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jw1441

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jw1441
I am a beginner pilot- no private license yet.

I want a plane for monthly trips of 150 miles and will take longer trips ie 400 miles every other month.

Any thoughts re Cessna 172 versus Cessna 182 versus Piper Archer? Several people have said the 182 is too much plane for a beginner, therfore dangerous. Other friends said "you will hate a 172 with a 40mph headwind" therefore buy a 182 or equivalent.
 
There's no reason a new pilot can't successfully operate a 182. Just need a high-performance endorsement, which is not a big deal.

Gotta look at budget, how much useful load you need, what kind of speed you want to pay for and what kind of weather conditions you want to travel in to decide what the right aircraft is...
 
thank you

my budget is about 80k

I will not be hauling much - me and wife with 2 suitcases at most

I don't see me ever needing to fly in inclement weather, but would like to be able to fly in clouds.

I live in Kansas- the farthest I would want to fly regularly is about 400 naut miles.
 
jw1441 said:
thank you

my budget is about 80k

I will not be hauling much - me and wife with 2 suitcases at most

I don't see me ever needing to fly in inclement weather, but would like to be able to fly in clouds.

I live in Kansas- the farthest I would want to fly regularly is about 400 naut miles.
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Of course if you want to fly in clouds, you'll need an instrument rating...

You can find a good IFR-equipped 182 for substantially less than 80k.

There are a lot of 172s out there, too. Slower and not as good a climber as a 182, but lower acquisition and operating cost. A 172 with a 180 HP conversion climbs quite a bit better than a stock 150 HP one, but is still slower than a 182. Depends on how big a hurry you're in to get somewhere.

Just a suggestion - before you commit to buy, make sure your spouse is really comfortable in a small general aviation plane. Maybe have her ride along when you do a cross-country with your instructor.
 
Which part of KS, JW?
 
jw1441 said:
I am a beginner pilot- no private license yet.

I want a plane for monthly trips of 150 miles and will take longer trips ie 400 miles every other month.

Any thoughts re Cessna 172 versus Cessna 182 versus Piper Archer? Several people have said the 182 is too much plane for a beginner, therfore dangerous. Other friends said "you will hate a 172 with a 40mph headwind" therefore buy a 182 or equivalent.
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This aircraft has "YOU" written all over it.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1215197.html
 
With a 80k budget, I would definitely look at a Mooney or Bonanza, not 182. Just look at the cruise speed numbers. And they may end cheaper to operate too (although the insurance is probably a murder for fresh pilot on them, until you get hours). In fact, I'm looking at older Bo's with a 40k budget right now, and I only have 78 hours.

Actually, I would ask your CFI in your shoes. Just ask him, "do you think I can handle Mooney M20E w/o speed brakes". If he says yes, there you go. Older CFIs have an eye for students.

-- Pete
 
jw1441 said:
thank you

my budget is about 80k

I will not be hauling much - me and wife with 2 suitcases at most

I don't see me ever needing to fly in inclement weather, but would like to be able to fly in clouds.

I live in Kansas- the farthest I would want to fly regularly is about 400 naut miles.
Click to expand...

You don't need to spend the full 80k to accomplish your goals. A 182 carries way more than you need; a 172 appears to be a better fit for the distance and load. I don't think you'll find a big time savings, particularly if most trips are 150 NM.

If you really think you need the speed, consider a used RV-6A, 7A, or 9A. Plenty fast and just right for 2 people and a couple bags. A 182 within your budget would be slower than any of those RVs - it would haul more than you need, though.
 
Dude, you gotta man up, I know a GIRL that bought a 182 and learned from lesson one in it.
 
Jim Logajan said:
You don't need to spend the full 80k to accomplish your goals. A 182 carries way more than you need; a 172 appears to be a better fit for the distance and load. I don't think you'll find a big time savings, particularly if most trips are 150 NM.
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But the 182's extra cabin width is nice if you're broad-shouldered.
 
If 172's are so damn wonderful, why do most of the owners wish they had a 182?

You may be all lathered up about RV's, but some people aren't particularly interested in buying an airplane that some guy built in his garage. Especially a low-wing cramped up green-house. I'm in that group.

