Night VFR

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I've never been a huge fan of night VFR. Yes, I fly it enough times. However, it does require extra considerations.

The other night I was returning home from a night VFR trip, about 400 nm. I know the area and stayed at IFR altitudes, and was on flight following. I only went VFR to avoid annoying routing.

I got within about 20 nm of my home drone, canceled flight following, and decided to set myself up for the ILS since it was convenient. Airport was in sight. AWOS reporting 10 SM sky clear, there wasn't a single cloud the whole trip.

As I'm vecotring myself around (at appropriate altitudes for the area), I'm going along and... wait a second... that's a cloud I'm in. There's hills around here. How'd that happen? Well, best fly the plane since I know what to do to get out of here safely.

This is the sort of VFR into IMC that kills people. Night IFR is no issue for me, and I knew the altitudes I'd be given in that area (gave myself an extra buffer) so it was a non-event. But it's why it's important to be careful night VFR. You likely won't see those clouds until you're in them. When that happens, situational awareness is extremely important.
 
Unregistered said:
I've never been a huge fan of night VFR. Yes, I fly it enough times. However, it does require extra considerations.

The other night I was returning home from a night VFR trip, about 400 nm. I know the area and stayed at IFR altitudes, and was on flight following. I only went VFR to avoid annoying routing.

I got within about 20 nm of my home drone, canceled flight following, and decided to set myself up for the ILS since it was convenient. Airport was in sight. AWOS reporting 10 SM sky clear, there wasn't a single cloud the whole trip.

As I'm vecotring myself around (at appropriate altitudes for the area), I'm going along and... wait a second... that's a cloud I'm in. There's hills around here. How'd that happen? Well, best fly the plane since I know what to do to get out of here safely.

This is the sort of VFR into IMC that kills people. Night IFR is no issue for me, and I knew the altitudes I'd be given in that area (gave myself an extra buffer) so it was a non-event. But it's why it's important to be careful night VFR. You likely won't see those clouds until you're in them. When that happens, situational awareness is extremely important.
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I've had a similar situation, except mine was in the en route phase. I saw clouds ahead and had started a descent to go under them, but misjudged their distance from me and found myself in them. I was a new pilot at the time, but was using autopilot. Because of that, it was a non-event, as I knew that the autopilot didn't even know it was in a cloud. I just continued the descent until I came out the bottom. I'll admit that night flying does add some challenges. However, it sometimes makes other things easier, and can be a beautiful experience.
 
I ran into this problem recently on a night departure from a coastal airport. The AWOS claimed "few clouds at 400." When I took off I reached the base of a cloud at about 400 agl. I leveled off momentarily to see what would happen, but it looked like it wasn't going to go away, so I climbed through it, because I felt it wouldn't have been safe to maneuver around for landing at that altitude at night. I got on top almost immediately, and found that it was more like 400 broken. The AWOS lied!
 
gprellwitz said:
I've had a similar situation, except mine was in the en route phase. I saw clouds ahead and had started a descent to go under them, but misjudged their distance from me and found myself in them. I was a new pilot at the time, but was using autopilot. Because of that, it was a non-event, as I knew that the autopilot didn't even know it was in a cloud. I just continued the descent until I came out the bottom.
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Sounds like in the OP's situation, that could've resulted in a nasty situation. But I'm assuming you were out in the flatlands, where it's a bit different.
 
AWOS's "lie" all the time. I believe their beam is pointed straight up, so it knows only about clouds that are or have been directly overhead, and the fraction of some sampling time that they have been in that position. If I understand the way the algorithm works, a single cloud that sits directly above the airport might lead to a report of OVC, a solid ceiling that is just moving in will get reported first as FEW or SCT, then BKN, then OVC.

And yes, events like this are why I avoid night VFR if there are any low clouds around, except in well-lit environments like around big metro areas. And flying over sparsely lit areas, I'm on the instruments anyway at night.
 
AWOS does lie, I landed VFR once with ours reporting 1/4 on the vis.



I had the runway in view starting about 15 miles out:lol:
 
If at all possible I avoid flying at night. About 60 hours into my license I had an engine quit on me while at cruise; I have a feeling that trying to find a good landing spot at night would be quite a challenge.
 
