A Brief History of Time (Pilots of America style)

Greebo

N9017H - C172M (1976)
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Retired Evil Overlord
Earlier last week I promised in my birthday thread (and don't think I won't get you for that) that I would post a brief history of the origins of Pilots of America.
Here, then, for your viewing pleasure, is my own perspective on the origins of and history of Pilots of America.

In late 2004/early 2005, trouble was brewing on the AOPA forum. The forum was dominated by non-aviation related posts, personal conflict, accusations of extreme unpleasantness, and the signal-to-noise ratio was getting worse and worse by the day.

Some individuals, myself included, who were in private contact with the forums primary advocate and administrator, got wind that the forums were in jeopardy and that some key AOPA figures were pushing for its shut down. Many other members were openly expressing disgust at the forums and were leaving or ready to leave. I was one of them. On the AOPA forums, I was attempting to make it clear without disclosing information trusted to me in confidence that the AOPA forums were in jeopardy.

As a thank you for my efforts, I was accused of just about everything from wanting the forums shut down, to trying to stifle free speech. I swear if they could have invented justification for it I'd have been accused of baby killing and child molestation too. That’s the kind of vitriol that was infused in the old AOPA boards at the time.

I don't know who learned first, but when I learned of this, I started contemplating whether a replacement forum would be tenable. Sometime in late January or early February of 2005, I was contacted by some of the other original Management Council members to discuss putting together a possible site as a haven for those who were tired of the atmosphere at the old forums.

I have been running technologically based message boards for over 20 years (ask Inav8r, he was a member on "The WoodShop", my first BBS). I have run small forums and large forums, even with thousands of members. I know when a board is in trouble, and AOPAs board was in trouble. So when the other future MC members contacted me, that convinced me that the time was right for an alternative, and I took the steps to move our discussions out of email and onto a real base of operations.

And so PilotsOfAmerica.com was born.

It never has been my intention to be a replacement for AOPA or even competition. It was only my intention at the time to be an alternative for those fed up with the downhill slide of what had been a great place to socialize in the past. It was also not my intention, nor has it ever been, to be the "Lord and Master" of the site. That doesn't work when it comes to online communities. What I wanted was to build the foundation for an online community that had an oversight committee responsible for the decision making. What I brought wasn't aviation experience or exceptional technology experience (at least, not related to supporting a forum), what I brought was 20 years of knowing what does and doesn't work in a virtual online community.

So when we set up the initial PoA site, it first existed as a semi-secret location for the future Management Council members to meet and plan. We did a LOT of talking. I wrote a LOT of material for PoA that the general public will never see, and we got a lot of good feedback from the founders. We were nearly ready to go live when word leaked out earlier than expected...

... and the flood began! :) 200 new user registrations on our first day, and that was before we even sent out our planned "official" notice.

After our initial launch, on April 8, 2005, AOPA announced that it would be closing its web board temporarily. When that announcement came out, PoA was well situated to act as a temporary "home away from home" for the AOPA users. The AOPA forum would remain closed until July 5th, 2005. But it would continue to struggle with non-aviation related topics.

While it has never been our intention to compete with AOPA, the ultimate decision at AOPA to allow only aviation related content has honestly been to our benefit. One of the strengths of our community here is that we treat non-AV content as the mortar that holds the bricks of our foundation together. Yes, we have our issues from time to time. Some topics are difficult for some people to stay calm and civil in, but so far our approach has, I think, worked extremely well, and our track record proves it.

There have certainly been internal problems from time to time as well. There have been changes in the Management Council over time, some of them the result of differences of opinion about how PoA should run, but *everyone* who serves or HAS served on the MC has had the best interests of PoA at heart. Today we have a Management Council that continues that tradition.

This brings me to the future.

As you may know, all documents and accounts for the site are in my name as the sole owner. While I'm not yet at liberty to share the details, I can tell you that work is in progress to convert Pilots of America into a registered Non-Profit Corporation. This has been an ongoing discussion in the Management Council, and this is the only issue on which I have ever executed an "executive veto". It is my firm conviction that becoming a properly organized independent entity is the only way to guarantee that Pilots of America will continue in perpetuity following its original intent and upholding its founding commitments and values.

Let me make this clear - I trust every one of the Management Council Members implicitly with all aspects of PoA. However, if we kept PoA as a sole-ownership organization, one day I would have to pass it along to someone, and some day it would get passed on again, and I don't trust the owners who would follow the owner who follows me (if that makes sense). Left as sole owner site, PoA could become a site-for-profit, maybe for good money, maybe for bad. I am committed to ensuring that never happens.