87628]You don't need to spend the full 80k to accomplish your goals. A 182 carries way more than you need; a 172 appears to be a better fit for the distance and load. I don't think you'll find a big time savings, particularly if most trips are 150 NM.

If you really think you need the speed, consider a used RV-6A, 7A, or 9A. Plenty fast and just right for 2 people and a couple bags. A 182 within your budget would be slower than any of those RVs - it would haul more than you need, though.[/QUOTE]
 
I will be going Hutch to Hays, occasional trips to Peoria, Illinois.
 
Trapper John said:
What if he wants to get a commercial certificate? Can't do the performance manuvers in a 182.
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If a person is going for a commercial cert, they'll probably be getting a CMEL as well, so you just do the ME ride first then you can take the CSEL in a fixed gear plane.
 
wabower said:
If 172's are so damn wonderful, why do most of the owners wish they had a 182?

You may be all lathered up about RV's, but some people aren't particularly interested in buying an airplane that some guy built in his garage. Especially a low-wing cramped up green-house. I'm in that group.
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And if the 182 v. 172 decision were a slam dunk, Cessna wouldn't have built 40,000+ 172s and they wouldn't still be building them today.
 
I know that some suggest buy your last plane first but when you are starting you don't know what you like and you probably aren't sure of your typical mission either.
 
Trapper John said:
He didn't. I'm just pointing out that there are things you can do with a 172 that you can't with a 182.
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But you can do chandelles and lazy-8s in a 182. You can't spin one but that's not a commercial maneuver.
 
Trapper John said:
He didn't. I'm just pointing out that there are things you can do with a 172 that you can't with a 182.
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like aerobatics and commercial
or multi engine, or sea plane (yes you can) if you have floats, or glider
lol
 
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jw1441 said:
I am a beginner pilot- no private license yet.

I want a plane for monthly trips of 150 miles and will take longer trips ie 400 miles every other month.

Any thoughts re Cessna 172 versus Cessna 182 versus Piper Archer? Several people have said the 182 is too much plane for a beginner, therfore dangerous. Other friends said "you will hate a 172 with a 40mph headwind" therefore buy a 182 or equivalent.
Click to expand...

Archer is a good choice for low timer imho. Decent performance nos.

A 172 is a decent starter plane, but it's true you'll be wishing for more speed if you're in the habit of flying long x/c.

Cardinals are nice, having put 700+ hrs on one, but most on the market are way overpriced and will cost more to operate and maintain without that great of an increase in performance (fixed gear version) over a 172. Save your money for flying.

A 182 are fine, but the extra speed and payload will cost more to operate and maintain. Save your money for flying.

IAW, save your money for flying. Gas and maintenance won't be getting any cheaper any time soon.

After you get some real hands-on experience then decide whether you need more. There's no rule that says you can't buy a 2nd plane later. There's that insurance thing, too.

Just my 2¢
 
He said he lives in Kansas. What's so tough about figuring out where you're going from there? I lived there for 30 years. Wherever you go for 400 miles from central or eastern KS looks the same.

I also flew a lot of ~400 nm trips, including a 4-year weekly commute. If I had to do it again, a 172 wouldn't be on the list of choices. A 182 wouldn't be at the top of the list either, but JW says he's going to make a lot of shorter trips as well, so trip time differences shouldn't be a biggie.

alaskaflyer said:
I know that some suggest buy your last plane first but when you are starting you don't know what you like and you probably aren't sure of your typical mission either.
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alaskaflyer said:
I know that some suggest buy your last plane first but when you are starting you don't know what you like and you probably aren't sure of your typical mission either.
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Then again, one of the people I met recently was training (at a flying club) when he bought his own M20J w/ speed brakes. He hammered the operations for it into his brain, and loves it. His instructor was more than a little nervous at first, switching so fast to a complex plane.

He's done well, I guess, he hasn't pancaked himself anyway. He's working on his IFR now. Granted, this guy is a bit older and pretty cautious. He does like his plane though, and I can't blame him.
 
wabower said:
He said he lives in Kansas. What's so tough about figuring out where you're going from there? I lived there for 30 years. Wherever you go for 400 miles from central or eastern KS looks the same.

