1985 DWI

A

airportbum

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airportbum
Hello all. I'm taking flying lessons was filling out my 8500-8 and got to 18.n and want to be clear about it. I had a dwi, while in college, in 1985. I've had not had any other substance issues since that time. How much of a concern should this be. As I read the Guide for AME I don' think I need to provide the court and arrest documents since it's over 5yrs old...am I correct on that point? If it's going to be a problem I would like to know so that I can change to Sport. Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance for your input!
 
Given that it's almost 30 years old with no other history, it will not be a problem at all, especially if you were not over .15 at the time. Bruce will be along after he gets off work later to fill you in on the details.
 
I don't know if Bruce will be back or not, but you CAN send him an email.

From what I've gleaned between the trolls and Bruce's sighs, you'll need the documents pertaining to the arrest, you current (clean) driving record, and perhaps a statement or two from employers or colleagues.

Basically the FAA wants to know that you don't have a problem misusing alcohol, and they especially want to know that you are not tolerant of alcohol.
 
Okay I have been able to get the arrest report and am working on court documents. BAC was .14 so if anyone has any insight to what impact that has I would love to hear from them. Thanks in advance!
 
I think you also need driving history from everywhere you were licensed since then to show you didn't get nay more DUI's (or the like).
 
You can find here the guidelines for DUIs.

0.14 is good, it's under 0.15, which is the deferral criteria (over 0.15 they think you might be tolerant, hence a regular abuser, and they want to take a closer look).
 
You should be good to go as long as that is the only DUI . You will probably need to prove the .14 ,you will have an interview with the ame,
 
One thing to keep in mind. Once you have all the documentation, chose the AME, and talk to him before going. From what you said, it looks like it should be a non issue and the AME should be able to issue in office without a deferral.
Confirm that with the AME.
From what I read here, there are bad AMEs. If he defers, you'll be in for some unnecessary pain.

If you can't talk to him, when you go for your visit do not give him the number at the bottom of the form you print until you are sure he can issue in office. My understanding is that if you don't give him that number, the visit didn't happen in the eyes of the FAA.

If he says he has to defer, leave and contact Dr. Bruce for a second opinion (he can analyze your case via email and give you a sure answer).
 
Another note....even if you don't think you'll need a piece of documentation...have it anyway.

Much easier to take a piece of paper home with you from the medical that the doc doesn't need, than to need a piece that you don't have, potentially forcing the doc to defer you to OKC, where your application sits in a several-week-long queue before it's looked at.
 
Personal experience indicates that's its so long ago that it will only be a problem if YOU bring it up. Cool it. They may check your drivers license and if it's found you have no DWI in recent years, your good to go. That's all the documentation you need.
 
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airportbum said:
Okay I have been able to get the arrest report and am working on court documents. BAC was .14 so if anyone has any insight to what impact that has I would love to hear from them. Thanks in advance!
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It's below the critical .15 level. If it were over that level, things would be more complicated, but it wasn't, so they're not.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Personal experience indicates that's its so long ago that it will only be a problem if YOU bring it up. Cool it. They may check your drivers license and if it's found you have no DWI in recent years, your good to go. That's all the documentation you need.
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The problem is the AME can't run your driver's license, so I would definitely have my driving record for all states I held a DL in with me, just in case he asks to see it.
It shouldn't be too hard to get a driving record, I think it's worth the effort.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Personal experience indicates that's its so long ago that it will only be a problem if YOU bring it up. Cool it.
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I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying. If you are suggesting not mentioning it, that's as bad a suggestion as could be made in this situation. There are any number of ways the FAA could find out about even a 30-year-old DUI, and once they do, if you lied about it by checking "no" when the answer should have been "yes", your pilot and medical certificates get revoked.
 
