2015 F150

[narchee]

The good point with the diesels is that resale is consistently much higher. So if you intend to sell at some point let's say in the next five years even with the increased up front cost it can save you money getting the diesel. This is besides the performance advantage if you're hauling/towing.

 

[Alexb2000]

Car sales people are….. stupid. I told these guys yesterday I had a lot going on today and I would need to see all the financial options so I could make a decision and do the paperwork quickly. Quickly is the word I emphasized several times. This isn't that hard, X plan pricing less rebates, lease options, finance options. TWO HOURS to even see the choices. Lots of, "let me go ask my manager". All new car deals are the same, there isn't any magic, the only thing that differentiates is customer service or lack there of.

I'm still shopping…

 

[jesse]

Car sales people are….. stupid. I told these guys yesterday I had a lot going on today and I would need to see all the financial options so I could make a decision and do the paperwork quickly. Quickly is the word I emphasized several times. This isn't that hard, X plan pricing less rebates, lease options, finance options. TWO HOURS to even see the choices. Lots of, "let me go ask my manager". All new car deals are the same, there isn't any magic, the only thing that differentiates is customer service or lack there of.

I'm still shopping…

I *almost* bought a new car once. Glad I didn't...

Before I went I looked at the new models that company made. Figured out which one I would want.

Walked in and handed them a printed spreadsheet and told the sales guy that what is on that spreadsheet determines if I buy. He told me it didn't work like that - I walked out. About two weeks later he called and said he could make that sheet work now...at which point I already decided I didn't want one since I came across a solid car for $1,000. Had he made the offer when I was standing there I would have bought. Oh well.

 

[Henning]

Car sales people are….. stupid. I told these guys yesterday I had a lot going on today and I would need to see all the financial options so I could make a decision and do the paperwork quickly. Quickly is the word I emphasized several times. This isn't that hard, X plan pricing less rebates, lease options, finance options. TWO HOURS to even see the choices. Lots of, "let me go ask my manager". All new car deals are the same, there isn't any magic, the only thing that differentiates is customer service or lack there of.

I'm still shopping…

There's actually a parlay of stupidity creating a compounding effect. There is not only sales person stupidity, there is management stupidity as well. Not all dealerships have good management and don't give the sales person the ability to do anything off the script without consulting.

 

[Alexb2000]

I *almost* bought a new car once. Glad I didn't...

Before I went I looked at the new models that company made. Figured out which one I would want.

Walked in and handed them a printed spreadsheet and told the sales guy that what is on that spreadsheet determines if I buy. He told me it didn't work like that - I walked out. About two weeks later he called and said he could make that sheet work now...at which point I already decided I didn't want one since I came across a solid car for $1,000. Had he made the offer when I was standing there I would have bought. Oh well.

There's actually a parlay of stupidity creating a compounding effect. There is not only sales person stupidity, there is management stupidity as well. Not all dealerships have good management and don't give the sales person the ability to do anything off the script without consulting.

So the sales guy texts me, doesn't call, texts me and says he spent a lot of effort looking for a truck and he is confused why I am upset over spending two hours to see a lease rate. I told him, "OK it's my fault. It just didn't work out". He says, "OK Thanks". Ha, OK, well, there you go.

Doubled down on sixteen with the dealer showing an ace kind of stupidity.

Now we'll wait for the managers call…..

 

[BillTIZ]

Tundras hold value even when wrecked... 2010 and newer with the big gas engine and mashed in the nose still bring 10k or more at Copart and IAA.

I have a 2007 Tundra, first year of the BIG tundra.
Still over $12K trade in value with 100K miles.

 

[BillTIZ]

I *almost* bought a new car once. Glad I didn't...

Before I went I looked at the new models that company made. Figured out which one I would want.

Walked in and handed them a printed spreadsheet and told the sales guy that what is on that spreadsheet determines if I buy. He told me it didn't work like that - I walked out. About two weeks later he called and said he could make that sheet work now...at which point I already decided I didn't want one since I came across a solid car for $1,000. Had he made the offer when I was standing there I would have bought. Oh well.

I walk the lot on a Sunday, dealership closed, and find what I want. Call the Internet/fleet sales manager the next day. Introduce myself, I'm interested in X or Y truck. Cash sale. We chat a bit. Last time I was offered "invoice cost minus $1K" and he emailed me the invoices for both.

