1st Bonanza flight

[LvPilot]

I finally flew a complex/high performance aircraft this weekend. My FBO has a beautiful '69 Bonanza in perfect condition. What a great machine and a perfect weekend to fly! It almost made me a low wing convert ... but what is it with the low wing design that they can't have two doors? It is really frustrating when you are used to Cessnas with two doors and windows that open.

 

[spiderweb]

Very easy to fall in love with a Bonanza. There's a F33 on field in which I have a few hours. Some Bonanzas do have two doors, but not a pilot-side door. Sorta wierd.

 

[gismo]

I finally flew a complex/high performance aircraft this weekend. My FBO has a beautiful '69 Bonanza in perfect condition. What a great machine and a perfect weekend to fly! It almost made me a low wing convert ... but what is it with the low wing design that they can't have two doors? It is really frustrating when you are used to Cessnas with two doors and windows that open.

Well for one thing a Bonanza with two front cockpit doors would be twice as likely to have one pop open at rotation.

Seriously though, there are plenty of high wing airplanes without two doors, and many low wings with two (or none ala Tiger/Yankee). I think Beech chose a single door for several reasons including lower weight, stronger cabing structure, and less wind noise.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

My A-36 has three doors

There is one over the wing on the right side of the plane; then, two double doors behind the wing to get in back. It's like a small station wagon if you take the two rearmost seats out; or, a six seater with smaller folks in back. Tne A-36 does 180 true and mine is a little faster than that. Wind noise is a real consideration as is leakage. Hard to keep the pacs in back toasty in winter with all sorts of air leaks up front. It certainly is a little less convienent, but one gets used to it and I'm happy to have the better speed and quieter cabin.

Best,

Dave
A-36TN ADS

 

[Jim Chumley]

Danny,

At one time, I and one other fellow owned a Beech Debonaire, a 1965 model 35-C33. The Deb is the first straight tailed Bonanza, 225 HP. It remains my favorite airplane. I have never had better landings, consistently. It carries four with bags very comfortably and I could always flight plan at 150 mph. My C33 had aux tip tanks so you could fly for a long time before having to stop for fuel - or fly shorter legs and carry more bags. The single entry door was never a problem as it can be with others. Once you've flown a Bonanza....

Jim

 

[LvPilot]

My A-36 has three doors

There is one over the wing on the right side of the plane; then, two double doors behind the wing to get in back. It's like a small station wagon if you take the two rearmost seats out; or, a six seater with smaller folks in back. Tne A-36 does 180 true and mine is a little faster than that. Wind noise is a real consideration as is leakage. Hard to keep the pacs in back toasty in winter with all sorts of air leaks up front. It certainly is a little less convienent, but one gets used to it and I'm happy to have the better speed and quieter cabin....

sounds very nice, Dave! how about fuel .. what kind of gph do you get?

 

[LvPilot]

... Once you've flown a Bonanza....

Jim

.. and now I know why

 

[Bonanza]

sounds very nice, Dave! how about fuel .. what kind of gph do you get?

I have a 1968 E33C Aerobatic Bonanza. Serial # CJ1 it was the prototype for only about 20 of that model that were ever built. I upgraded to the IO-550, 300hp engine. I usually plan on about 13gph for normal cruise at about 180 kts true which reduces to about 11 gph above 10,000'
Bonanza's are aircraft that you simply fall in love with. I have had mine for about 12 years now and every time I think about changing I can't think of anything I would want to change to so I just throw some more money into it. As for the single door, yes it is not the easiest of planes to get into, especially for the ageing mother in law, but then that can be quite an advantage !!!
Stephen.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

sounds very nice, Dave! how about fuel .. what kind of gph do you get?

Danny:

I have a hybred plane; so, fuel burn is unusual. The normally aspirated A-36 burns high 20s per hour in takeoff to keep cylinders cool. Then, high teens to low 20s in cruse depending on altitude and power setting. Some have smaller tanks, but most have 80 gallon tanks with 74 useable. Generally, one can plan on 4 plus total time unless you're vey low at high power.

My plane was upgraded to an IO-550 and turbonormalized. In addition, it has GAMI jectors and a JPI engine analyzer. To keep my cylinders cool with the turbo, takeoff and climb is at low to mid 30s (gallons per hour). When it's hot and I make a sustained climb, it can burn a lot of fuel. Once established in cruise, I leave the throttle wide open, Prop at 2500 and pull the mixture back to between 15 and 16.5 gallons per hour (leak of peak). This usually gives me a 1,000 plus mile range.

Last weekend, I departed San Diego Gillespie, stopped at Palm Springs to pick up a passenger, then proceeded to Dallas non-stop. I would have preferred to get fuel at Palm Springs, but the FBO was out of 100LL and it was very busy. I proceeded home with checks along the way if fuel got too scarce. I also have Osborne tip tanks which hole 21 gallons each which gives me total fuel of 122 gallons.

Trued out at 185 knots at 13,000 feet coming home and got a little tail wind about half the way. Stretched the fuel a bit, but know the plane well and have a Shaddon Digital Fuel Flow gauge in addition to the analog indicators on the mains and tips.

Best,

Dave
A-36TN ADS

 

[gismo]

I have a 1968 E33C Aerobatic Bonanza. Serial # CJ1 it was the prototype for only about 20 of that model that were ever built. I upgraded to the IO-550, 300hp engine. I usually plan on about 13gph for normal cruise at about 180 kts true which reduces to about 11 gph above 10,000'

11-13 gph sounds awfully low for an IO-550, and IIRC you need something like 70-75% power to make a Bonanza go 180 KTAS. That should be more like 15-18 gph.

 

[lsimonds]

Once you've flown a Bonanza....

That's it! I have to figure a way to join the flying club here that has them....even if it is an hour from my house!!!!!

