Actually if you have your own storage tank stripping the alcohol from the gasoline is pretty simple, water and a Racor water sep/filter unit is all you need.
100LL... any news?
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Tom-D
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Tom-D
What do you have after stripping?
A fuel that you have no idea of the octane, because the refinery uses the alcohol to set burn rate.
Correct, you have to now see what you have left for fuel by running it in your own 'knocker' engine to see what's left. The whole ethanol thing is a very bad joke WRT environmental issues anyway because while the PPM coming out the pipe are lower, the extra millions of parts from the extra fuel consumed more than makes up for it. It's a lot like smog pumps in the early 70, a bad joke that made things worse because it was the cheapest loophole in the rules they could find to get a reading they required rather than the result desired.
Every time I ran tests from back in the 70s till now, alcohol bearing gasoline has always cost me approximately 10% in fuel economy.
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Tom-D
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Tom-D
Sure every body has one of them.
You might be surprised in how cheap and easy it is.
What happened here is legislators started telling engineers to solve ethical issues of their bosses as well as society in general using technology. Since there are costs involved in all that is it surprising that industry brought us a solution that pays lip service to its intent while figuring out a way to make an extra level of profit leveraging corn futures while not reducing the actual tonnage of pollution output one iota.
The problem with letting the market regulate it is we did that and ended up with pollution so bad we had to introduce legislation to stop it. If you believe that 'market forces' would have been effective, I suggest you fly into Jakarta and take a tour of SE Asia starting there. You will see the results of allowing the 'market' to regulate important things.
The problem here is with every socially related issues with humans, we're 80% stupid and selfish and if we let the market regulate things we will end up with stupid results that are expensive and extremely difficult to set straight again; kinda like the situation we're in now from letting industry run rampant from 1865 to 1972.
Everything we're dealing with right now environmentally, economically and socio-politically is the direct result of 'letting market forces dictate actions'. The problem really lies in that market forces own government now so there is no way around the problem anymore.
HerrGruyere
Line Up and Wait
I've always figured it was an evil plot to make us buy new cars, since the inability of older cars to handle it properly results in our older engined cars slowly knocking themselves to death on it.
My Dad's truck hates ethanol, and it's only from '91. My old '88 E30 with a billion miles on it didn't seem to mind; however, I had to go up an octane rating to ensure proper fuel burn.
I thought most places in NC had good ol' ethanol-free gas, until I was in freakin' Advance, NC of all places. The Hess station had ethanol gas.
However, by my parent's in NC it's all good ol' ethanol-free gas. Don't need no veggies in mah fuel!!
Pilot-Dave
Pre-Flight
Has anyone been following the development of fuels like SwiftFuel? I've seen videos of run tests, and I believe I read that there have been demonstration flights, but I've been wondering how far out such alternatives are for the masses.
Some of SwitftFuel's claims: (http://www.swiftenterprises.com/Swift Fuel.html)
more: http://www.swiftenterprises.com/Swift Fuel benefits.html
Some of SwitftFuel's claims: (http://www.swiftenterprises.com/Swift Fuel.html)
- Seamless replacement of 100LL (no engine modifications)
- 15% increase in range over 100LL (no oxygenates)
- 20% drop in pollutants over the current 100LL fuel
- 15% more volumetric energy than 100LL
- No need for stabilizers or additive
- Completely miscible with 100LL
- NO deterioration in octane over time
- Does NOT contain Ethanol
- Stable over time, can be density checked for quality
- 2 pure components rather than 78 (with 100LL)
- General aviation can be first transportation sector using carbon neutral sustainable fuel
more: http://www.swiftenterprises.com/Swift Fuel benefits.html
Anthony
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Anthony
Let's up when the EPA gets a new Dept. head in January, some of these ethanol requirements will be rolled back. More likely whomever is in the big office will cave to the environmental and corn lobby.
Chip Sylverne
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Quit with the negative waves, man.
This company seems to have a solution in Europe, but can't get into the US market. I've asked here before, on the red board and on Beechtalk and haven't gotten a straight answer. The chairman of the company had letters published on AvWeb, but got shut down somehow.
http://www.hjelmco.com/pages.asp?r_id=13395
They aren't a big enough company for the big boys to let play, besides, they have a product that we need here which means there is already a provider here who wants to block that product from the market here so they can steal the idea/formula and market it here without having to pay a royalty to someone who already did the work and got a patent.
Pilot-Dave
Pre-Flight
Hmm. I thought they were based here in the midwest of the USA. That'd be shame if its only corporate politics keeping them from inserting some good old fashioned competition in to the market.
Am I wrong in thinking they're a midwest company? I thought they might have some affiliation with Purdue University. Maybe I can run over there and talk to them directly.
While I am a free market guy, I do not content that the free market should regulate. I would agree with you that there can be market externalities, and that the free market forces don't result in the efficient outcome in the face of such externalities. In such instances, it is appropriate to regulate the free market.
My point was simply that the goverment is woeful at picking a particular technology to back. When that happens, you get stupid laws, like ethanol subsidies, and banned incandescent lamps.