Challenged said:
If at all possible I avoid flying at night. About 60 hours into my license I had an engine quit on me while at cruise; I have a feeling that trying to find a good landing spot at night would be quite a challenge.
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But it's easy, right? You aim for the empty areas and just do a normal approach. When you're ready to land you turn on your landing light. If you like what you see, you leave it on and land...
 
If you don't like what you see, leave it on and flare into whatever monster you're about to hit.

As a non-instrument rated pilot I only fly at night if the weather is going to be very good. Good visibility a must and I don't like cruising at less than 3-4000 AGL, higher if possible. I plan my route to fly near as many airports as possible.

I do really enjoy night flying.

A quick inadvertent trip into some scud does not scare me as much as the possibility of an engine out.
 
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RMCN172RG said:
No turn it off.
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Why? I was taught that if you're going into the trees, a lake, whatever that you should flare like a normal landing and hit them as slow as possible. How are you going to flare and go into the trees right as the stall horn starts to squeak if you can't see them?
 
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dell30rb said:
Why? I was taught that if you're going into the trees, a lake, whatever that you should flare like a normal landing and hit them as slow as possible. How are you going to flare and go into the trees right as the stall horn starts to squeak if you can't see them?
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Do you really need to or want to see them?

I can hold minimum speed without seeing the tree coming up for me.
 
RMCN172RG said:
Do you really need to or want to see them?

I can hold minimum speed without seeing the tree coming up for me.
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You can trim for approach and hit them at 65 knots with little sink, or you can trim for a minimum speed and hit them at 50 knots with a nasty sink, or you can flare and hit them at a minimum speed with minimum sink.


If you're flying at close to your stall speed... you are sinking like crazy. Remember short field landing practice... full flaps and 50-55 knots dead stick will give you a big sink rate with just enough airspeed to break it with flare. I've never looked at the VSI while landing on a short field but i'm guessing you're coming down at 800 fpm or more

edit; also you might impact right into a thick trunk nose first. You might be coming into the edge of a treeline instead of into the treetops, you never know if you can't see. You're dead meat if that happens. If you can maneuver just a little bit so that your wings are the first to start hitting things, you increase your chances of survival big time.
 
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Unregistered said:
I
The other night I was returning home from a night VFR trip, about 400 nm. I know the area and stayed at IFR altitudes, and was on flight following.
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I assume you meant you flew a legal VFR altitude at or above the minimum instrument altitude.
This is the sort of VFR into IMC that kills people. Night IFR is no issue for me, and I knew the altitudes I'd be given in that area (gave myself an extra buffer) so it was a non-event. But it's why it's important to be careful night VFR. You likely won't see those clouds until you're in them. When that happens, situational awareness is extremely important.
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And it may kill people even if you weren't capable of keeping right side up in IMC. How are you maintaining the obligatory visual separation from a possible person legally flying that same IFR approach in that cloud?
 
I like night VFR too and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Maybe I'm just to ignorant to know any better.:dunno:

Or it could be that I have lights all around me and can clearly make out the ground.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I like night VFR too and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Maybe I'm just to ignorant to know any better.:dunno:

Or it could be that I have lights all around me and can clearly make out the ground.
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When I was based at IAD, night VFR was never a problem. You're in a pretty bright metropolitan area. Flying home from RIC to CJR one night as soon as I turned away from RIC proper it got real dark. I can see how JFK Jr. might have felt.
 
I fly out of a private strip in the middle of farm country in a 172, with the nearest city lights about 12 miles away - and that's a SMALL town of about 600 people. I recently did the "black hole" departure routine at about 4AM on a moonless night, heading for sunrise touchdown at another private strip in Oklahoma. Life was good taxiing out and on the takeoff roll, landing/taxi lights provided plenty of light - but as soon as the nose rotated up all visual reference went away. It was DARK dark, I mean dark like the inside of a cow. Absolutely nothing outside the windows or windshield. It startled me with how abruptly it hit, but I only paused about a half second before going fully on the gauges and flying by the numbers. I was 1000' AGL before I could pick out enough horizon to fly visually.

