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Did not mean to imply you were a simpleton. The problem is most CFI's are not aerodynamicists. I happen to be one of those that wear two hats. Both a professional aerodynamicist and a CFI. In regard to your statement about the best glide speed and the 60 degree bank. In a wings-level glide...

In a previous reply to one of your post's I gave you a formula for how to determine the dlimb/glide angle with a wind. In your post you talk about going for a vertical speed based on the ground speed and the climb angle in a wind. The formula I gave you shows that when the consider only...

The point of using the minimum required runway length chart is that it encompasses both the climb performance and the glide performance including the effect of the wind. When one determines the minimum runway length as a function of the distance from the departure end of the runway for a...

I am located in the southern california area so I have seen any of Steve's lectures on the turnback maneuver. If you have something of his that I can review just send it to lgtech@roadrunner.com and I can look it over. An interesting note on developing a minimum runway length for a...

I did not include the answer to your question in my previous posts, so here is the answer to your question. In the wing-level glide, the glide path angle is given by Tan (gam)=1/(L/D)max where gam is the glide path angle. Here, the L/D is the maximim L/D. In a gliding turn, the glide path...

The Rogers papers are one way of viewing the turnback maneuver and his last paper was countering the pundits (i.e. Schiff) view of the turnback maneuver. After I heard Barry Schiff's presentation, I took a somewhat different approach to the turnback maneuever. The basic aerodynamics is very...

If you are referring to the effect of the wind on the climb/glide path angle, then one can utilize elementary trigonometry to obtain the answers. If the climb/glide path angle is less than 10-15 degrees, a good approximation is VTAS*Sin(gam1)= ground speed *Sin (gam2) Here VTAS is the true...

I am not sure you read my earlier long post on the aerodynamics of the turnback maneuver. However, just to clarfiy the point: (1) The teardrop turnback maneuver contains two different types of segments, one a gliding turn and one a wings-level glide. The goal in either of these types of segments...

I spent many years flight instructing out of SNA operating out of the GAT building not far from Sunrise Aviation. I assumed your post was to pitch Church's experiment as something all pilots performing a turnback maneuver should be using as valid information. There was no demeaning intent on my...

If you remember the old adage : :We have met the enemy and it is us" This is the real problem with CFI's teaching turnback maneuvers without really understanding the basic aerodynamics of the turnback maneuver. As both a aerodynamicist and flight instuctor for more years than I would like to...

The problem with this so-called experiment is that it is not a valid experiment. They were attempting to determine the altitude loss in a 360 degree gliding turn. In a gliding turn, there are 4 independent parameters that can be varied. They are (1) air density - altitude (2) Aircraft weight (3)...

(1) I am curious to understand your definition of "academics" (2) What exactly is your definition of "practice"? What are you teaching your students in regard to the turnback maneuver? (3) Prior to my posting of the information on the basic aerodynamics of the turnback maneuver, what were you...

Your statement about how many seconds it really was, is not the main issue. Consider a pilot who is so fabulous at the stick and rudder skills and could make that decision to initiate the turnback at the exact speed within less than 1 second. All that greatness doesn't mean much if the altitude...

All your points drive to the conclusion at the end of my post. "It's Pilot Education on the Subject". As an example, after the AOPA posted Dave Keller"s video of a successful turnback maneuver in a Mooney 20C in 2009, and in 2010, how a student pilot and her instructor were attempting to show...

In my long post I tried to get the message across that if the combination of the aerodynamics of the aircraft and the environment is telling the pilot that no matter how fantastic their stick and rudder skills are and how adept they may function under super stress, it's an "Impossible Turn"...

Comment on the “Impossible Turn” (This is a long post but it is packed with a lot of important information) The so-called “Impossible Turn” was coined when pilots incurred an engine failure and attempted to turn back and land at the airport they had just departed. The reason it was termed the...

Comments on the “Impossible Turn” There has always been a considerable amount of discussion on the subject of the so-called “Impossible Turn”. We have heard about how one should perform the maneuver and how much altitude one needs to make a successful turnback maneuver. We have even heard about...

When I posted my original comment on the holding pattern wind calculator patented by Holcomb in the 90's (by the way he also patented the holding pattern entry calculator) I was in no way supporting the use of the holding pattern entry calculator. I agree there are much easier visual concepts to...

Hi Ron, There are a number of reasons for a holding pattern. ATC issues one, or lost comm or troubleshooting an equipment problem. In any event, the pilot should be using this time to prepare for the approach, not worrying about trying to fly the holding pattern. Therefore, If I give you the...

Hi Jason, The calculator that you describe is an approximate method that was patented by a fellow named Holcomb. This calculator is a very complex tool. However, However, to address your statement above, there is an exact solution to the holding pattern under any wind speed and wind direction...