This is what you get when you let the market regulate the government through campaign funding requirements. The technology that over came good government was television.
Okay. I'm lost.
I'll just leave it at this: The big problem I see today is that business has decided that the easiest way to compete is to get the government to strangle the competition. I don't see the solution to that as necessarily more government intervention. I suspect we probably share some common ground in there somewhere.
I'll just leave it at this: The big problem I see today is that business has decided that the easiest way to compete is to get the government to strangle the competition. I don't see the solution to that as necessarily more government intervention. I suspect we probably share some common ground in there somewhere.
Yeah, I don't see how more government intervention can help either. At this point the problems are so deeply entrenched nothing short of a popular revolution can straighten thing out.
Chip Sylverne
Final Approach
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Quit with the negative waves, man.
Hmm. I thought they were based here in the midwest of the USA. That'd be shame if its only corporate politics keeping them from inserting some good old fashioned competition in to the market.
Am I wrong in thinking they're a midwest company? I thought they might have some affiliation with Purdue University. Maybe I can run over there and talk to them directly.
We've got crossed signals. Swiftfuel is in the midwest, and is working on an answer. Hjelmco is Swedish, and has an answer, but can't sell it here.
I will post this again......................
Sunoco has the perfect replacement for 100LL right now..
http://www.racegas.com/fuel/8
Sunoco has the perfect replacement for 100LL right now..
http://www.racegas.com/fuel/8
I'm not sure what the deal there is. There is more than just detonation resistance though, there is also volatility in the fuel lines. According to an old man I knew who was a pilot and petro-chem engineer in the 20s, the reason they started putting lead in the fuel was so they could take it to altitude.
Pilot-Dave
Pre-Flight
denverpilot
Tied Down
Please show a period anytime in human history where market forces did not own politics.
I will postulate that it's inevitable and unavoidable and anyone selling the ideology that it can be fixed, is just that... selling something to gain power over someone.
I also emphatically point out that people who act like they're not voting for a particular ideology because it benefits them personally, are liars.
They do have a choice about whether they do it consciously or subconsciously, to some extent by how much they convince themselves of the lies, in order to quiet their conscience or after a few generations, to convince themselves they're living up to or shattering mom and dad's principals.
Self-deception is powerful stuff.
Exactly, the systems can't be fixed because the systems aren't broken, human nature is the problem variable in the situation. You can't fix a society under our current moral concern for quantity of life than quality. The thought that all life is precious is a crock.
Reply to my email shows it's primarily because they don't give a f-.
We have several fuels with "260" in the name, none of which have been considered (by us) as a replacement for 100LL. *We're not interested in the aviation market so we aren't familiar with those requirements.
Mike / Sunoco
-----Original Message-----
From: PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:03 AM
To: MILLER, MICHAEL T
Subject: FW: Racegas.com Contact Form
-----Original Message-----
From: henning@caphenning.com [mailto:henning@caphenning.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:36 AM
To: PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS
Subject: Racegas.com Contact Form
I was wondering what the technical issues were preventing 260UL from being marketed as the replacement for 100LL recip aviation fuel? It would be worth a considerable amount so I assume there's some failure, was kinda wondering what it was. My guess is it didn't make the heated climb to 10,000' without vapor locking.
airguy
Cleared for Takeoff
There's a little more to it than that - to get to altitude they need more horsepower at altitude, which required them to start running boost and higher compression - which caused detonation - which required the lead. Vapor lock in the fuel lines is easily handled by either changing the fuel formula or keeping the fuel under enough pressure to prevent boiling. TEL addition to fuel will not change the vapor pressure, that is controlled solely by the alkane chain mix that constitutes the fuel.
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Bob Noel
You are acting like no one votes because of what they believe to be right.
Not being a rich guy, and having no chance of being a rich guy, I still oppose the ideology of TAX THE RICH. It doesn't benefit me personally.
denverpilot
Tied Down
I understand what you're saying Bob.
You say you've got no chance of being a rich guy, but you're voting to keep the possibility open for someone... and that gives you a benefit today. To be able to say you did it.
There's a benefit in that kind of decision for folks with a sense of fair play instilled in them via their parents and the culture of their youth. It makes you feel good. (Same thing on the "other" side of that debate, by the way... it makes them "feel good" to vote to hand the wealthy's money to the poor.)
My thoughts about the vote (or whatever decision) always benefiting the decider, is based on the modern studies of behavioral economics -- which has really been amazing in busting up a lot of preconceived ideas about the "why" of people's choices.
They keep setting up tests in real-life personal economics, and showing that people do get a benefit from just about every choice, it's just that sometimes the benefit is a bit removed from something we might expect it to be. Something non-monetary is quite common. A "good feeling" is all it takes to get a crowd to do something, in many cases. (Example: Political Conventions... for those that enjoy such silly things. Rah-rah, and all that.)
It's REALLY rare to see someone make a decision that is 100% negative for themselves, and positive for others. The ultimate in that, of course, is the decision to give up your own life for another's life. That's why everyone who has ever seen that happen is changed forever by seeing it...