I had a 3500' runway with powerlines on the far end, I know I can clear that easily even loaded heavy during daylight - but that morning I climbed at Vy and didn't care how much room I wasted or what the engine temps were looking like. I didn't push the nose over for 80 knots until about 400 AGL. I would certainly do it again, but the transition to effectively IMC with no visual cues will definitely get your attention in a hurry, and you need to be ready for it.
 
I like night VFR also, but it's either over fairly well-lit areas or I consult the moon phase calendar and make sure there's no high overcast for any X-C.

I used to do that "pitch black" thing, and somewhere between KSNY and KEIK near the Colorado border the Hale-Bopp comet was spectacular, but I wouldn't have had a place to put the airplane down safely if the engine quit back then. Young and foolish, I guess. It was a rental too! ;)
 
I'm glad we're still allowed (permitted? granted? tolerated?) the privilege of flying night VFR.

If I'm going somewhere, I file. But sometimes you just want to go up at night and see the world from up there. Pittsburgh is very impressive at night and it's easy to get a few orbits over the city.

But it does add risk in a SE aircraft -- no doubt about it.
 
Yeah well at night the risk is the same VFR as IFR even if you are IR rated. If you go down at night, it doesn't matter. Same predicament. If I had an engine out, I'd rather have it in daytime IFR rather than nightime VFR.
 
I've always enjoyed night flying. My first night solo takeoff was from my instructor's private, unlit grass cropdusting strip. He sent his flagman to the end of the strip in a pickup, then told me to "lineup on the corn and get off before the pickup!" I was to fly back to my home field about 15 miles away and do some stop and goes before calling it a night.

His parting words were, "And I don't want to read about you in the paper tomorrow."

I did as I was told. Two years later I had a little over 300 hours and a third of it was night. I took him out for a beer about that time while home on vacation from law school. He asked to see my logbook. He just smiled and said, "I was afraid I might have created a night monster when I soloed you from the farm that night."
 
airguy said:
- but as soon as the nose rotated up all visual reference went away. It was DARK dark, I mean dark like the inside of a cow. Absolutely nothing outside the windows or windshield. It startled me with how abruptly it hit, but I only paused about a half second before going fully on the gauges and flying by the numbers. I was 1000' AGL before I could pick out enough horizon to fly visually.
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Yep...experienced the same thing. Had serious vertigo for 30 seconds or so but flew the gauges.

Experienced something similar after a 1 a.m. missed approach into Provincetown, MA up on the tip of Cape Cod. The Atlantic ocean pretty much merges into an overcast night sky and it's about as black as black can be.
 
I used to fly at night all the time. It's usually the best time for long X/Cs bc of the wx, and it's really not that difficult to compensate for the additional risk if you're on a long X/C. Plan a route that goes over lots of airports and/or fly higher than usual. Most of my night trips were at 12,000'+ and I was almost always within gliding distance of airports.
 
sba55 said:
I used to fly at night all the time. It's usually the best time for long X/Cs bc of the wx, and it's really not that difficult to compensate for the additional risk if you're on a long X/C. Plan a route that goes over lots of airports and/or fly higher than usual. Most of my night trips were at 12,000'+ and I was almost always within gliding distance of airports.
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But at night it really does help to be on O2, especially at those altitudes.
 
I have oxygen and an instrument rating. I still don't like flying at night. Too few options.

Dunno why I feel this way. I fly single engine in the clouds where I'd have the same freakin' problems if the fan quit. Really it makes no logical sense.

Maybe I'm just afraid of the dark?
 
thomascannon said:
I have oxygen and an instrument rating. I still don't like flying at night. Too few options.

Dunno why I feel this way. I fly single engine in the clouds where I'd have the same freakin' problems if the fan quit. Really it makes no logical sense.

Maybe I'm just afraid of the dark?
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It makes sense to me. Unless you are flying in LIFR conditions with very low ceilings, you'll drop out of the clouds far enough above the surface to have a lot more choices than you would at night, even under the best of conditions.
 
dmccormack said:
I'm glad we're still allowed (permitted? granted? tolerated?) the privilege of flying night VFR.
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I agree. It is nice that the option still exists.

