172 --> Archer

Another thing I do at startup, after oil pressure check, is turn off the electric fuel pump. and leave it off for all ground ops. And turn it back on at run-up.
 
I read the Archer POH nearly cover-to-cover. Unless I missed it, no mention of whether the storm window can be open during takeoff or in flight, and it doesn't appear in any of the POH checklists. Seems like it'd be nice to keep it open for low-level ops in the heat of Florida summer. Yes/no?
 
It doesn't make much difference. Use the floor vents and blower. On the ground, leave the door open if you need.

You'll have trouble sticking your hand out that window. It's really only good for shouting "clear" before engine start.
 
'Storm window'? The little softball size window on the pilot side? I don't think I ever had that window closed. Like, ever.
 
MAKG1 said:
One thing to watch is, the checklist seems to suggest switching tanks right before takeoff. It actually doesn't say that if you read it very carefully, but it is often misread.

Always take off on the same tank you tested in run-up. If you switch to a fouled/empty/buggered tank or miss the detent as you take the runway, you'll discover it just in time to not try the impossible turn.
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I always start up, taxi to runup then switch the tank just before I do the run-up and leave it on that side for takeoff. Great advice.

As for the 172 vs archer, I did all my primary training in a 152 and 172 and the only thing the 172 wins at is the view downwards. I don't even rent it anymore...
 
eman1200 said:
'Storm window'? The little softball size window on the pilot side? I don't think I ever had that window closed. Like, ever.
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Is there not a placarded speed to open the window? My plane says right above the storm window, "Do not open above 150 mph"
 
Hank S said:
Is there not a placarded speed to open the window? My plane says right above the storm window, "Do not open above 150 mph"
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nope. but also this is a 100kt cherokee I'm talkin about.
 
asechrest said:
I'm looking seriously at joining a club with an Archer. All but 1.4 of my 90 hours is in 172s. I flew this 172M 150HP for much of my training and after-PPL flying. This Archer II 180HP is the club plane.

Mission will involve myself, girlfriend, two kids ages 10 and 7. For the forseeable future we'll do day and weekend trips around central and southern Florida. I flew my FBO's Warrior 160HP with my instructor just to get the feel of a Piper. I really enjoyed it in the pattern and on approach and landing. I am concerned about egress from the single door in the event of ditching or emergency landing. Otherwise it seemed a fine airplane.

I'm mainly looking for some general comments on what to look out for and/or focus on as a mostly-Cessna pilot converting to an Archer. Provided the links to the actual planes if that helps. Thanks in advance.
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I recently did this exact transition at about the same time as you after only flying 160hp 172s, and it was a non-issue. I like the way our 180hp Cherokee flies a bit more actually. The low wing is great too. The biggest issue if any was getting used to the fuel system management but that was easy to learn. Go for it. :thumbsup:
 
Me, too-- a big, red kitchen timer velcroed to the glareshield. Startthe engine, start the clock.

Pilawt said:
When I owned low-wing airplanes that could only feed from one tank at a time, I velcroed a big ol' kitchen timer to the glareshield. I took off on the left tank and punched the 'start' button. I'd switch to the right after thirty minutes, back to the left an hour later, back to the right an hour later, and by that time I'd be thinking about a place to land.

view.jpg
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eman1200 said:
'Storm window'? The little softball size window on the pilot side? I don't think I ever had that window closed. Like, ever.
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I kept mine closed all winter long.

In the summers, mine was open all the time.
I even had one of those clear plastic scoops with the hinge that stuck on with double-sided sticky tape and hinged out into the opened storm window and said "Do not use in flight". Well, it makes a mighty fine air conditioner when you climb up to the cooler air at 8500 MSL in summertime :D just don't let the scoop slam fully open suddenly by the slipstream and it won't break off its plastic ears.
 
I flew the club Archer for the first time Sunday morning. It flies real nice. I continue to be impressed how stable the Piper products are during approach and landing phases. I liked the 180HP vs. the 150HP I'm used to. The cockpit seems much wider than the 172 (haven't checked measurements to confirm that). The controls are smooth and responsive and the control pressures required seem a bit less than the Cessna.

The CFI didn't have much time to fly, so we're breaking the checkout into two flights. I'll do the final one next weekend, focused on the avionics (which are really the biggest challenge considering I come from a no GPS background) and a bit more area familiarization. We did one touch and go on the 3,255 ft runway at North Perry (KHWO, FL). I'm used to nothing shorter than 4,700ft and man did it feel short.

I will take some tips on hot/flooded starting the thing, though. Club rules require a fuel top-off after every flight and I could not for the life of me get it restarted after fueling.
 
This isn't an injected Archer, is it?

Just, don't prime it. If that doesn't work, then DO prime it as though it were cold and flood-start.

They are nice and stable, and the gear steers real nice on the ground.

Have you tried a stall yet? Look real carefully or you'll miss the break. On the occasional time I get asked by a newbie wanting to experience a stall, I'll do it in a PA28. They usually need to be told it has happened.

They are certainly easier to fly than 172s. Not so much 182s.
 
Not injected. After fueling I didn't prime and tried just a normal start. No dice. Probably tried once more the same way, no dice. Waited a bit, pulled out the POH and tried the hot start procedure. No dice. At this point I called Gus from the club and he talked me through his procedure. Tried it and couldn't get it done though that's not to say I was doing it right. Made a final call to the CFI who had flown with me and he recommended I flood the engine and then flood start it. So I gave it a couple shots of primer and tried the POH flood start procedure. I still couldn't get it. I pulled it from the fuel farm to parking. Sort of embarrassing but I liked that idea in lieu of draining the battery or damaging the starter on my first club flight. Though I did almost die of heatstroke.

