62 year old with no savings?!

Henning said:
No, we are taking responsibility only for the welfare of those who would become our progeny. There are better universes to come into.
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Wow, do you have medical insurance to help when you bumped your head while banned?
 
My business partner that is our CFO and a CPA insists that money in the bank is working for someone else. He has rental property, vacation homes, farm, cattle, etc. Very little cash on hand.
I on the other hand, like carefully chosen investments and a lot of available cash. Who is right? Let you know in twenty years...LOL
 
177mike said:
My business partner that is our CFO and a CPA insists that money in the bank is working for someone else. He has rental property, vacation homes, farm, cattle, etc. Very little cash on hand.
I on the other hand, like carefully chosen investments and a lot of available cash. Who is right? Let you know in twenty years...LOL
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Well, first off you've been here quite a while, and this is your first post?

Wassup with that doood? :D Just funnin ya.

I'm going to go with your partner is the one who is right. While the actual buying power of the dollar has declined steadily since the mid-1800s, the value(in terms of real dollars and also in terms of direct value) of property has steadily gone up.

This isn't hard to track. I have a lot of real property. If I had stayed in cash and negotiable securities and stuffed it in a bank paying intersest for the same time, I would be way, way behind in value.

YMMV, objects in mirror are closer, pro driver closed course, don't try this at home, and may cause anal leakage.
 
177mike said:
My business partner that is our CFO and a CPA insists that money in the bank is working for someone else.
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I am with your business partner.

I have $500 in "savings". Seriously. Really just keep that because it's linked to our checking account to cover any accidental overdrafts.

But plenty of "liquid assets" that could be converted to cash with a phone call or the click of a mouse. And lines of credit for immediate needs or emergencies.

Cash comes in, it gets reinvested forthwith.

Remember, cash is a depreciating asset, due to inflation.

But whatever lets you sleep at night.
 
FastEddieB said:
I am with your business partner.

I have $500 in "savings". Seriously. Really just keep that because it's linked to our checking account to cover any accidental overdrafts.

But plenty of "liquid assets" that could be converted to cash with a phone call or the click of a mouse. And lines of credit for immediate needs or emergencies.

Cash comes in, it gets reinvested forthwith.

Remember, cash is a depreciating asset, due to inflation.

But whatever lets you sleep at night.
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Given the choice, we saved for retirement AFTER the children were through college, which we paid for at the time.

However, we made it our goal to have a working farm that would give us something real (besides paper backed by the full faith of the US Gov't - which means mroe paper) that we could use to generate revenue for the rest of our lives, then turn it over to the children for their lives.

Money is just paper anymore. Without a gold standard it's nothing but dead trees.

When the collapse comes, our paper money will be worthless,, unless we use it fire our wood burning generator.
 
Florida Cracker said:
When the collapse comes, our paper money will be worthless,, unless we use it fire our wood burning generator.
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The only proof of your farm being yours is a piece of paper at the courthouse. When the fianancial collapse happens, nothing will keep the government from attaching a lien to your property to make sure that you 'do your fair share' towards bailing them out.
 
I strongly suspect that the collapse will take the big benefit will be the disappearance of the entire federal branch like in the old USSR. Goodbye you mother****ing IRS, TSA and DC.
 
weilke said:
The only proof of your farm being yours is a piece of paper at the courthouse. When the fianancial collapse happens, nothing will keep the government from attaching a lien to your property to make sure that you 'do your fair share' towards bailing them out.
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Yep. This has happened many times in history. Before WWII my mothers family was very wealthy in Germany. Large land holdings, big house. After the war destitute. Property lines and ownership meant nothing.


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RalphInCA said:
Yep. This has happened many times in history. Before WWII my mothers family was very wealthy in Germany. Large land holdings, big house. After the war destitute. Property lines and ownership meant nothing.
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Your example of Germany is not as true as you might think. I've been through that as well with the war, and those who had land holding before the war that they could prove had nothing to do with Jewish seizures were left alone as far as W Germany was concerned. I don't know what they did in E Germany. In fact, most land offices which weren't damaged kept their records intact and protected land owners from foreign investors looking to steal property. There were some issues with land along the Austrian and Swiss borders that may have been in dispute but most of the land holdings in W Germany that had provenance never had trouble. There was a lot of property that was seized from the Jews over the years before the war that was a complete mess to sort out. Mainly because most of the Jews were dead.
 