I called him back an hour later, I'll take X. Can you have it ready today? Great, I'll be there by 4PM. Walk in, meet the Internet sales manager, look over the truck, yes that's the one. 1hr later, paperwork complete, check written. Oh, I ended up with invoice minus $2K. We were both retired military.

I do not play the take all day games with Jr. salesmen. They play games I walk, there are other dealerships and other deals out there.

 

[Henning]

I have a 2007 Tundra, first year of the BIG tundra.
Still over $12K trade in value with 100K miles.

You only have 100k on an 8 year old truck?

 

[Bill]

You only have 100k on an 8 year old truck?

If you like that, my 2001 F-150 only has 103500!

 

[SoonerAviator]

Father's '99 F-150 has less than 90K, lol. My 08 has 115K, and it's a daily driver.

 

[Alexb2000]

You guys need to get out more!

 

[Bill]

You guys need to get out more!

I get out plenty, but I split my miles between two cars, a truck, a motorcycle, and a bicycle.

I used to commute almost exclusively by motorcycle, and during the period I've owned the F-150 I've put 125k+ on a couple of bikes.

My commute these days is only 3mi each way, and in good weather ride my bicycle.

 

[Alexb2000]

I get out plenty, but I split my miles between two cars, a truck, a motorcycle, and a bicycle.

I used to commute almost exclusively by motorcycle, and during the period I've owned the F-150 I've put 125k+ on a couple of bikes.

My commute these days is only 3mi each way, and in good weather ride my bicycle.

I was just kidding. I was going to recommend some of you hit the Indian casinos just to get out of the house.

 

[N747JB]

That's pitiful! This business isn't that hard, it's the guys that work in it that make it hard!

Car sales people are….. stupid. I told these guys yesterday I had a lot going on today and I would need to see all the financial options so I could make a decision and do the paperwork quickly. Quickly is the word I emphasized several times. This isn't that hard, X plan pricing less rebates, lease options, finance options. TWO HOURS to even see the choices. Lots of, "let me go ask my manager". All new car deals are the same, there isn't any magic, the only thing that differentiates is customer service or lack there of.

I'm still shopping…

 

[Henning]

If you like that, my 2001 F-150 only has 103500!

I've got you all beat! I have a 1996 Passat VR6 with 34,7xx miles on it! It's my mom's old car. when she traded her 73 Mercedes 280 in on it it had 115,000 on it.

 

[Bill]

I've got you all beat! I have a 1996 Passat VR6 with 34,7xx miles on it!

I had a '93 Passat GLX VR6, fun to drive, but a totally quality nightmare. By the time it was two+ years old[1], my monthly repair bills were higher than my monthly payments. At a little over 50,000mi it blew the end tank off the radiator in rush hour traffic leaving me sitting on the 805 in Sandy Eggo. Of course that repair was expen$ive, as the entire front clip had to be taken off to get at the radiator. As soon as it was repaired I traded it off.

Every now and then I'm tempted by the GTI, and yes, maybe VW has improved in 20+ years, but I am still tainted by that experience.

[1] VW warranty was 2/24 at that time.

 

[Grum.Man]

The only things I have heard and seen on the ecoboost is the lousy gas mileage. You get a lot of power but you pay for it at the pump. My uncle is a farmer and goes through trucks pretty quickly, his last one was an ecoboost his next will be the 5.0.

All the recent test show the Silverado/Sierra with the 6.2 is faster, stronger, and gets better fuel economy than the 3.5 EB. I suspect if you drive carefully and live on flat land the 3.5 might hit it's fuel economy rating. Otherwise it will be a hog.

 

[denverpilot]

I am planning on picking up a new truck tomorrow or the next day. Been a few years (2005) since I bought a Ford after the challenges with the diesels I backed off. Anyway, the market is moving so fast that you really need to look at all the options. I've decided to try gas mainly for the mileage, fuel cost (gas vs. diesel), and complexity of the newest diesels.



Anyway not 100% done, but we'll see.



Thoughts, advice, comments, anything productive?

Watch the weights ON THE STICKER IN THE DOOR carefully if you're going to tow.

Most of the BS on the manufacturer's websites is built around very specifically ordered trucks without ANY of the interior goodies.