Where I trained we never fueled up after a flight and, anyway, the fuel came to parking in a fuel truck. So self-fueling and hot starting are foreign to me. License to learn, and all. :)

PS - You've been real active in my thread, so special thanks for the help. (And all the others who've commented.)

PPS - The stall was totally benign.

MAKG1 said:
This isn't an injected Archer, is it?

Just, don't prime it. If that doesn't work, then DO prime it as though it were cold and flood-start.

They are nice and stable, and the gear steers real nice on the ground.

Have you tried a stall yet? Look real carefully or you'll miss the break. On the occasional time I get asked by a newbie wanting to experience a stall, I'll do it in a PA28. They usually need to be told it has happened.

They are certainly easier to fly than 172s. Not so much 182s.
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asechrest said:
Not injected. After fueling I didn't prime and tried just a normal start. No dice. Probably tried once more the same way, no dice. Waited a bit, pulled out the POH and tried the hot start procedure. No dice. At this point I called Gus from the club and he talked me through his procedure. Tried it and couldn't get it done though that's not to say I was doing it right. Made a final call to the CFI who had flown with me and he recommended I flood the engine and then flood start it. So I gave it a couple shots of primer and tried the POH flood start procedure. I still couldn't get it. I pulled it from the fuel farm to parking. Sort of embarrassing but I liked that idea in lieu of draining the battery or damaging the starter on my first club flight. Though I did almost die of heatstroke.

Where I trained we never fueled up after a flight and, anyway, the fuel came to parking in a fuel truck. So self-fueling and hot starting are foreign to me. License to learn, and all. :)

PS - You've been real active in my thread, so special thanks for the help. (And all the others who've commented.)

PPS - The stall was totally benign.
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At one time, the Piper dealer/FBO I worked for had a Cessna 152 on the line. I would take my Cherokee students up in the Cessna to tech them what stalls were all about.

Bob Gardner
 
My hot start procedure with my O-360 is simply pump the throttle a couple of times, set it for ~1000 RPMs and turn the key. If it doesn't fire soon, pump the throttle back and forth a few times. Release when it catches. It usually takes longer than a cold start [except in the winter, when cold starts are COLD!].
 
Is it hard to start cold as well?

Many trainer aircraft get leaned weakly or not at all, and the fouling makes starting real hard.

I've been getting spoiled lately on all the 182s (counting four now, all different models). They all start very easily. Though it took two tries Saturday on the 182T, as I underprimed it. Another two seconds on the aux pump took care of it.

Vapor lock is a risk on some engines, though I didn't think Archers were particularly prone to it (it's a BIG problem for IO-360s). If this happens, you can try to start by flooding the CRAP out of the engine to purge the vapor. But it may just take waiting 30 minutes.
 
Started up fine cold. Per Archer POH, tried once without priming. Didn't catch. Two shots on the primer and tried again, started up right away. Didn't detect any plug fouling during the run-up and I also leaned aggressively to taxi.

I probably just suck at hot starting.
 
Everyone sucks at hot starting someone else's plane.

Just wait until the magic incantations start.

I know…get out of the airplane, and run three circles around it clockwise while shouting prayers to the fuel gods. Then get back in and cycle the flaps three times. Turn the yoke all the way to the right. Then pump three shots of primer, full throttle, mixture cutoff, and crank it like the POH says.
 
Just created the Magic Incantations Checklist. Soon to be available from Sporty's for $99.95. We shall split the profits.
 
Oh, and that's THREE shots of primer.

Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once at the number three, being the third number to be reached, then, pullest thou thy red lever to idle cutoff, pushest thou thy black lever to full, and crankest thy engine, who, being naughty in my sight, shall fire.

:)

Maybe we should make a metal hot start calculator?
 
Local school's archer needs 6 strokes of the primer and a vigorous pump or 3 of the throttle while cranking to start with any certainty.

At least that has been the procedure that works for me.
 
DO NOT pump the throttle on an updraft carb.

You may get away with it while cranking, but the primer works a LOT better. If you're not cranking, all you're doing is making a Molotov cocktail out of your air box.
 
I had my second of two checkout flights yesterday morning and was officially signed off to fly the club Archer. Thought I'd post a debrief for anyone with a similar transition in the future who might stumble upon this thread.

First point: it's a docile, fixed-gear, single engine airplane and it flies like one. It is very stable in approach and landing phases, and quite nice in a crosswind. The low wing is pleasant in the pattern since you can see your runways. The Johnson Bar flaps are amazing: simple and sturdy, a satisfying "clunk" as it locks into each flap position, easy to reference by peripheral vision.

For a Cessna-only person, the single door on the wrong side takes some getting used to. The cockpit is like a greenhouse without the high wings to provide shade. Ground ops are hotter without the two big windows to open like the Cessna, though this is mitigated by opening the pilot side storm window and cracking the passenger-side door. Once in flight the floor-mounted air vents provide a nice blast of air.

Flight characteristics are similar to the Cessna. The plane seemed to need a bit more of a pull to break free at liftoff; not sure if this is all in my mind. The stall is a non-event. Steep turns are nothing out of the ordinary. Pitch and roll stability is fantastic.

To be honest, the biggest thing to get used to is changing fuel tanks. I spent a couple of flights with a CFI on the transition from 172 to Archer, but a good chunk of that was area familiarization since I was flying in a new location. If the focus was aircraft transition, once good lesson probably would have been fine.
 
You're definitely right on the yoke pull at liftoff. The archer requires a more positive rotation where I've found the 172 flies itself off the runway for the most part.

I've found that the stabilator is heavier in all phases of flight and requires more trim for that matter.
 
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