"3rd Class Medical

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JohnWF

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John at Salida
I allowed my 3rd class medical to expire since I am flying an LSA and don't really need it.

I am 82-years old; weigh one pound more than I did at age 17; have no known medical problems except I need and use glass as required for driving.

I am thinking of renewing my 3rd class just to remove the altitude restriction that is associated with using my driver's license in lieu of the 3rd class medical, but don't want to take the risk that there might be something I am unaware of.

Is it ethical or even possible for an AME to give me an exam with no FAA paperwork to see if I could pass if I formally applied and took the exam?
 
I don't know the answer to that. But I'm wondering, maybe you can just get a CFI to give you a logbook endorsement for the altitude? I don't think that's possible; but I'm thinking of how a CFI can give a Sport Pilot a Class B endorsement. So maybe there's also an altitude endorsement?
My understadning is, a Sport Pilot cannot fly above 10,000 feet MSL (or 2,000 feet AGL if that is higher than 10,000 feet MSL in that particular area of terrain).
 
JohnWF said:
Is it ethical or even possible for an AME to give me an exam with no FAA paperwork to see if I could pass if I formally applied and took the exam?
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Yes. This is known as a consultation visit.

The good AME's will allow you to make an appointment without any paperwork or completing MedXpress beforehand.

If you have one of these, set up such an appointment. If he looks you over and says you would pass, then you can complete MedXpress and go official.

Or....

Go ahead and do MedXpress (http://medxpress.faa.gov), fill out all the information. But after you click on the SUBMIT button, slow your jets and don't leave the page until you find an icon labeled EXAM SUMMARY. Click that button to open a PDF verision of the 8500-8 form.

Save that file to your hard drive. Also print out a copy.

At the bottom of the two pages will be a confirmation number. This is the number that the AME uses to find your submission in the system and is considered as your signature. Using scissors, cut both of the numbers off of the page and put in your wallet.

When you go for your consult, hand the print out less the confirmation numbers to the AME. Have him do the exam.

If he says, "sorry, there is something that prevents issuing your 3rd or puts you at risk for denial", DO NOT HAND OVER THE NUMBERS, thank him, and go enjoy your LSA privledges.

If he says "there are no problems and I can issue you your 3rd class", then, and only then, do you hand over the confirmation numbers and go LIVE with the exam.

There is no penalty to not handing over the numbers and keeping the exam as a consultation. The information you put into MedXpress will evaporate after 30 days.

But as soon as you hand over the confirmation number, the exam is considered LIVE and can only result in an issuance or denial. And you don't want the latter.
 
JohnWF said:
Is it ethical or even possible for an AME to give me an exam with no FAA paperwork to see if I could pass if I formally applied and took the exam?
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My own quick glance through the Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners didn't turn up any prohibition or "reporting" requirements on such consultations. If a doctor acting as a treating physician also happens to be an AME and finds something wrong that would disqualify you for a medical, he or she doesn't appear to be under any requirement to report it to anyone in the FAA.

Also - AOPA allegedly has a service of some sort for this sort of consultation.

EDIT: Since my own AME has performed such a consultation with me and this site advertises such confidential pre-exams, I would say all you need to do is locate an accommodating AME.
 
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John at Salida- why don't you outline what you think are the issues for you at my email from this site, which works.... :)
 
Dr Bruce,

I have no indication of anything that might disqualify me for a 3rd class medical, its just that the problems that entail failing one and getting into the quagmire of special issuance is something so dreary that I don't want to take even a small chance inasmuch as the only present benefit of reestablishing my 3rd class is to remove the 10,000 altitude restriction when using the privileges of a Sport Pilot...in other words, this is just as minor thing to be gained at the risk of a really major problem.

Do you agree with the above poster about clipping the numbers off the MedExpress forms and getting a 'test' exam?

John
 
JohnWF said:
Dr Bruce,

I have no indication of anything that might disqualify me for a 3rd class medical, its just that the problems that entail failing one and getting into the quagmire of special issuance is something so dreary that I don't want to take even a small chance inasmuch as the only present benefit of reestablishing my 3rd class is to remove the 10,000 altitude restriction when using the privileges of a Sport Pilot...in other words, this is just as minor thing to be gained at the risk of a really major problem.

Do you agree with the above poster about clipping the numbers off the MedExpress forms and getting a 'test' exam?

John
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Wouldn't it be easier to just call an AME, explain the situation, and schedule a non-FAA examination/consultation that mimics a real one? Then only if all is well, do the paperwork.

-Rich
 
JohnWF said:
Dr Bruce,

Do you agree with the above poster about clipping the numbers off the MedExpress forms and getting a 'test' exam?

John
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:D :D It was Bruce that provided this idea originally :yes: :yes:
 
Well, Rusty, around here 10,000-ft isn't too high...the local airport is 7,523 and just up the valley at Leadville the PATTERN altitude is 10,700-ft.

Getting out of the valley would have been impossible under the initial ruling of 10,000 (period) until the FAA added, or 2,000-ft above terrain.

Mountain flying is a bit different.
 
JohnWF said:
Well, Rusty, around here 10,000-ft isn't too high...the local airport is 7,523 and just up the valley at Leadville the PATTERN altitude is 10,700-ft.

Getting out of the valley would have been impossible under the initial ruling of 10,000 (period) until the FAA added, or 2,000-ft above terrain.