I also flew a lot of ~400 nm trips, including a 4-year weekly commute. If I had to do it again, a 172 wouldn't be on the list of choices. A 182 wouldn't be at the top of the list either, but JW says he's going to make a lot of shorter trips as well, so trip time differences shouldn't be a biggie.
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Since when is the pilot the decider on future trips that a couple will make? :dunno:

Couple dozen hours on the private and he might be reduced to flying round the pattern on Sunday afternoons by himself. Don't even need a 172 for that.

On the other hand their dream might turn into monthly trips to the cottage on the Vineyard :ihih:
 
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When I was at the Cessna factory, Dwayne Wallace told me it was the damndest thing he ever saw. They really didn't think they would sell many 172's but their order book was swamped with roughly 38,000 orders from 182 owners who wanted to trade down.

Trapper John said:
And if the 182 v. 172 decision were a slam dunk, Cessna wouldn't have built 40,000+ 172s and they wouldn't still be building them today.
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Whatever you decide on, make sure it's comfy for your wife. The 182 really has an edge here, plenty of room, easy to get in and out of, enough room for 'stuffs'. If you buy an older one, consider putting in a new interior in, womensfolk like nice-stuff that smells good :wink2: .

You may want to solo in a school owned 172. Then transition into your own 182 to do cross-countries, instrument instruction and the night flights. That way, by the time you are heading for the checkride, you have the 10hrs or so dual the insurancerequires anyway.

Given the amount of usage you mention, getting into an existing partnership may be a good option for you. This may allow you to get into a nicer plane than one you can swing yourself. If that is something you would consider, dont limit yourself on the type of plane. The money you save on fixed expenses every year could more than make up for the cost of additional training, e.g. to get into a T206, Cirrus or a Bonanza.
 
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tonycondon said:
and you can't do your commercial checkride in a 182 either
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Why not???? I did my Comm ASEL in a 150 hp 172 with fixed gear.....of course I did my Comm AMEL in a retract first. Since we are already making him a commercial pilot, we might as well assume he is going to be a twin driver!
 
weilke said:
Whatever you decide on, make sure it's comfy for your wife. The 182 really has an edge here, plenty of room, easy to get in and out of, enough room for 'stuffs'. If you buy an older one, consider putting in a new interior in, womensfolk like nice-stuff that smells good :wink2: .

You may want to solo in a school owned 172. Then transition into your own 182 to do cross-countries, instrument instruction and the night flights. That way, by the time you are going for the checkride, you are going to have the 10hrs or so dual the insurance is going to require anyway.

Given the amount of usage you mention, getting into an existing partnership may be a good option for you. This may allow you to get into a nicer plane than one you can swing yourself. If that is something you would consider, dont limit yourself on the type of plane. The money you save on fixed expenses every year could more than make up for the cost of additional training, e.g. to get into a T206, Cirrus or a Bonanza.
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The question is though, "Would it be your best value"? Among other things it will help reduce your next insurance premium as you'll be that many hours closer to 100 and that is the magic number for insurance in type.

The real issue though is that the 172 and 182 fly significantly different enough that learning to land a 172 first and then switching while still low time is a waste of a couple of hours of flying and just as likely if not more so to result in damage than just going with the 182 from lesson one.
 
Steve said:
Cardinals are nice, having put 700+ hrs on one, but most on the market are way overpriced and will cost more to operate and maintain without that great of an increase in performance (fixed gear version) over a 172.
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Overpriced? Is that just the fixed gear 177s? I've seen alot of good deals on 177RGs lately.

The 177RG is probably the best combination of load, speed and cost of operation of any 4 place singel I've seen.
 
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1215197.html

Fixed gear = lower insurance, faster than the 172, less fuel burn than the 182, easier access, better visibility, great radios, low TT, good paint/interior. with in his budget.

What's not to like?
 
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Fearless Tower said:
Overpriced? Is that just the fixed gear 177s? I've seen alot of good deals on 177RGs lately.

The 177RG is probably the best combination of load, speed and cost of operation of any 4 place singel I've seen.
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I always liked the 177RG for visibility. If I was setting up another photo ship, that's what I'd go with.
 
Air Associates of Kansas at Johnson County in Olathe,KS has newer 172,182,206 and Corvallis 350 for rent. Consider going up in the different types with one of their instructors to get a feel for the differences in performance and room.
 
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