But it does add risk in a SE aircraft -- no doubt about it.
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It adds risk in any aircraft. Having two engines won't help you if you have a CFIT occurrence. Where you and I live (well, where you live less so these days), that is a very real concern.

When I started learning to fly, my instructor (who is typically kinda insane) advised me to be careful with flying at night into unknown airports, and suggested using an instrument approach if it was an unfamiliar area, or even sometimes if it's familiar. I have found that to be excellent advice, and do it frequently.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
When I started learning to fly, my instructor (who is typically kinda insane) advised me to be careful with flying at night into unknown airports, and suggested using an instrument approach if it was an unfamiliar area, or even sometimes if it's familiar. I have found that to be excellent advice, and do it frequently.
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Absolutely.

Fly into KVVS at night -- unless you have The NE-4 IAP you won't know:

TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS: Rwy 14, 1100-2. Night NA.
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The ridge immediately to the east is not lit and basically not visible on a moonless night.

Also, landing on 14 is a real treat at night. PAPI is OTS INDEF (and has been for years) and it is a quintessential black hole approach. If you decide to go around, make your turn quick -- that ridge is very close to the departure end.
 
I don't go out of my way to fly at night, but I don't go out of my way to avoid it either. I doubt I would do it VFR in an unpopulated area, but that isn't a big worry where I live. I can see clouds just fine at night, though I don't think I've done it with no moon. I don't worry about the engine that much, it doesn't know it's dark out.
 
My engine seems to know when it's night, over mountains, or over water. Those things make it run rough.
 
from a book I read.. "engines are known to go into 'automatic rough' when over water or rough terrain"
 
I flew home the other night from FtStockton across our mountainous area. No moon, pitch black. Like air guy said and some others too I had to go on the instruments pretty quick, I actually got disoriented a couple of times and that really got my attention with focusing on the panel. I usually fly home at 6500 and maneuver around the "igneous clouds" but that night I climbed to 8500 and got flight following. The ABQ ctr guy said "you're a cessna 152? He sounded surprised that I'd be dinking across the tulies at that hour or maybe he just didn't quite hear me. It was a black hole approach too so I was very careful about the altitde on my way in. Been a long time since I've flown at night but I have a student that's getting close to it so I know I need to refresh my skills .
 
Now that the days are getting shorter I might get night current again. Last winter it was easy as I was up with my CFII after work and all our instrument work was at night. I understand we had some lovely clear nights. I wouldn't know. :D
 
Jeanie said:
I flew home the other night from FtStockton across our mountainous area. No moon, pitch black. Like air guy said and some others too I had to go on the instruments pretty quick, I actually got disoriented a couple of times and that really got my attention with focusing on the panel. I usually fly home at 6500 and maneuver around the "igneous clouds" but that night I climbed to 8500 and got flight following. The ABQ ctr guy said "you're a cessna 152? He sounded surprised that I'd be dinking across the tulies at that hour or maybe he just didn't quite hear me. It was a black hole approach too so I was very careful about the altitde on my way in. Been a long time since I've flown at night but I have a student that's getting close to it so I know I need to refresh my skills .
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Jeanie, I think you know I venture out your way when I can manage so to do (which is not nearly often enough). If I arrive at night, unless it's major moonlight, I fly the IFR approach to whatever field I am flying into.
 
If I arrive at night, unless it's major moonlight, I fly the IFR approach to whatever field I am flying into.
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^^^^^^^
fine advice, that.

Even after you think you know the area, it is so blasted dark you can't really be sure where the haystacks are, Blue Mnt is, etc etc.
 
As terrain mapping and synthetic vision capabilities becoming more widely available (thinking Garmin glass, Aspen and now WingX on iPad) I would think this becomes an additional arrow in our quiver in the event of a night emergency. It may at least guide you to a road as a possible landing site. I haven't played with that feature yet, so perhaps others have a comment on that possibility.
 
I was thinking that Syn Vis is also good for night flying too. If I had an airplane, I would want it in mine.
 
One thing I do pay extra attention to at night is the VASI. I tend to come in too high otherwise.
 
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