 

[Bonanza]

11-13 gph sounds awfully low for an IO-550, and IIRC you need something like 70-75% power to make a Bonanza go 180 KTAS. That should be more like 15-18 gph.

Nope, at 10,000 I true at 177 at full throttle and 2300 rpm leaned to a little ROP using just 11 gph. I've heard other V tail Bonanza owners quote higher fuel burns but that is my experience with the straight tail E33C.
Stephen.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

That's it! I have to figure a way to join the flying club here that has them....even if it is an hour from my house!!!!!

Lisa:

Come to one of out club meetings. We meet the third Tuesday at 7:30 P.M. We have a program tonight. Or come to a future one.

Best,

Dave S

 

[gismo]

Nope, at 10,000 I true at 177 at full throttle and 2300 rpm leaned to a little ROP using just 11 gph. I've heard other V tail Bonanza owners quote higher fuel burns but that is my experience with the straight tail E33C.
Stephen.

And have you checked the accuracy of your ASI using the 3 leg GPS method? I have flown several Bonanzas, both straight and forked tail (owned one of those for several years) and I've never seen one that would do much beyond 160 KTAS at 11 GPH and the ones that could hit 175 KTAS were burning at least 15 GPH to do it. I have seen airspeed indicators that were in excess of 10 Kts optomistic. That was all before GAMI came along, but at best GAMI's and LOP operations aren't going to yield a 3 GPH improvement without losing some airspeed.

Bonanzas are wonderful airplanes, but they are not as efficient as a late model Mooney especially at 180 KTAS, yet that's pretty much what your claims would indicate.

 

[gismo]

Very easy to fall in love with a Bonanza. There's a F33 on field in which I have a few hours. Some Bonanzas do have two doors, but not a pilot-side door. Sorta wierd.

Yep, to know one is to love one (except for the parts costs). As to the missing pilot's door, I was just perusing my copy of one of Larry Ball's Bonanza books, and found several sketches of prototypes proposed early in the development and they all showed a pilot's door.

There was also a story that indicated that Beech's board of directors were all set to kill the Bonanza program near the beginning because they didn't want to get involved with such a "small airplane". Thank goodness that Walter Beech himself disagreed strongly enough that the project went forward.

 

[gibbons]

Bonanzas are wonderful airplanes, but they are not as efficient as a late model Mooney especially at 180 KTAS

No doubt. We can expect our BE36 (IO550) to burn right at 16.5 gph at 2300 RPM below 10,000' and true about 170kts (or about 10 - 10.5 mpg). We lean 75 - 100 rich of peak.

The Mooney is going to burn a lot more fuel than that since it will have to make two trips to haul as many people and as much baggage.

Chip

 

[LvPilot]

...
Bonanzas are wonderful airplanes, but they are not as efficient as a late model Mooney especially at 180 KTAS, yet that's pretty much what your claims would indicate...

hmmm ... I've never really considered a Mooney ... I'll tell you why .. (I know this is really bending this thread but...) Early in my flight training - actually the very day that the I was to do my 1st solo - I was the unfortunate/(fortunate?) witness to an emergency landing of a Mooney at VGT. Apparently the landing gear came down but wouldn't lock. As this was happening, my instructor and I were in the pattern practicing a few touch-and-goes before he was to send me out on my own. When the tower called us to come in due to an emergency, we came down, parked and quickly ran back to where a small crowd had gathered near the runway. After several passes over the runway (and lots of armchair quarterbacking from the sidelines) an intense silence fell over our small crowd as the Mooney came in to land. The pilot slowed it down and entered a perfect flair to let the wheels gently touch the pavement and then fold neatly back up into its belly. He kept the plane straight and under control as the prop hit the pavement and the plane did a short skid until stopping. Thankfully, there were two very experienced gentlemen in the plane who were only slightly shaken from the incident. As for me with only a few hours under my belt, I was completely amazed at how well they had brought the plane down. In fact, I remember turning to my instructor and commenting that even without landing gear those guys land better than I do!!


The reason that I mention that I was unfortunate to witness this is that as we stood there and watched them circle and listened to their shaky voices over the radio, an image of a Mooney with dangling landing gear circling the airport was forever imprinted in my mind. At the same time, I was also fortunate to witness this event early in my training to see that it really is possible to safely get down from an emergency situation.

Dan

 

[Brian Austin]

hmmm ... I've never really considered a Mooney ... I'll tell you why ..

Interesting story but if you look at the history books, pretty much every production plane out there has had some sort of accident, pilot-induced or otherwise. You'll never end up getting a plane if that's the case.

Heck, I'd consider it an endorsement for the Mooney.

 

[LvPilot]

...
Heck, I'd consider it an endorsement for the Mooney.

I agree ... and I should probably just forget about the image that I have and go up in one and experience what great machines they are firsthand ... now I just need to find a volunteer

 

[gismo]

I agree ... and I should probably just forget about the image that I have and go up in one and experience what great machines they are firsthand ... now I just need to find a volunteer

Just replace the image of the gear collapse with one of the pilot and passenger walking away safely. From what I've seen, the Mooney cabin structure does a good job of protecting it's occupants, although chances are the main reason for the lack of injuries was the pilot's skill and judgement.

 

[poadeleted3]

Just replace the image of the gear collapse with one of the pilot and passenger walking away safely. From what I've seen, the Mooney cabin structure does a good job of protecting it's occupants, although chances are the main reason for the lack of injuries was the pilot's skill and judgement.

The Mooney cabin is a steel cage, tough as all get out, sitting on top of a solid wing tip to wing tip spar. Tough to fix in the older ones if there is a corrosion problem, but it will give me warm fuzzies when the day comes that I get to sit my family in one.

 

[AirBaker]

Being a relatively new Bonanza owner... I'm hooked myself.