Fords particularly are very very light in payload right now in the F250 series. But all the half tons are also very limited if you're going to tow *legally*.

Lots of discussion about this on various RV trailer forums. You almost HAVE to special order to get a truck that'll tow large trailers. Very rare to find the correct packages on dealer lots. And the dealers will flat out LIE to you to sell the trucks. "It'll pull it!"

Yeah. It'll pull it. No problem. And be a thousand pounds over the gross payload of the truck.

Almost every... And I'm not kidding... EVERY single rear wheel drive truck you see pulling a toy hauler fifth wheel down the road is anywhere from 500-1500 over their placards for hitch weight. The truck will be rated to tow the gross weight but NOT rated to have that much pin weight in the bed after you load the cab with dad, mom, the kids, a dog, the cooler, and fill it with fuel.

People do it. I wouldn't stake my life on it. Busted springs suck and brakes that won't stop the rig if needed in a panic stop aren't too much fun either.

As far as diesel vs gas. If you're going to tow heavy stuff, get the diesel. You'll thank me for that later. Ford seems to have worked out most of the problems on the 6.7. Chevy has certainly worked out all of theirs since they haven't changed anything in a long time. Dodge doesn't seem to have large problems on their 6.7 either. The Dodge transmission or new turbo may show problems in a few years but no one knows.

 

[denverpilot]

The only things I have heard and seen on the ecoboost is the lousy gas mileage. You get a lot of power but you pay for it at the pump. My uncle is a farmer and goes through trucks pretty quickly, his last one was an ecoboost his next will be the 5.0.

Ford still doesn't rate the EcoBoost as their "fleet" engine. That says a lot. The fleet engine is still the 5.0 and it's a damn solid engine.

 

[nddons]

There's an RV Trailer forum? Wow, now that's got to be exciting. Do they have a Spin Zone?

 

[nddons]

The only things I have heard and seen on the ecoboost is the lousy gas mileage. You get a lot of power but you pay for it at the pump. My uncle is a farmer and goes through trucks pretty quickly, his last one was an ecoboost his next will be the 5.0.

All the recent test show the Silverado/Sierra with the 6.2 is faster, stronger, and gets better fuel economy than the 3.5 EB. I suspect if you drive carefully and live on flat land the 3.5 might hit it's fuel economy rating. Otherwise it will be a hog.

That's my issue. Now, I'm not getting what I had hoped, but I still think it's marginally better than the 5.0. I had the 5.0 in two Expeditions, including my wife's current Expedition. It's a great engine.

I rarely tow anything, so this engine has so far performed fine, despite wishing for another 3-4 mpg.

 

[denverpilot]

Testament to Cummnis that I have 3 of the 2013 6.7L's for nearly a year and no demand for them, and the price has been dropped several times.

This. ^^^

But frankly I'll stick with the older truck for now. No DEF. No stupid EGR to delete. No problems other than me blowing the head gasket and that was from the former owner's incorrect install of an aftermarket turbo.

I had to look long and hard what vehicle to tow with after we blew the thing up going to/coming from OSH last year.

I decided $11K into the engine rebuild and rebuilding the steering/front end on the 2001 Dodge, plus new exhaust manifold and a bunch of upgrades, was money well spent to not have DEF and all the emissions silliness. Redid the air intake to the 'BHAF' style (Big Honking Air Filter) with a nylon sock so it can suck down as much air as it wants, and kept the old add on computer for 150 more HP in tow mode. We talked about putting an even larger turbo on it but I have the light cased Cummins and the diesel guy said there'd be no doubt of a guaranteed case crack if I push the boost any higher. (He would happily swap the engine for a heavy cased one if I wanted to whip out the checkbook for that. Haha.)

You also can't get a manual transmission anymore from anyone. And I like my manual for towing. A lot! Especially with the add on exhaust brake. Grab a gear, pull the switch on the brake, and it'll come downhill under control and happy, easy.

Sure it'd be nice to have a little quieter cabin and what not, but it's not $40K worth of upgrades. And all that stuff adds WEIGHT. I wanted the thing to TOW heavy stuff. I have a car for putzing around town in.

 

[denverpilot]

There's an RV Trailer forum? Wow, now that's got to be exciting. Do they have a Spin Zone?

A number of them really. Usually based on RV brand.

Greg here on PoA pointed me to www.keystonerv.org a while back and lots of good info there for Keystone brands.