docmirror said:
Your example of Germany is not as true as you might think. I've been through that as well with the war, and those who had land holding before the war that they could prove had nothing to do with Jewish seizures were left alone as far as W Germany was concerned. I don't know what they did in E Germany. In fact, most land offices which weren't damaged kept their records intact and protected land owners from foreign investors looking to steal property.
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There is however a parallel in post-war west germany. It was the 'Lastenausgleichsgesetz'. Anyone who owned real estate during the war and did not suffer a certain amount of damage from allied bombings or war action on his land was assessed a penalty of 50% of the properties value. This penalty was payable in 120 quarterly payments spread over 30 years (late 40s into late 70s). Those who had suffered damage during the war (burned out buildings etc.) received payments out of this pot and were able to rebuild their real estate and businesses. As a result, when the recessions of the early 60s and 70s hit, those with now pre-war depreciated real estate continued to pay while those who had received payments were able to collect lease payments on their modern post-war buildings.

There was a lot of property that was seized from the Jews over the years before the war that was a complete mess to sort out. Mainly because most of the Jews were dead.
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This was a big issue in east germany. After the reunification, all takings by the nazis against jewish owners were eligible to be reversed. Takings perpetrated during the soviet administration period (late '45-'48) were immune from reversion (this was a condition of the soviets to sign off on the 4+2 contracts). Takings committed by the east german government (mostly involving companies and farms) were eligible for reversion. Some pieces of industrial property had been through all three.
 
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weilke said:
There is however a parallel in post-war west germany. It was the 'Lastenausgleichsgesetz'. Anyone who owned real estate during the war and did not suffer a certain amount of damage from allied bombings or war action on his land was assessed a penalty of 50% of the properties value. This penalty was payable in 120 quarterly payments spread over 30 years (late 40s into late 70s). Those who had suffered damage during the war (burned out buildings etc.) received payments out of this pot and were able to rebuild their real estate and businesses. As a result, when the recessions of the early 60s and 70s hit, those with now pre-war depreciated real estate continued to pay while those who had received payments were able to collect lease payments on their modern post-war buildings.
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I'm aware of it, but I wasn't going to go into excruciating detail on assessments and land ownership from the war costs.

Frankly, the assessment is something I can get behind. Every German paid the price for their war, and the design of this assessment was to insure that wealthy land owners, families like IG Farben and Krupp steel help more than their fair share to rebuild what they had such a hand in damaging. At the end of the war, Farben was very wealthy(in terms of land, factories, and foreign accounts, including in the US). Those 'war profiteers' were hit the hardest, and rightly so.

Back to the US situation; If, or when the hammer goes down in the US, property records are kind of a weird situation, since there never was a Kaiser or King in the US which all land devolved from. If one goes back far enough, all land in the US 'belonged' at some point to the indians(native Amer). In theory, once a state joined the union, all lands became open to squatters, or those with a prior claim, which would be settlers who staked a claim on land prior to the US becoming a nation(or a state became a state).

And that's all I'm going to go on about that. Owning a modest amount of land already, it's something I've looked into pretty carefully. If the hammer goes down, and the revenuers come looking for my land, some of them are going home in a bag before they take it.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
It is not my problem but I hadn't realized that even "well off" people are living paycheck to paycheck. There needs to be some emphasis on financial planning in schools. These two individuals are going to get to tome hard years later in life and not have a safety net.
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Fiscal education won't fix it. Checkbook math isn't that difficult nor is simple interest.

ClimbnSink said:
Stoicism is the answer. Course there is no GDP growth with stoicism, so don't tell anybody. Forget you read all that. Now get back to work, there is a woman somewhere that wants a new trinket for her suburban castle. And a banker that will loan you the money to buy it.:D
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If there is one piece of advice I would give any young people it's that above. Don't marry someone who can't stop spending and needs things to be happy. You'll have a much better life.


Henning said:
There is no need to force upon people what what you lead them to desire, that's what advertising and media are what they are. It isn't done through force, it is done through lies selling you the dream of a better life. If you drink this beer, you'll get these tits, if you drive this car, you'll get this *****.
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I know you like to blame the business people and marketing folks, but there's no excuse for anyone who claims to be an adult not to easily see through that.

In fact I can't think of anyone who doesn't make fun of that sort of advertising. It's not the cause of their persona overspending. They know they didn't get the boobs the first time they bought the beer.

Claiming everyone else is stupid isn't the answer, but it's your go-to.

azure said:
There are exactly 4 WalMarts in VT, and lots of people who live far enough from one to not have any way of getting to them. I have not seen any that deliver around here.