Mountain flying is a bit different.
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I recently moved to Georgia from western Montana, 95% of my time so far has been in the Montana/Idaho/Washington rockies/Cascades. I was usually 10,000 to 12,500 on XC trips so I understand.

But, with 10,000' peaks all around, I always wondered about the 2,000' rule, I wasn't limited by it so I never researched it.

Do they expect you to follow the contour of the earth or can you just be 2,000' above say the max height listed in the squares on the sectional?
 
JohnWF said:
Dr Bruce,

I have no indication of anything that might disqualify me for a 3rd class medical, its just that the problems that entail failing one and getting into the quagmire of special issuance is something so dreary that I don't want to take even a small chance inasmuch as the only present benefit of reestablishing my 3rd class is to remove the 10,000 altitude restriction when using the privileges of a Sport Pilot...in other words, this is just as minor thing to be gained at the risk of a really major problem.

Do you agree with the above poster about clipping the numbers off the MedExpress forms and getting a 'test' exam?

John
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Well, if you have to do that you are seeing the WRONG AME. WRONG WRONG WRONG. But if that sort of AME is all you can find....you might just do that. That WAS my idea for the guys who are desperate. Many AMEs though will not tolerate that and you are shown the door. Not much lost, though.

OR. You can just go to a good one.

I just got a call from a guy at GJT who is going to drive out for his renewal in May. This is his second trip. I'm astonished. But it means that much to him.

By the way, I've been in at Peonia, LXV, the Butte, TEL, ASE, GWS and I have a lot of respect for the guys who do that usually on about 50 net horsepower. I had 440 on tap. It still gave me pause.
 
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That's a bit blurred, so I have understood it to mean 2,000-ft above the earth under you.

We have 14,250-ft or so peaks, so if you decided to go directly over them you would be well over 16,000...I do have oxygen and use it if need be

I too was in Western Montana at FCA, now GPI, for a number of years, but the terrain around her is a bit more of a challenge.
 
JohnWF said:
That's a bit blurred, so I have understood it to mean 2,000-ft above the earth under you.

We have 14,250-ft or so peaks, so if you decided to go directly over them you would be well over 16,000...I do have oxygen and use it if need be

I too was in Western Montana at FCA, now GPI, for a number of years, but the terrain around her is a bit more of a challenge.
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I preferred S27 when I went to Kalispell.
 
Thank you for the suggestions and help. After thinking it over carefully I have decided to await the FAA decision on the EAA/AOPA proposal ... if that were to be approved I would have to do nothing. If it denied I will see an AME for a consultation to see if there might be something that would be a problem. That would give me time to correct things and be 'clean' to later take the official FAA medical exam.
 
JohnWF said:
Thank you for the suggestions and help. After thinking it over carefully I have decided to await the FAA decision on the EAA/AOPA proposal ... if that were to be approved I would have to do nothing. If it denied I will see an AME for a consultation to see if there might be something that would be a problem. That would give me time to correct things and be 'clean' to later take the official FAA medical exam.
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You have a long wait then, and lots of time to address your health issues.

As Dr. Bruce has repeatedly said, the change to the 3rd class medical as EAA and AOPA proposed ain't gonna happen. see the various threads on this on the AOPA board for background info.
 
JohnWF said:
Thank you for the suggestions and help. After thinking it over carefully I have decided to await the FAA decision on the EAA/AOPA proposal ... if that were to be approved I would have to do nothing. If it denied I will see an AME for a consultation to see if there might be something that would be a problem. That would give me time to correct things and be 'clean' to later take the official FAA medical exam.
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Even the ladies at the AOPA medical desk will tell you "Oh that thing is NEVER going to happen". I think Craig Fuller is beyond comical- he's been destructive, JUST BECAUSE he raises such hopes in an airman like John....

sigh.
 
bbchien said:
Even the ladies at the AOPA medical desk will tell you "Oh that thing is NEVER going to happen". I think Craig Fuller is beyond comical- he's been destructive, JUST BECAUSE he raises such hopes in an airman like John....

sigh.
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Are you going to come up to DuPage Thursday night to tell him that? Mike, Scott, Katie, Leslie and I are going to get together afterwards for dinner! You (and Susan!) are welcome to join us!http://www.aopa.org/prez/events.html
 
gprellwitz said:
Are you going to come up to DuPage Thursday night to tell him that? Mike, Scott, Katie, Leslie and I are going to get together afterwards for dinner! You (and Susan!) are welcome to join us!http://www.aopa.org/prez/events.html
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Just got home, where I was addressing the Bloomington IL EAA chapter.

Craig. jeez. I have nothing at all to say to him.
 
bbchien said:
Just got home, where I was addressing the Bloomington IL EAA chapter.

Craig. jeez. I have nothing at all to say to him.
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Sounds like one job that I worked at. The company was bought by this guy, and he was a slimeball with no business ethics.

When I quit shortly thereafter, I cited exactly that as my reason for leaving. This HR drone asked me in my exit-interview "Would you like to talk to the owner about any concerns you have?"

I just said "I don't think that would be productive." Mainly because every time I was in the same room with the guy I felt like I had to take a shower afterwards.
 
John, I can understand why you would want the 10,000ft cap lifted out there, I spent a good amount of my time between 12-14k the times I was out there.

Do you still have that annoying auto AWOS on the CTAF that butts in at the worst time?
 
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