No SZ, heavily moderated, in the case of that one, but there's all kinds. It's hard to not find a forum for just about anything you like doing these days, really.

 

[Bill]

Yeah. It'll pull it. No problem. And be a thousand pounds over the gross payload of the truck.

To tow safely, one has to be within all three of these specs:

GVWR
GCVWR
Specified max trailer weight and/or frontal area

As Denver says, most folks bust GVWR without knowing it.

 

[denverpilot]

"The dealer(s) said my half ton would tow this 40' toy hauler with integral fuel tanks and two Harleys in back, with the water tanks full and all my SnapOn tools in toolboxes in the back to fix anything wrong on my bikes, juuuuust fine! He said I'll just need to get some good airbags."

Beat. Head. Here.

 

[N747JB]

That must be one LIGHT toy hauler!!!
I tell people all the time, just because you can pull it, doesn't mean you should! It's different if you are moving a big trailer once a year, but pulling something like you described a minimum of a one ton and most likely a dually if you are towing it any distance!

"The dealer(s) said my half ton would tow this 40' toy hauler with integral fuel tanks and two Harleys in back, with the water tanks full and all my SnapOn tools in toolboxes in the back to fix anything wrong on my bikes, juuuuust fine! He said I'll just need to get some good airbags."

Beat. Head. Here.

 

[Henning]

I had a '93 Passat GLX VR6, fun to drive, but a totally quality nightmare. By the time it was two+ years old[1], my monthly repair bills were higher than my monthly payments. At a little over 50,000mi it blew the end tank off the radiator in rush hour traffic leaving me sitting on the 805 in Sandy Eggo. Of course that repair was expen$ive, as the entire front clip had to be taken off to get at the radiator. As soon as it was repaired I traded it off.

Every now and then I'm tempted by the GTI, and yes, maybe VW has improved in 20+ years, but I am still tainted by that experience.

[1] VW warranty was 2/24 at that time.

Yeah, I have concerns with the transmission in this one, I'll probably trade it off in the next few weeks.

 

[N747JB]

Ford still doesn't rate the EcoBoost as their "fleet" engine. That says a lot. The fleet engine is still the 5.0 and it's a damn solid engine.

It is a good engine and it's cheaper than the 5.0 by about 1 AMU! Fleet applications can be as much about the drivers as about the vehicle. If someone is prone to abuse a vehicle, I think the 5.0 would be cheaper to keep up vs a 3.5.

 

[denverpilot]

That must be one LIGHT toy hauler!!!
I tell people all the time, just because you can pull it, doesn't mean you should! It's different if you are moving a big trailer once a year, but pulling something like you described a minimum of a one ton and most likely a dually if you are towing it any distance!

Yep. We see people pop up in the RV forum regularly that overbought on their trailer without planning for an (often expensive) upgrade to their tow vehicle, or who think they can pull a large fifth wheel with a half ton, and then realize they're screwed. All the RV trailer manufacturers have "Hal ton towable" fifth wheels but when you start to look at the GVWR numbers, you quickly realize that the trailer manufacturers and dealers are full of it.

It is a good engine and it's cheaper than the 5.0 by about 1 AMU! Fleet applications can be as much about the drivers as about the vehicle. If someone is prone to abuse a vehicle, I think the 5.0 would be cheaper to keep up vs a 3.5.

I can't figure out which you're saying you like, but I'd buy a Coyote 5.0 in a heartbeat. I would like to *think* Ford has knocked out most of the birthing pains on the EcoBoost but I don't get a warm and fuzzy on that. But I KNOW they've got the Coyote right. That little beastie just runs and runs.

A friend of mine ordered up just the right Coyote powered F-150 and a VERY light and short fifth wheel and he's right at the limits of the truck but it pulls and keeps up very well with even the big diesels in all but the worst mountain conditions.

The Coyote variable cam/valve stuff and that transmission paired up with it is a really nice setup if you have to stay in a half ton. He added on some gadgetry to watch the computer do all the timing advance and fiddle with the valve timing in real time and it's fascinating to watch all the computers do their thing.

