Logging time question

DavidWhite

DavidWhite

Final Approach
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DW
So, say you are an Osprey (V22) pilot. How do you log the flight time in that thing? Is it all RTC, or fixed wing? Is it half and half?
 
Powered-lift.
14 CFR 61.5 said:
(b) The following ratings are placed on a pilot certificate (other than student pilot) when an applicant satisfactorily accomplishes the training and certification requirements for the rating sought:
(1) Aircraft category ratings--
(i) Airplane.
(ii) Rotorcraft.
(iii) Glider.
(iv) Lighter-than-air.
(v) Powered-lift.
(vi) Powered parachute.
(vii) Weight-shift-control aircraft.
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14 CFR 1.1 said:
Powered-lift means a heavier-than-air aircraft capable of vertical takeoff, vertical landing, and low speed flight that depends principally on engine-driven lift devices or engine thrust for lift during these flight regimes and on nonrotating airfoil(s) for lift during horizontal flight.
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However, since the FAA has yet to issue an airworthiness certificate for a powered-lift aircraft, no powered-lift category ratings can be issued (the few that were issued in error were recalled), there is no need for powered-lift time for any current FAA purpose, and there is no FAA requirement for any logged recent experience in powered-lift aircraft so the issue is not yet ripe, as the courts would say. But once the Bell 609 is certified, the insurance companies will be looking for a PL rating and PL time.
 
The V-22 is not the first tilt rotor. Anyway, I think the Harrier guys would argue that they beat the tilt rotors to the party.
 
Sure, but it definitely fits the definition of powered lift from the FAR mentioned above.
 
Lots o' powered lift aircraft, but as Ron points out none have had an FAA airwortiness certificate:
Hiller_X-18_testplatformLarge.jpg

Curtiss-Wright_X-19_flying.jpg

299px-X-22a_onground_bw.jpg

189px-Ryan_X-13.jpg

209px-Convair_XFY-1_Pogo_2.jpg

640px-F-35B_Joint_Strike_Fighter_%28thrust_vectoring_nozzle_and_lift_fan%29.PNG
 
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I guess the term is just a little confusing. I'm in a powered lift aircraft everytime I rotate in the skyhawk:lol:


EDIT: "and on nonrotating airfoil(s) for lift during horizontal flight"

Oh ok, now I get it! I was wondering why a rotary wing aircraft wouldn't be in the "powered lift" catagory.

Ah, learn something new everyday:)
 
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That FAA definition seems to me to include the AV-8A/B or the F-35B. I don't know whether the FAA officially considers them to be fixed wing or powered lift, but I can ask. I'll let you know what I hear.

One thing I know for sure is that the techniques and issues for flying a tilt-rotor like the V-22 versus a jet-lift aircraft like the Harrier are very different. I believe the military has had more success moving helo pilots into the V-22 than C-130 pilots, but the Marines' attempt to move helo pilots into the AV-8A in order to infuse more vertical lift expertise didn't last long.
 
Looking to get a V22 type rating David?:idea: I know where you can get it for free.:yesnod: Look in the yellow pages for your local US Marine Recruiter.:yesnod: Not only will you not have to pay for the type rating, they will pay YOU while you are working on it.

You would be a great catch for those guys.:D

BTW, hope everything's going well for you while you are exercising your patience before your checkrides. When is the big day for the checkrides?
 
Ron Levy said:
Powered-lift.


However, since the FAA has yet to issue an airworthiness certificate for a powered-lift aircraft, no powered-lift category ratings can be issued (the few that were issued in error were recalled), there is no need for powered-lift time for any current FAA purpose, and there is no FAA requirement for any logged recent experience in powered-lift aircraft so the issue is not yet ripe, as the courts would say. But once the Bell 609 is certified, the insurance companies will be looking for a PL rating and PL time.
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Ron, What rating would the 609 test pilots need to have if not powered lift?
 
MBDiagMan said:
Looking to get a V22 type rating David?:idea: I know where you can get it for free.:yesnod: Look in the yellow pages for your local US Marine Recruiter.:yesnod: Not only will you not have to pay for the type rating, they will pay YOU while you are working on it.
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Actually, you cannot get a V-22 type rating that way, because there is no civilian version of the V-22, so there is no V-22 type rating. It's just like trying for an F-15 type rating -- doesn't exist. Only when there is a civilian version with a type rating (like the B707 and the KC-135) can you get an FAA type rating based on your military qualification in type.

In fact, in this case, a military V-22 pilot can't even get the PL category rating on his/her FAA pilot certificate, because the FAA will not issue one until a civilian PL aircraft is certified. Those PL ratings that were originally issued to some of the folks at the Boeing plant in Philly and some military types working with the project were pulled, and no more are being issued for the time being.
 
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Nav8tor said:
Ron, What rating would the 609 test pilots need to have if not powered lift?
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None -- it's still Experimental, and the exception to the requirement for cat/class ratings in 61.31(l) would apply, although I'm not sure if it's under subparagraph (1) because the aircraft isn't certified or subparagraph (2)(iii)(B ) because the aircraft is Experimental.
 
Ron Levy said:
That FAA definition seems to me to include the AV-8A/B or the F-35B. I don't know whether the FAA officially considers them to be fixed wing or powered lift, but I can ask. I'll let you know what I hear.
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What I've been told is that this is currently the subject of a debate between Aircraft Certification and Flight Standards, so there is no official FAA answer yet, and it won't matter until the Bell 609 is certified.
 
Don't forget Moller, unless you mean something that actually CAN obtain flight.
 
The question is moot.....who would WANT to log that time?, the services that fly the V-22 are posers. :D (Just kidding, I think it is a fantastic SAR platform.....the mission in Libya is a prime example.)
 
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