170B hits skydiver's chute during touch-and-go at X49; everyone survives

AF/D for that airport:

PARACHUTE JUMPING AND ULTRALIGHT ACTIVITY ON AND INVOF ARPT. THLDS MKD WITH 3 WHITE BUCKETS PERPENDICULAR TO CNTRLN.


Buckets?
 
Wow, those pics are amazing. More amazing that all survived!

Sent from my iPhone.
 
flyingron said:
AF/D for that airport:

PARACHUTE JUMPING AND ULTRALIGHT ACTIVITY ON AND INVOF ARPT. THLDS MKD WITH 3 WHITE BUCKETS PERPENDICULAR TO CNTRLN.


Buckets?
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Thresholds at one of my airports are 55gal drums cut in half lengthwise, laid on the ground and painted orange. I've seen white painted tires before, so a line of 5gal buckets wouldn't surprise me.
 
We have those skydiver's at kOKH they broadcast jumpers away and point out notum are published and Whidbey approach advises traffic also. We have had some close calls with the jumpers as they land across from the runway and on decent some have crossed the runway centerline to get to their target area. If you are going to land at a airport with active skydiver's you need to look out for them. Pay attention to that symbol of skydiver at the airport and if you do not have a radio read the notum otherwise you might find a skydiver in front of you on landing.
 
Really old pilots should not be allowed to fly. This old fella is clearly in the wrong. I hope the outcome is one more old incompetent pilot off the circuit and a full recovery otherwise.
 
jenkins said:
Really old pilots should not be allowed to fly. This old fella is clearly in the wrong. I hope the outcome is one more old incompetent pilot off the circuit and a full recovery otherwise.
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I haven't read much of the story so how was he in the wrong?
 
jenkins said:
Really old pilots should not be allowed to fly. This old fella is clearly in the wrong. I hope the outcome is one more old incompetent pilot off the circuit and a full recovery otherwise.
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Geico266 said:
He was old. :rolleyes:
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I suppose... I didn't read anything about it,but it appears the skydiver is on the runway or close.
 
flyingmoose said:
I haven't read much of the story so how was he in the wrong?
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He was wrong because skydivers have the right of way. He was doing T&G's. He should have been aware of the skydiving activity and been watching it.
 
flyingmoose said:
I haven't read much of the story so how was he in the wrong?
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He rear ended slower moving traffic. Think people, he flew into a slow moving brightly colored object. Lucky it wasn't one of them mountains that are disguised by being the color of dirt.:rolleyes2:
 
Matthew said:
Thresholds at one of my airports are 55gal drums cut in half lengthwise, laid on the ground and painted orange. I've seen white painted tires before, so a line of 5gal buckets wouldn't surprise me.
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These aren't permanent markings. The runway has NO markings (you can see this from the google satellite shots) according to the AFD. They appear to mark off part of the runway with the buckets to make a "displaced" threshold. Hard to tell, but it looks based on background that this wasn't anywhere near the threshold (bucketed off or not), but out in the middle of the runway.
 
jenkins said:
Less maneuverable traffic. What was he supposed to do? Climb?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
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Parachutes are steerable. Not landing on the middle of an active runway is a good idea.

There is no rule on less maneuverable traffic in aviation (and it's not even an absolute in nautical law).
 
It's amazing that no one was seriously injured.:yes: I'd say we've lost another pilot though, I doubt an 87 year old man will replace that beautiful 170. :(
 
flyingron said:
Parachutes are steerable. Not landing on the middle of an active runway is a good idea.

There is no rule on less maneuverable traffic in aviation (and it's not even an absolute in nautical law).
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Okay so a slow moving skydiver gets rear ended by a far more maneuverable aircraft from behind and you're telling me the skydiver could be at fault?
 
jenkins said:
He was wrong because skydivers have the right of way. He was doing T&G's. He should have been aware of the skydiving activity and been watching it.
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Ok so they have the right-of-way, but if you fly your chute in front of a plane that "might" see you as you swoop in front of him..Well, not much you can do. Skydivers have their own landing area and should not be landing on the runway.

ClimbnSink said:
He rear ended slower moving traffic. Think people, he flew into a slow moving brightly colored object. Lucky it wasn't one of them mountains that are disguised by being the color of dirt.:rolleyes2:
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You say that like he just thought: "Oh look at that skydiver, well I guess i'll just continue on and he will move!" :rolleyes2: From the look of the picture he was above the a/c and in a high wing would be hard for him to see, but you already knew that. Then he descended down in front of the path of landing traffic on an active runway. Being that I have dropped thousands of skydivers, I have never seen a landing area on an active runway.

Agreed that if he knew he was there that he should avoid and being aware of your surroundings is a good thing. Not sure if I see it being his fault yet.

Sleepingsquirrel said:
The pictures clearly show he did not use correct rudder input to correct for yaw.:D
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Oh i missed that part. Thanks :D
 
jenkins said:
Really old pilots should not be allowed to fly. This old fella is clearly in the wrong. I hope the outcome is one more old incompetent pilot off the circuit and a full recovery otherwise.
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Did you forget the smiley?
 
jenkins said:
Really old pilots should not be allowed to fly. This old fella is clearly in the wrong. I hope the outcome is one more old incompetent pilot off the circuit and a full recovery otherwise.
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So what's the cut off for being really old? I've met 80+ year olds that have more on the ball than people decades younger. Incompetent? Are you sure?
 