 

[N747JB]

I prefer the EcoBoost personally, but for a some one that abuses one, I think a 5.0 may hold up better. I bought a new Transit van for my parts department with a standard 3.7 V6 over the 3.5EB, cost was one thing, we don't need additional power and the mileage of the less powerful engine is better. I also tend to keep them to 400K miles.
Very few 1/2 ton trucks will tow a fifth wheel, maybe a very light one, but between the weight and frontal area drag, it takes a lot of juice to pull one, especially at highway speed or in hilly terrain. I don't think I've ever sold an F-150 for a 5th wheel.
If someone is pulling a Bobcat, large boat or large tractor once or twice per year, they can get by with a 1/2 ton, but if they are doing it monthly, they need a 3/4 ton.

Yep. We see people pop up in the RV forum regularly that overbought on their trailer without planning for an (often expensive) upgrade to their tow vehicle, or who think they can pull a large fifth wheel with a half ton, and then realize they're screwed. All the RV trailer manufacturers have "Hal ton towable" fifth wheels but when you start to look at the GVWR numbers, you quickly realize that the trailer manufacturers and dealers are full of it.




I can't figure out which you're saying you like, but I'd buy a Coyote 5.0 in a heartbeat. I would like to *think* Ford has knocked out most of the birthing pains on the EcoBoost but I don't get a warm and fuzzy on that. But I KNOW they've got the Coyote right. That little beastie just runs and runs.

A friend of mine ordered up just the right Coyote powered F-150 and a VERY light and short fifth wheel and he's right at the limits of the truck but it pulls and keeps up very well with even the big diesels in all but the worst mountain conditions.

The Coyote variable cam/valve stuff and that transmission paired up with it is a really nice setup if you have to stay in a half ton. He added on some gadgetry to watch the computer do all the timing advance and fiddle with the valve timing in real time and it's fascinating to watch all the computers do their thing.

 

[Alexb2000]

Just closed on a 4x4 crew Lariat 3.5 EB. I paid x plan ($48K), $1000 truck month rebate, 5 yr. 100K Ford warranty for $1100, and 2% for 60 months through USAA. I looked at every dealer (and there are a lot in and around DFW) within 300 miles. NO other trucks that come close to the above spec. Many 5.0's no EB, that seems to be the item in hot demand.

I finally drove one today also. Coming from 15 years of diesels, I loved it. Lots of low end torque and none of this high revving stuff. Quiet, well finished, comfortable, and lots of tech that seems simple to use. Just having a hands free cellular function that works will be great.

Anyway, if any of you are looking they are really impressive and much improved.

Good times.

 

[Bill]

Just closed on a 4x4 crew Lariat 3.5 EB.
Good times.

Congrats, enjoy the new truck!

 

[denverpilot]

Congrats. Truck is still better than a car any day. Heh.

 

[N747JB]

Glad you got one! I would have offered to help, but I don't have any 4X4's in stock, mine are either pre-sold or sell within a day or two! I just need more of them!

Just closed on a 4x4 crew Lariat 3.5 EB. I paid x plan ($48K), $1000 truck month rebate, 5 yr. 100K Ford warranty for $1100, and 2% for 60 months through USAA. I looked at every dealer (and there are a lot in and around DFW) within 300 miles. NO other trucks that come close to the above spec. Many 5.0's no EB, that seems to be the item in hot demand.

I finally drove one today also. Coming from 15 years of diesels, I loved it. Lots of low end torque and none of this high revving stuff. Quiet, well finished, comfortable, and lots of tech that seems simple to use. Just having a hands free cellular function that works will be great.

Anyway, if any of you are looking they are really impressive and much improved.

Good times.

 

[Alexb2000]

Congrats, enjoy the new truck!

Congrats. Truck is still better than a car any day. Heh.

Glad you got one! I would have offered to help, but I don't have any 4X4's in stock, mine are either pre-sold or sell within a day or two! I just need more of them!

Thanks, I haven't bought a new truck since my Dodge 2500 in 2007 so it's exciting.

John- I would have liked to use you as well. I figured from your comments demand is well outstripping your supply. That and I'm sure you can get a premium for those that you do have. I really appreciate your advise.

 

[N747JB]

I'm sure you'll enjoy it!

Thanks, I haven't bought a new truck since my Dodge 2500 in 2007 so it's exciting.

John- I would have liked to use you as well. I figured from your comments demand is well outstripping your supply. That and I'm sure you can get a premium for those that you do have. I really appreciate your advise.