So, as I said, plans are underway to convert PoA to an NPC. More information on this will be made available as our resident attorney feels it is appropriate, but for now I wanted to at least touch on the future of PoA, because just like it did a little more than 2 years ago, the future is looking CAVU all the way.

As always,

Thank you all, from the bottom of my heart, for landing at Pilots of America.
Your virtual $100 hamburger on the internet.
 
By the way - your comments on or contribution to the history of PoA on this thread are very welcome. :D
 
Interesting, Chuck. There's lots of history there that I wasn't aware of!

I just looked and discovered that my join date was 2/23/05 which makes me an old-timer, I guess.

I've enjoyed this board, and I must say that you and the MC have done a really great job of putting it together and managing it.

Thanks, all!
 
Thanks for putting this together Chuck! And, thanks are due to all the members of the Management group that keep this running.

Seems as though we in the GA community are becoming an endangered species, so it is nice to have a place to share thoughts and meet some new people who share a common interest.

I do remember the trial and travails of the Red Board, I found it to be a great place and while the rude and crude remarks of some got ugly, I always felt that reflected the nature of the poster and not the AOPA community at large. I understand the reasons that AOPA did what they did, although I'm not happy about it.

Made a number of new friends from this board and the red board, which is what it's all about. Hopefully I'll get to meet some more!!

Gary
 
Who are the members of the Management Council? I know Chuck and Adam. Who else?
 
I've been here awhile and enjoyed it immensely. Much more congenial board with debates instead of attacks. I've really enjoyed meeting a lot of the posters on here and am looking forward to meeting more at Gaston's this year.

Best,

Dave
 
***Applause***
Interesting to read the history of this place. I enjoy visiting this site because of the people. It seems like POA has more real people on it than other flying related forums. Perhaps it's because of the size of this forum with somewhere around what, 1500 or so users, and for the most part it seems like there's about 100 or so of us that are regulars, and I'm happy that I know these people....some virtually, some I've talked to on the phone or met in real life.

I'm not one to delve into the politcal stuff...I read a lot of the political posts in spin zone or hangar talk, but rarely comment on them, for the reason that I don't want political views to taint my friendships with pilots. I'm glad that you have provided a place for pilots to discuss politics, and it's pretty impressive how for the most part, people keep their cool in these discussions, much more so than on AOPA's site, which even to this day, with the ban on non-aviation related stuff, people get pretty out of hand with their comments.

Anyway, thanks to you and all the other folks for your efforts. This place is great.
 
Thanks Chuck for the write up, and uh Sorry about that birthday thing lol.

I can honestly say that I find the site to be welcoming, entertaining, educational and fun.
As a "newbie" I look forward to supporting, and growing with PoA.
 
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showgroups.php

That give the full list of moderators and MC members. Although anyone on the MC is a moderator by default so really moxie is the only mod, and she only has rights to the Babes and Airplanes group which hasn't been used in ages...

Since you're documenting PoA history, a brief mention of the temporary hosting of the Babes and Airplanes group ought to be included.

How about a complete timeline from the first conceptual discussions through today with appropriate milestones beyond the obvious such as ISP and server moves, MC changes, membership growth, activity levels and spurts, hackings and crashes, major disputes etc.

Whoa, seems like you might need a full time PoA historian to log all that. I'd apply if I had the time (I don't), but if the position is still vacant when I retire in a few more years, I'd be willing to tackle it then.

BTW for those of you who haven't had the displeasure of participating in the all too common "boards gone wild" ultimate fate of the vast majority of "single purpose" forums, you might want to sample the true nature of the webboard world for a while. If you do I think you'll be amazed at how uniquely wonderful this place is (thanks in no small part to Chuck and fellow MCers).
 
Well, with regard to the Babes - I don't recall the exact timeline ... it was early. Basically Babes had a real sudden and urgent need for a short term home because they HAD to move to a new ISP. We made arrangements so that they could have their own corner here while they got the new digs set up. Nothing fancy really...

As for the other info... too much to collate for the most part, and I'm not at all interested in revisiting old disputes that are better left to rest.
 
Chuck:

Nice work!

/s/
 
I'd like to add my voice to those offering congratulations on a well run forum.
This is a nice community with great folks. And you guys on the MC are great hosts. Thanks Chuck, and the rest of the MC. :)
 
Great job Chuck and the rest of the MC'rs. It really is a nice place to hang out when not aviating. If I had wireless, I'd do it WHILE aviating.
 