I did not mention lying. The question usually asked is ". Have you had a driving under the influence or a DWI in the last three years.?" A real stupid answer would be " no but I had one 30 years ago" My answer would be to leave it blank. ( I've given this advise many times to people applying for jobs! licenses! whatever) In this way you get the chance to explain it in person rather than a faceless drone. I got a DWI in 1979. Believe me NO one in authority was interested after two or three years. In fact at that time I lost my drivers license for 6 months but still flew LEGALLY. If he chooses to make a issue of it even though it's 30 years ago that's his prerogative. Not hard to understand is it? Let me add that to the best of my knowledge is that if you don't pass the sobriety test it's that simple. the degree to which is not of consequence. your either drunk or you are not. The FAA is NOT interested in a 30 year old DWI. One in the last 3 years MIGHT get their attention on a slow day. Many major Airline pilots are currently flying with recent DWI's usually reinstated after a year or two.
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
I did not mention lying. The question usually asked is ". Have you had a driving under the influence or a DWI in the last three years.?"
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The error that Ron called you on is your idea of "ever three years" when the current question is now worded, "...Ever In Your Life..."

"18. Medical History - Have You Ever In Your Life Been Diagnosed With, Had, Or Do You Presently Have Any Of The Following"

And then 18v ask the question about a history of being arrested and/or convicted with a DUI offense, and/or worse substance abuse issues.

Which makes the point that if the student airman, at age 46, had a DUI the first night he turned 21 after his buddies celebrated his birthday, he must still declare the DUI, and provide the required documents even though it was 25 years ago and possibly the only incident.

The burden is on the airman to show that what actually happened and that there is no pattern that raises increased concerns.

Therefore the advice you previously provided that "because it was so long ago, don't poke the bear" was not correct and could have caused a lie by omission, and the bear would have truely awoken eventually and come after the airman.
 
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As I said, leave it blank. I've never seen the question posed asking " ever in your life" . By telling him to leave it blank I'm giving him the correct answer. In the state of Maryland this type offense is cleared after three years except in the case of criminal prosecution which this is not. AOPA can answer it quickly by calling them .
 
Jimmy cooper said:
As I said, leave it blank. I've never seen the question posed asking " ever in your life" .
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Boy, you had better be glad Dr. Bruce is taking a leave of absence from this forum, he would just love you :sarcasm:

What I posted was lifted directly off of the MedXpress website and the currently required online system. You saying "I've never seen..." is telling me you either have not updated your medical certificate (aka filled out the form) recently, or have not closely read the form.

Additionally, leaving 18v unanswered (aka blank to use your phrase) is not possible or permitted. If an airmen did leave it unanswered, the AME is responsible for making sure ALL questions are answered and would ask the airman to say yes or no.

Again, you are providing incorrect and bad advice on a subject that, done wrong, opens up all manner of bad mojo on an airman.

We are happy to have you here, but please provide accurate advice and not conjecture or guesses.
 
AggieMike88 said:
What I posted was lifted directly off of the MedXpress website and the currently required online system. You saying "I've never seen..." is telling me you either have not updated your medical certificate (aka filled out the form) recently, or have not closely read the form.
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Even the paper form has been that way for at least the past 30 years I've been filling them out.
 
Ron Levy said:
Given that it's almost 30 years old with no other history, it will not be a problem at all, especially if you were not over .15 at the time. Bruce will be along after he gets off work later to fill you in on the details.
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Bruce hadn't appeared in postings for about 2 weeks and I don't think he will be back anytime soon. He was in my opinion treated rudely and deserved an apology.

I have had some conversations with him lately about my medical. You can contact him at aeromedicaldoc@comcast.net. I advise doing so prior to completing medxpress.
 
Update. It did get deferred even though my BAC was .14 because the AME said I needed the court papers and all I had was the arrest report. Within 3 weeks I get a letter from the FAA saying that upon review of my information they established that I was eligible for a 3rd class medical certificate and that it was enclosed. The letter went on to say that I met the requirements outlined in the AME guide without any additional information and copied the AME on the correspondence. So for anyone that thinks a deferral is the end of the road I'm proof that it's not...the FAA worked quickly and in my favor...now on to that solo.
 
Glad you got it; However, it just goes to show that a competent AME can be hard to find. Sounds like you should have had the info when you came and been issued in-office without the time and stress of deferral.
 
Oh I had the same info on the visit that I sent to the FAA. The AME just told me I didn't have the correct info...the FAA says that I did. And I agree that a competent AME is a necessity. Now I have time to research before my next one.
 
airportbum said:
Oh I had the same info on the visit that I sent to the FAA. The AME just told me I didn't have the correct info...the FAA says that I did. And I agree that a competent AME is a necessity. Now I have time to research before my next one.
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It could have been a bit of CYA on the AME's part, too. In any event, congrats on your medical.

-Rich
 
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