This is a state that fights hard to keep cheap national brands out - in the name of boosting the local economy - yet their kids go to bed hungry every night.
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Tough place to grow old, sounds like. Or grow anything. Like you say, it's a deliberate choice.
 
denverpilot said:
Fiscal education won't fix it. Checkbook math isn't that difficult nor is simple interest.




If there is one piece of advice I would give any young people it's that above. Don't marry someone who can't stop spending and needs things to be happy. You'll have a much better life.





I know you like to blame the business people and marketing folks, but there's no excuse for anyone who claims to be an adult not to easily see through that.

In fact I can't think of anyone who doesn't make fun of that sort of advertising. It's not the cause of their persona overspending. They know they didn't get the boobs the first time they bought the beer.

Claiming everyone else is stupid isn't the answer, but it's your go-to.




Tough place to grow old, sounds like. Or grow anything. Like you say, it's a deliberate choice.
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It's not about blaming the people for not seeing through it, they lack the option not to participate, and lack the capacity to self moderate. 80% of the species is stupid, and the .0002% know that well and follow P.T. Barnums teachings making full use of that fact. That is why mankind needs better leadership and option in financial market. Without those two, mankind will follow the path of greatest profit right into extinction.

You think savings and investment are security, but they are not because the basis of our entire economy is a figment of imagination, a creation based only in faith, and that faith is in a global Ponzi scheme that is tenuous at best.
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
No.....you may want to read more while turning off your TV.
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What, and quantity, of what I read has no impact on my acquaintance list. You may want remember that reading is fundamental and reread what I typed in response to your comment.
 
Henning said:
No, do you have it for when you want your head extracted out of your ass?
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Yes, thank you for your concern. You may want to consider healthgov or some such organization to help with your needs.
 
docmirror said:
If, or when the hammer goes down in the US, property records are kind of a weird situation, since there never was a Kaiser or King in the US which all land devolved from. If one goes back far enough, all land in the US 'belonged' at some point to the indians(native Amer).
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Before the Revolution all land in the colonies was property of the Crown. Grants were given to people in favor (like Billy Penn.)

BTW, Who owned it before the "indians" got here?
 
paflyer said:
Before the Revolution all land in the colonies was property of the Crown. Grants were given to people in favor (like Billy Penn.)

BTW, Who owned it before the "indians" got here?
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All the land owned by the crown in the colonies was about 16% of what the US is today. I don't own any land that was a crown colony. However, I do own land that was clearly settled by indians. I'm not giving that back to them without a fight either.

Whomever were the indigenous people, if there were any. So far in N America I'm not aware of any pre-indian human remains, but haven't made a big study of it. Not aware of any Cro-Magnon, or Australopithecus ancestry in N America, but of course I could be wrong.
 
denverpilot said:
Tough place to grow old, sounds like. Or grow anything. Like you say, it's a deliberate choice.
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I think it was Climb'nSink who said that. For most, I suspect it is. The state has a very high proportion of back-to-the-landers who thrive in the pro-small agriculture business climate.

I also gather it's relatively easy to go off the grid here, as the grid is spotty in a lot of areas anyway. If you're on the grid though, energy costs are way above the national average. Natural gas for heating is only available in and around Burlington and maybe in some isolated spots scattered around the state.

It's also one of the most extreme examples of a nanny state. Lots of laws governing what you can and can't do for your own safety. Cars have to meet annual inspection standards - and it's *not* just emissions. Extremely high property taxes - $2500 for a one-bedroom cottage, that sort of thing. For a decent-sized house, I've heard $12,000, depending on the town and school district.

A lot of people leave to get away from this, but a lot can't. Living hand to mouth is the rule here, and it's simplistic to blame poor financial planning.

Not surprising, there isn't a lot of recreational aviation here. Although my home base is about 10 straight line miles away, I rarely hear planes overhead. (In fairness though, both Rutland and Burlington are more active. But fly into NH or CT or even MA, and the difference becomes immediately apparent.)
 
pilot_dude said:
Yes, thank you for your concern. You may want to consider healthgov or some such organization to help with your needs.
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I'll worry just plenty about my needs, why don't you tend to yours and shut the **** up about mine.
 
paflyer said:
Before the Revolution all land in the colonies was property of the Crown. Grants were given to people in favor (like Billy Penn.)

BTW, Who owned it before the "indians" got here?
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The concept of ownership of natural resources is basically blasphemy.
 
