Am I full of crap?

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azure said:
If this is Todd Y. then yes, I've heard lots of good things about him too and spoke with him a couple of times at 57D. He is a gentleman and helped me out as a transient pilot looking for wx info. I know that's not a solid recommendation but it's all I can give as I've never trained with him.

In case you have trouble connecting with Todd, I'm going to PM you a second recommendation, also a CFI in the Detroit area. Greg was my first flight instructor and he is first rate IMO.
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Yep, he's a Jem. I went back to him for my last BFR and considering I've moved to Williamsport, PA that is not a short trip. He's worth it.
 
saracelica said:
Not as negative as I thought so far. :)

Missa - How far up in Michigan do you know someone? I'm in NWOhio so going to say Detroit wouldn't be an issue.

I've had two CFI's sign me off. The first one did it as a favor to me. I begged him to just sign me off. I have MORE then enough hours and I thought in crunch time I could pull it off. But then I didn't know how to trim. Now I do.(It's fantastic) So I thought if I do what I did on the first one after I trim I should be good to go.
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You definately need an new instructor. But you may need to take a look in the mirror too. "Begged To sign you off?" That is not how it is suppose to work. If you've got a lot of hours without progress there may be a training-quality issue going on. But if you are not ready, no matter how many hours you have....YOU ARE NOT READY! Don't rush it. Get another instructor and let him evaluate where you are and then help you to fill in the gaps...

If you feel ready and confident, an hour in the air might be the best therapy after a bad day at the office... It is for me...
 
As I said in the other thread, I think you need a different instructor and/or a bit more assertiveness. Toledo isn't that far -- if you have an airplane to fly and don't mind paying top dollar, give me a PM or email, and maybe we can work out a 3-day or so completion session.
 
write-stuff said:
Are you serious? He signed you off for a checkride, sprung it on you unannounced, but tells you you're unsafe to fly solo?? This sounds really, really bad... Are you sure he knows what he's doing as an instructor?
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It's outrageous enough that I wonder ... if this is all accurate. I wonder what the other side of the story is? :confused:
 
Alas I do not have an airplane that I can bring anywhere else. Only club assigned CFI's can instruct in our aircraft. <sigh>
 
It doesn't really matter what the other side is. I posted for venting purposes and as I don't know a training tool for others that if they get pressured by even a DPE or their CFI to turn it down. That's what this board is all about right?
 
saracelica said:
Alas I do not have an airplane that I can bring anywhere else. Only club assigned CFI's can instruct in our aircraft. <sigh>
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Well, in that case, talk to the Club Chief Instructor who should either take this on him/herself or assign a different CFI to get you completed. And remember that PIC stuff -- don't let nobody push you into doin' nothin' you think ain't smart!
 
Thanks for your offer Ron I do appreciate it! I will get this PPL somewhere somehow! I think this breather is doing me good.
 
As many have said...the only thing you HAVE to do is die. Should have said no,
I usually give my PPL students a copy of the syllabus before a checkride, read it over and sign it prior to the ride. That way we both know what is fair game and what has been taught/available for question(worked every time). Same in P135 world, YOUR SIGNATURE required to begin a checkride, you can refuse(up to a point).
BTW fire your CFI, he sounds like a total degenerate.
 
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If you are with Blue Horizons Flying Club, there are 3 instructors listed. Your easiest choice (but perhaps not the best) is to talk to one of the other instructors.

I think you would be better served to look for instruction elsewhere. You've already got a couple of suggestions. If they are too far away, there are a number of other airports within about 20 miles of Metcalf. Sectionals are your friend. Look up FBOs at several, then call and find what they have available. Make appointments to talk to several instructors and find one you are comfortable with.

You've gotten a lot of good advice about assertiveness - now use it. Get a new instructor. NOW!

Good Luck.
 
Do talk to your club's chief instructor. Tell him things aren't working with your current instructor and you'd like to be assigned another one. The chief instructor should get you another one.

If this does not work, take your two week vacation and find a different club or flight school and a new instructor. Don't expect to be signed off immediately. Think of it as a fresh start.

It takes some alot more time than others, but I think most people can be taught to fly. If your instructor is frustrated and giving up on you, then get another one. As long as you have time and are a willing and focused student, your instructor should be a willing and focused teacher. That's professionalism.
 
saracelica said:
I can see why my instructor has been married twice now. He doesn't even ask what I wanted to do. He did what he wanted. MEN. <bleck>
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Easy now

Its crappy to "spring" a checkride on someone, but all you had to do was say no.