Great job Chuck and the rest of the MC'rs. It really is a nice place to hang out when not aviating. If I had wireless, I'd do it WHILE aviating.
Hmm.

There's an idea for a new NAV/COM device!
 
Impressive. I started looking back through old posts. Its amazing how to see how everyone progressed from the early days until today, where many of the soft spoken fellows are now the most outspoken (and in my case, boisterous at times).

We've had numerous students turned private turned instrument pilots, and I'll bet a few turned commercial as well.

We had the old reputation system, with the old wars for ultimate reputation, we had the old "who gets to 1000 posts besides Greebo" challenge, we had the organization and planning of the 2nd Gastons (the first of PoA's existence), there was the first Wings FlyBQ.

An airport was reopened by a member, with a fly in to celebrate the reopening. There was numerous meet and greets. Lots of posts by the midwest folks that started with "I'm flying on Saturday, who wants to meet somewhere," and turned into 3 or 4 page fests of "ooh, lets do breakfast!"

Let's not forget the pancake flyins also!!

Numerous charities have been supported here - from Light the Night to the PanMass challenge.

A few of the members have been featured in magazines like EAA Sport Pilot, AOPA Pilot, Twin Turbine, AOPA Flight Training, and I'm sure others as well.

This group is stronger than any other aviation group I've seen, and that comes from the strength of its members. This community is unparallelled anywhere else, regardless of the connecting topic behind the community.

Medical Topics, Student Questions, Pilot Questions, Stories of Pilot Failures and procedures, FAR Questions, Off Topic Discussions, its all welcome here, and very rarely gets out of hand.

Most questions are not only answered successfuly, but the source behind the answer is given. How amazing is that?

The few arguments between the MC and the community were short lived. Usually stemmed from a few weeks, or months of frustration which would bubble up, and then calm down after it was aired by the members which cared the most.

The best part about the MC's actions is that most of their decisions were logical and thought out, and while some people disagreed with the decisions, they were evenly applied and enforced, often breeding respect between the members and the MC.

But in reality, the few arguments that have come up have been far outshadowed by the number of great posts we've had here. I think it is important to thank not only Greebo, but the rest of the founding members of PoA: Bruce Chien, Mike Andrews, Ken Ibold, Brian Austin, and Chip Gibbons. Most of whom have moved out of the MC for various reasons, but still played a huge part in the making of the site.

But, most importantly, is the community. The biggest thanks should go to the members of the board, the unity formed here is all on the community.

So, from me, a big thank you to everyone here for making this site not suck. Woohoo!
 
BTW for those of you who haven't had the displeasure of participating in the all too common "boards gone wild" ultimate fate of the vast majority of "single purpose" forums, you might want to sample the true nature of the webboard world for a while. If you do I think you'll be amazed at how uniquely wonderful this place is (thanks in no small part to Chuck and fellow MCers).

Yes, this place is wonderful!

What's kinda funny is that I also had some inside info about AOPA shutting down, and I was starting to think about what to do afterwards. I decided that if the board really was going to shut down, that I'd contact none other than Chuck H. and Brian Austin and maybe the three of us could start a new board... :rofl:

Of course, they beat me to it and didn't wait for the fate of AOPA. Kudos, guys. :yes:
 
I can't give you the origin of date of Babes. However, on September 11, 1999 I became -- as I recall -- the 42nd member. Tom Downey, I think, could give you accurate data because I believe he was one of the early birds. Moxie, MAJ, Tom Downey, CarolT, and a couple others were the beginners -- but I'm only trying to remember -- aging process, you know.

HR

Ironically -- correct me if I'm incorrect -- Babes was an "answer" to some EGOs on the Red Board. Whenever Moxie or a couple other lady pilots would post a comment there would be a "know-it-all"(or few) who would come back with a snide remark about "these babes and their airplanes". And so was born.....
http://babesandairplanes.com.

EDIT; The "moving to a new ISP" was a disaster which shouldn't have happened; and it was after several years of operation. Again, I'm trying to remember, but it seems that the ISP carrying Babes made changes that happened before Moxie had sufficient warning. Suddenly, we were dark; and in the process a voluminous Photo Gallery was lost.

Until such time as a new server was aligned, PoA was gracious to allow Babes an avenue to continue. Note that on the Babes main page will be found a Pilots of America LINK.

