing at a pretty good clip to clear these trees. Someone who knows the math of flight better than me can figure out what is needed to climb out of this 1900 ft runway and miss the 100 ft. trees. You can bet it is a lot more than we learned for the 50ft FAA trees.

Navair said:
95 ft. tree, 369 ft. from runway, 112 ft. left of centerline, 2:1 slope to clear
RWY 03 +15 FT ROAD AT THLD; +50 FT TREES AND +30 FT POWER LINES AT THLD 45 FT L; +50 FT TREES AT THLD 105 FT R.
Click to expand...

Speaking of Sparky Imeson - he also found himself on the wrong end of a rescue flight this year. Just goes to show that even the best aren't perfect.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Speaking of Sparky Imeson - he also found himself on the wrong end of a rescue flight this year. Just goes to show that even the best aren't perfect.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but everybody knew where Doug's plane ended up. We had to worry and Sparky and J. C. for a day or two until they found them. Quick little story on that one, Sparky left his PLB and vest in his plane because J. C. had them in his plane (that crashed).

Instead of wearing the vest, J. C. had it hanging on his seat-back, ostenibly where he could grab it on the way out. Sparky said the fire was so hot they didn't have time to get the vest, just barely got out themselves. It's only survival gear if you're wearing it; if it's in the airplane but somewhere else, it's just camping gear.
 
wabower said:
Instead of wearing the vest, J. C. had it hanging on his seat-back, ostenibly where he could grab it on the way out. Sparky said the fire was so hot they didn't have time to get the vest, just barely got out themselves. It's only survival gear if you're wearing it; if it's in the airplane but somewhere else, it's just camping gear.
Click to expand...
That's a good point. I wish there was an affordable flotation vest with lots of pockets for survival gear that's comfortable to wear and made of Nomex. Kind of like Doug Ritter has in his custom kit, but affordable. That said, $800 for your life is pretty affordable, but...
http://www.aeromedix.com/product-ex...r_Essentials_Overwater_Aviator_Survival_Vest_
 
I bought the lightweight meshback from preparedpilot.com. Didn't get flotation, however, since over-water in N. TX isn't a major concern;)

gprellwitz said:
That's a good point. I wish there was an affordable flotation vest with lots of pockets for survival gear that's comfortable to wear and made of Nomex. Kind of like Doug Ritter has in his custom kit, but affordable. That said, $800 for your life is pretty affordable, but...
http://www.aeromedix.com/product-ex...r_Essentials_Overwater_Aviator_Survival_Vest_
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
I bought the lightweight meshback from preparedpilot.com. Didn't get flotation, however, since over-water in N. TX isn't a major concern;)
Click to expand...
Since our flights sometimes involve overwater (Bahamas, Lake Michigan, Alaska, etc.), flotation is an issue to us. I didn't see that they offered the version with flotation on PreparedPilot when I last looked. Maybe I missed it>
 
I don't remember either, since it was a non-issue. Maybe if they had a model with a retractable sun umbrella, however . . .

gprellwitz said:
Since our flights sometimes involve overwater (Bahamas, Lake Michigan, Alaska, etc.), flotation is an issue to us. I didn't see that they offered the version with flotation on PreparedPilot when I last looked. Maybe I missed it>
Click to expand...
 
alaskaflyer said:
I'm sorry, didn't someone just crash after failing to properly clear the airport obstructions? B)

If you are shorter than 2000 feet you need to go through the process to keep you alive in case of insufficient acceleration. Actually, you should do that on every takeoff but it is more critical under 2000 feet.
Click to expand...

Dateline: Sidnaw, MI, 2 or 3 years ago.

I landed a PA28-180 on much less than 2000 ft. I took off again too.

:D Point taken though.
 
Well, the other day I watched a King Air with one of my patients on board rotate at about 2850 on a 2900 foot airstrip. Someone wanna tell me that wasn't a short strip? :rofl:
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I liked the rule of thumb I read in Sparky Imeson's Mountain Flying Bible, page i-12. (POA Book Club book, and YES, I still have it and YES I'm still reading it!)

I think it would work anywhere, not just in the mountains:



Compute the number for your plane, have it in mind. The halfway point of any runway is easy to visualize, so this rule becomes easy and automatic to apply. Example: "Gauges green, airspeed alive, looking for 45 knots at the midpoint... NOPE! NO GO! ABORT!"
Click to expand...
I've got a copy of Sparky's book if anyone needs to borrow it.
:blueplane:
 
Just got an update about Doug Stewart from one of Doug's friends, Mark. He said that he just spoke with Doug and he's thrilled to report that Doug's spirits remiain high and he and his passenger are on the road to recovery. Anybody that wants to send an encouraging note to Doug can email him at doug @ dsflight.com

P.S.--During Mark's phone conversation with him, Doug said "The reason I survived is because the man downstairs isn't ready for the competition!". Mark added "that's why we love this guy!"
 
ejensen said:
Sparky's own story if you missed it last fall:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16587&highlight=sparky

Several good lessons in that one.
Click to expand...

Wow, reading that story, and how planes and helicopters flew over the BOTH of them several times without seeing them, makes me think that either some of those orange smoke canisters needs to be in my survival kit (on your person) or something... Sparky tried to get a fire going twice, for smoke signaling, when he saw a helicopter, but they were gone canvassing the area by the time he got it going.
 
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