Maybe he thought he would help you with your checkride anxiety by springing it on you? (I would not do this to someone, but perhaps he had good intentions) You said you and your instructor know you could do all the maneuvers but on checkride day, you were anxious and could not get everything together. Possibly he thought that if you didn't stay up all night worrying about it (or whatever) that you might be in a better state of mind to take the ride.
 
saracelica said:
I'm in NWOhio
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I think this flight school was started, or acquired by a POA member (Redcloud) a few years ago. I met him once and he seemed like a nice enough guy with good intentions. I see he hasn't been around since last October and it doesn't seem like the link to the website is working but if it is close you might give them a call.

http://www.aopa.org/airports/KFDY/business/29915
 
saracelica said:
Not as negative as I thought so far. :)

Missa - How far up in Michigan do you know someone? I'm in NWOhio so going to say Detroit wouldn't be an issue.

I've had two CFI's sign me off. The first one did it as a favor to me. I begged him to just sign me off. I have MORE then enough hours and I thought in crunch time I could pull it off. But then I didn't know how to trim. Now I do.(It's fantastic) So I thought if I do what I did on the first one after I trim I should be good to go.
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not to sure of the way it's done in the USA ,but learning to trim an aircraft was part of EVERY flight from EOC through to circuits (my son has just started at 14 and learning to trim the AC was part of his first lesson) even getting a gentle prod while doing navs, your instructor is not doing you any favours if your not learning how to operate an aircraft.
My first GA school was a bit of a mess, he was going down the ****ter with his marriage and it wasn't till he finally went broke and I ended up in a RAAus school that i experianced a pre-flight briefing , then ,shock, a post-flight brief, I informed the new guy that although I had an area solo (GFPT) I had big gaps in my skill set. My advice ,dump this one and find a school with a good reputation, humbly explain that you need to be "fixed" and learn to use an aeroplane properly ,for me learning from a good FI makes me confident in what I'm doing which makes flying FUN, which is what it is all about:yesnod:
 
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My (unoriginal) two cents' worth:

YOU are not the one full of crap in this scenario... however, this seems to be yet another case where you failed to think and act like a commander. I know that sounds silly, but it's true. And it's important, even for students. Especially when it comes to the check ride, you are the Boss Lady, and you're paying for everything. The ability to know your privileges as well as your limits, and to act based on that knowledge consistently and without compromise, is the most important skill any pilot can possess. The best pilots are humble, but they're not pushovers.
Changing flight schools is a PITA, postponing lessons and checkrides and, later, flights as PIC, are all PITAs, but in the long run you won't go wrong being decisive, whereas being passive, in this flying game, can kill you.
 
saracelica said:
Thanks Jack. I keep coming back around to the "I.M.S.A.F.E." list. Really wish I put my foot down and said "I'm not going..." But I tried that before when the winds were alot worse then I felt comfortable and the DPE argued with me and said "It's fine" I dunno maybe I'm not good with authority figures and didn't want to say "I'm way to do tired to do it today. Fine it's my fault I accept it. I should've said something.
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What do you mean the DPE argued with you? Odd, very odd.

OK, let's all agree that the OP needs to be more assertive and take control of the situation. In the meantime....

Let's start at the very beginning of the chain of events. The CFI scheduled you for a checkride but did not inform you. That meant the CFI made a stupid assumption that you were bringing the necessary documents to the lesson. I know no CFI that springs a checkride. Solo? Yes. Checkride? Absolutely not!

Now, you're out $200. Contact the DPE and explain that the CFI did not inform you of the checkride, and you were not prepared with documents. It's the CFI's responsibility to ensure you are prepared, not merely for the flight portion but for all aspects of the checkride. Ask the DPE to treat the $200 as credit for your next checkride - which will NOT be a surprise and will NOT be signed off by the current CFI.
 
As an example of PIC during a checkride...did the oral in the morning then went out to the airplane for the checkride. Turns out the intercom didn't work, so I rescheduled the checkride. The DE was kinda surprised but if the intercom wasn't working, I wasn't sure what else wasn't going to work.
 
If you couldn't do it that day, what difference would the next make? You wouldn't have been ready then either. You're not ready because you decide not to be. You aren't confident that you are ready for the responsibility, and you may be right.
 
Henning said:
Hmmmmmm... huh?
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Henning, while I tend to believe what the OP said, I learned a long time ago that there is almost "ALWAYS" another side of the story. I can't tell you how many times an employee came to me with a really good story about some perceived wrong, but when I rushed off in order to correct that wrong, I would get the "rest of the story" and it often made the original story sound not quite so straightforward. I am not going to go so far as to say it is a "woman thing", but I have all women that work for me, and this is almost a daily occurrence.
 
All I can say is that I think a pilot ready for the checkride should "own" that process the way they should "own" their medical certification. That means you lead the CFI, not the other way around. I think theduty of the CFI at that point is to put the brakes on and adjust expectations if the student isn't truly ready, or let the student go if they are ready. But I'm a rookie CFI, so I don't yet know what I don't know.

I'm uncomfortable by how backwards the situation as described is to how I think it should be.
 
saracelica said:
My CFI said if I did pass then he would've had a discussion with me about flying by myself since he didn't think it was safe. Oh my goodness I'm so mad.
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YHGTBSM!!!!