Two class acts: Babes and Airplanes, and Pilots of America(listed alphabetically). Anyone should feel free to correct any of my information which may be erroneously stated.
 
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Basically Babes had a real sudden and urgent need for a short term home because they HAD to move to a new ISP.
That sounds about right Chuck. I think I came over here about that time. For a while I thought I was the only one who had never been a participant in the old AOPA board since, as I understand it, the Babes are also an offshoot from there.

I think this place is great. I have met some very cool people over the past couple years, seemingly one by one, since I have not been able to make any of the big events. Hopefully that will come sometime in the future. :yes:
 
Chuck, an official thanks to you and the MC'ers for the work and I'm sure many long hours keeping this site what it is.
I was on the red board when it went from bad to worse and was grateful to find a place where I can com to ask questions, answer questions (with my relative limited knowledge :)) and basically just enjoy the company.
I would have never had the pleasure of meeting all the folks at Gastons last year were it not for this board. I'm looking forward to renewing those times in a few months.
You know, there really aren't that many places where this many folks can come together and genuinely enjoy each other's virtual company.
However, POA has bucked the norm and for that I say thanks.
 
Another great and pretty unique aspect of this online community is that many of us actually get out an meet others in the same group. And when they do, there are few if any unpleasant surprises.
 
I came along in June of '05, talking to Diana about Gastons. I didn't make it that year, but I did next. I seem to recall that I was trying to get Leslie hooked up with Babes and Airplanes around that time; it all starts to merge after a while! :) I want to pass along my thanks to the entire MC, past and present, for the wonderful work they do. I also want to thank those who post here, for without postings, this would not be a community!

I do hope that PoA gets not-for-profit status so I can give more and deduct it! LOL!

And Nick, you mentioned a bunch of the wonderful things that have come from those associated with PoA, but left out two that I think are really important. In no particular order, they are your own www.goflyamerica.com ConUS Challenge, and the wonderful www.PilotCast.com.

Congratulations everyone, and THANKS!
 
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showgroups.php

That give the full list of moderators and MC members. Although anyone on the MC is a moderator by default so really moxie is the only mod, and she only has rights to the Babes and Airplanes group which hasn't been used in ages...

Hey, those of us babes really apreciate the little corner you let us have when our board was down. We may not use the corner now that our board is back up, many have stayed here too.

Missa
 
This is a great place to hang out and chew the airplane fat. The people are wonderful too. In fact we all like this place so much we should do something to show what a great place it is. Now here is an idea, not sure if this has been thought of before, but wouldn't it be great if we had, I dunno, shirts?? ;)
 
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This is a great place to hang out and chew the airplane and fat. The people are wonderful too. In fact this we all like this place so much we should do something to show what a great place it is. Now here is an idea, not sure if this has been thought of before, but wouldn't it be great if we had, I dunno, shirts?? ;)
Scott... it's time for you to go stand in line and wait your turn...

311.beating.gif


:goofy:
 
You are so going to have your postcount set to -5000, Scott! :p
 
I do hope that PoA gets not-for-profit status so I can give more and deduct it! LOL!

Grant,

I highly doubt PoA will be a 501(c)(3) non-profit (the tax-deductible variety). Most likely, it'll be a 501(c)(7) "club" which is not tax-deductible. Other examples of 501(c)(7)'s would be things like flying clubs, fraternities, and possibly even AOPA or EAA. Many of the above have an associated 501(c)(3) for certain activities which fit the definition of charity, an example would be the AOPA Air Safety Foundation.

Nice try though. ;)
 
Kent: I'm pretty sure you're correct. Adam has advised me that 503c3 isn't likely, and I think he said what we'd be was a 503c7.

I dunno, its all legaleze to me. Adam will be putting together more formal info when he's ready.
 
Grant,

I highly doubt PoA will be a 501(c)(3) non-profit (the tax-deductible variety). Most likely, it'll be a 501(c)(7) "club" which is not tax-deductible. Other examples of 501(c)(7)'s would be things like flying clubs, fraternities, and possibly even AOPA or EAA. Many of the above have an associated 501(c)(3) for certain activities which fit the definition of charity, an example would be the AOPA Air Safety Foundation.

Nice try though. ;)
Yeah! :) I was hopeful, though!
 
This is a great place to hang out and chew the airplane and fat. The people are wonderful too. In fact this we all like this place so much we should do something to show what a great place it is. Now here is an idea, not sure if this has been thought of before, but wouldn't it be great if we had, I dunno, shirts?? ;)

GROAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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