There is a cultural disregard for safety among every skydiving operation I've observed.
 
painless said:
So what's the cut off for being really old? I've met 80+ year olds that have more on the ball than people decades younger. Incompetent? Are you sure?
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There should not be an absolute cut off age wise because as you point out there are indeed some 80+ pilots who are excellent. However there are plenty more who are NOT. There should be a rule IMHO where after a certain age you need to do your BFR with a DPE or someone other than some tame CFI who is terribly impressed with your vast experience and age, and that BFR needs to terminate your privileges if you are not safe.

I've had too many experience flying into local airport with older pilots who are past their prime and not safe.
 
kgruber said:
There is a cultural disregard for safety among every skydiving operation I've observed.
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So tell me if you arrived at your local airport and you became aware that there was a skydiving operation going on (because you read NOTAMs and you listen to your radio etc), would you go ahead and decide to do a bunch of T&G's? I wouldn't. I would take off and fly somewhere else to do my T&G's. If he came from elsewhere still no excuse he should have listened up and opened his eyes.
 
kgruber said:
There is a cultural disregard for safety among every skydiving operation I've observed.
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There is ignorance about everything nonairplane that flies from airplane pilots that is worse then what nonpilots know about airplanes.
 
jenkins said:
I've had too many experience flying into local airport with older pilots who are past their prime and not safe.
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With that kind of vast experience dealing with "old" pilots, it points out a more likely scenario that you are the one with poor operating practices.
 
kgruber said:
With that kind of vast experience dealing with "old" pilots, it points out a more likely scenario that you are the one with poor operating practices.
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I'm sorry I appear to have struck a raw nerve with you. I did not intend to offend you. I'm sure you are a safe old pilot. Please forgive me.

:sad:
 
Those are some truly amazing pictures. Content aside.
 
jenkins said:
Really old pilots should not be allowed to fly. This old fella is clearly in the wrong. I hope the outcome is one more old incompetent pilot off the circuit and a full recovery otherwise.
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They're old pilots for a reason....

Insert saying here...[there are Old Pilots, and Bold Pilots, but no Old Bold Pilots]

Seriously, I seek out old CFI's to do my BFR's with (and occasionally the young, starving CFI). There's a vast amount of knowledge and experience out there that needs to be passed along. But what do I know, I'm just a punk kid of 50...
 
I'm not sure I'd be so quick to judge this pilot. It appears the skydiver landed well away from the normal landing area and traveling perpendicular to the runway.
 
flyingron said:
I'm not sure I'd be so quick to judge this pilot. It appears the skydiver landed well away from the normal landing area and traveling perpendicular to the runway.
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It appears the pilot can't clear the area less than a wingspan in front of him.:eek:
 
ClimbnSink said:
It appears the pilot can't clear the area less than a wingspan in front of him.:eek:
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And you would be able to spot and avoid a diver, ultralight, vehicle, whatever that is crosses perpendicular to the runway while you are just above the runway?
 
This looks like the positions on the runway. Looks as if the chute was flying into the jump center. Jump center is close to the red marker.
 

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Look at that aerial photo -- is there enough space there, for parachutes? And enough space for them to share with traffic on a runway?

I'm wondering if the whole jump operation was a bad idea, for this location.
 
flyingron said:
And you would be able to spot and avoid a diver, ultralight, vehicle, whatever that is crosses perpendicular to the runway while you are just above the runway?
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Yes, of course, if you can't you need to hang it up. I keep telling you TV pilots and blind old fools there is all sorts of stuff out there to fly into, and nothing but looking is going to save yer buts.
 
I am thinking it is a good thing the pilot didn't abort his takeoff. Had he done so the jumper just might have landed directly in front of that whirling meat grinder of a propeller. The end result could have been much worse. From the over head view of the airport the jumper was in a better position to see and avoid and could have turned up wind or downwind and paralleled the runway rather than cross it. As Moose said in a high wing aircraft it would have been unlikely the pilot saw the jumper in time to do much of anything. Fortunate that both are ok.
 
jenkins said:
So tell me if you arrived at your local airport and you became aware that there was a skydiving operation going on (because you read NOTAMs and you listen to your radio etc), would you go ahead and decide to do a bunch of T&G's? I wouldn't. I would take off and fly somewhere else to do my T&G's. If he came from elsewhere still no excuse he should have listened up and opened his eyes.
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Is there a rule that requires radios now :D
 
Notice the yellow X on the ground adjacent to the final resting place of the plane. Isn't that the Skydiver's target? It was when I was jumping. Perhaps not much thought was put into separation of skydivers and aircraft.

Paul
Salome, AZ

PS If some of you young whippersnappers want to come to Salome I'll kick your butt. :)

Age 76 with 60 years of aviation behind me.
 
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