When you create a society based on victimizing people, you have a society where people are trained and encouraged to make bad decisions. You say that people should exert self control, but there's 500 channels out there telling them not to, and a Ponzi economy that will collapse if they ever do. Our currency value is based in the faith that people will spend it. If people don't always spend more and more money, the entire economy collapses because it is based on consumerism. We are no longer a producer nation, our economy is driven by the consumption of goods and services, and is paid for with money that was pulled out of someone's ass. They type in an extra billion dollars, and instantly we pay for them and start paying interest on them. They have nothing to do with the government except in directing them. We do not control them, they control us. They are The Federal Reserve, and they are the exact same families and money the Founders fought a revolution to escape.

We have become exactly the nation the founders were trying to avoid having, and it was the result of the Civil War when Junius Spencer Morgan, Rothschild's man in the Western Hemisphere, was able to introduce European Central Bank (read the banks of the noble family wealth, a system that was formed to secure the wealth accumulated by Divine Right after the system of Absolute Monarchies was failing post Magna Carta) capital and financial markets used to leverage that wealth into absolute power.

We believe we have "free markets", but we don't, because they are all indentured to the same monied families. What you don't understand is that the American Revolution wa finally lost in 1913 with the surrender document otherwise known as The Federal Reserve Act, and basically everything you believe about America is a lie.
 
FastEddieB said:
I am with your business partner.

I have $500 in "savings". Seriously. Really just keep that because it's linked to our checking account to cover any accidental overdrafts.

But plenty of "liquid assets" that could be converted to cash with a phone call or the click of a mouse. And lines of credit for immediate needs or emergencies.

Cash comes in, it gets reinvested forthwith.
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When TSHTF, as in 2007/8, lines of credit get pulled because banks "don't want to take the risk" and "liquid assets" sell at a 40% discount right to those who have cash ready to be buying. ;)

FastEddieB said:
Remember, cash is a depreciating asset, due to inflation.

But whatever lets you sleep at night.
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Remember, when there's a panic, all correlations go to 1.

I sleep well at night. :yes:
 
177mike said:
My business partner that is our CFO and a CPA insists that money in the bank is working for someone else. He has rental property, vacation homes, farm, cattle, etc. Very little cash on hand.
I on the other hand, like carefully chosen investments and a lot of available cash. Who is right? Let you know in twenty years...LOL
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There is at least on Billionaire that got really pounded in the 80's as he was fully invested and leveraged in real estate. He had to start over but now will talk about learning his lesson
 
rpadula said:
When TSHTF, as in 2007/8, lines of credit get pulled because banks "don't want to take the risk" and "liquid assets" sell at a 40% discount right to those who have cash ready to be buying. ;)



Remember, when there's a panic, all correlations go to 1.

I sleep well at night. :yes:
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When TSHTF you can use your paper to burn and keep you warm. I can grow corn, beans, whatever on my land. Ever heard of the Reichsmark? :rofl:
 
rpadula said:
When TSHTF, as in 2007/8, lines of credit get pulled because banks "don't want to take the risk" and "liquid assets" sell at a 40% discount right to those who have cash ready to be buying. ;)

Remember, when there's a panic, all correlations go to 1.

I sleep well at night. :yes:
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Karen had a friend who was a real estate developer in Knoxville. He was highly leveraged, and when things turned sour in 2007/8 he was driven into bankruptcy.

For conservative investors, it was just a hiccup. I, for one, was not driven to sell at discounts, and still had lines of credit open to me. I continued to acquire investments, as I do in both up, down and flat markets. That sort of hiccup presents buying opportunities, and the benefit of dollar-cost-averaging one's investments.

I've been warned of pending financial Armageddon since at least the early 70's. Though it's always a possibility, forgive me if I take such warnings with a grain of salt.
 
docmirror said:
When TSHTF you can use your paper to burn and keep you warm. I can grow corn, beans, whatever on my land. Ever heard of the Reichsmark? :rofl:
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Meh, I was just talking about run of the mill stock market panics.

If I want more doom and gloom, I just peruse Zerohedge. :lol::rofl:
 
The guy that is "right" in the investment game is the guy who has made himself food, water, and energy not only self sufficient, but provider of abundance to support a community. That is how you survive extinction.
 
Listening to pilots giving financial advice is like listening to computer geeks giving advice about women.
 
General Aviation A&P/IA seems to be the norm, 62 years old with no savings.
 
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