That sentance is saying that your instructor sent you for a checkride when he knew you were not ready for it.

I don't get that.............. :no::nono::dunno:
 
TMetzinger said:
All I can say is that I think a pilot ready for the checkride should "own" that process the way they should "own" their medical certification. That means you lead the CFI, not the other way around. I think theduty of the CFI at that point is to put the brakes on and adjust expectations if the student isn't truly ready, or let the student go if they are ready. But I'm a rookie CFI, so I don't yet know what I don't know.

I'm uncomfortable by how backwards the situation as described is to how I think it should be.
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One of my CFIs behaved in a way similar to the OP's. I asked him for answers to some very pointed questions. Upon making sure I understood his position I marched into the office of the flight school owner. The three of us had a talk which resulted in a refund of some money and assgnment of a different CFI.

The goal is to accomplish one's training. Unfortunately, that may involve upsetting some people. This too can be a teaching moment.

Tim, in response to your last sentence, think of it this way; the level of maturity of one acts to prohibit a fuller understanding of the behaviors of another.
 
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Wow. I'd tell the instructor to get bent and go elsewhere.

Although, your instructor may be reading some of your "I'm not ready to do it" vibe and thought you really were, so he popped it on you. I dunno. Iffy proposition either way.

If I was truly not ready for something, I just wouldn't do it. Flying a plane is about making solid decisions. You can't let your FO, your CA, your brother, sister or ATC get you killed.
 
I suggest people use the "Read other posts by" feature of this software.
 
Hmm.

Sounds like you were put under pressure - and succumbed to temptation. It's not terribly surprising, though. While I fully understand the notion of "being PIC", it's easier said than done at the moment when you are told "just do it" and the big flashing neon sign of "PPL certificate" comes in front of your eyes. It's easy in hindsight, but be honest: with all of Monday's frustrations, did you not get excited when the opportunity presented itself to just "get it done with" there and then? I know I would have been.

In pilot lingo, it's a bit like getting behind the plane.

It also sounds like there is frustration on both sides. Your CFI seems to realize that something's wrong - after all, if I understand correctly, you have over 150 hours of training time, which should be plenty sufficient for attaining your certificate - but on the other hand, he doesn't seem to be accountable to his part of it and tell you "hey, this isn't working out, let me help you find someone who can get you over this hump". Yes, you should be initiating that conversation yourself, but it's a hard one to have. I DO know that from experience; I had to fire my first instructor, and it took me two months longer than it should have because he was a really nice guy and I liked him a lot. So it was easy to tell myself, at that point in my training, that it was just a mindset and attitude problem on my part and that I could fix it if I bit down hard. Shoot, with the level of intimacy (drop the stupid jokes right there, you know what I mean) one develops with one's instructor, firing them is like a breakup conversation. No one likes those, do they?

Well, it wasn't. The real problem was the one I knew all along - he was great to get me through the first portion (teaching me how to fly), but once we got to a certain point and I had to refine my skills, our communications failed miserably and I stopped learning effectively. This became evident when I was running with two instructors concurrently for a couple weeks and with the new one, started advancing rapidly again, yet with the old one, I couldn't even execute a proper S-turn.

The one truly concerning statement in your story has been pointed out repeatedly. If your CFI truly does not think you're safe to fly, yet is signing you off for the checkride hoping you'll get lucky, he should lose his CFI license, and the sooner the better. Is this really what he said? this is not about blame, Sarah. You need to look inside yourself and honestly answer the question "am I safe to fly?". Really be honest. If you can't answer that confidently, with no reservation, then you shouldn't want to get the license. And if you can, then you need someone new to work with you, NOW.
 
onwards said:
Hmm.

Sounds like you were put under pressure - and succumbed to temptation. It's not terribly surprising, though. While I fully understand the notion of "being PIC", it's easier said than done at the moment when you are told "just do it" and the big flashing neon sign of "PPL certificate" comes in front of your eyes. It's easy in hindsight, but be honest: with all of Monday's frustrations, did you not get excited when the opportunity presented itself to just "get it done with" there and then? I know I would have been.

In pilot lingo, it's a bit like getting behind the plane.

It also sounds like there is frustration on both sides. Your CFI seems to realize that something's wrong - after all, if I understand correctly, you have over 150 hours of training time, which should be plenty sufficient for attaining your certificate - but on the other hand, he doesn't seem to be accountable to his part of it and tell you "hey, this isn't working out, let me help you find someone who can get you over this hump". Yes, you should be initiating that conversation yourself, but it's a hard one to have. I DO know that from experience; I had to fire my first instructor, and it took me two months longer than it should have because he was a really nice guy and I liked him a lot. So it was easy to tell myself, at that point in my training, that it was just a mindset and attitude problem on my part and that I could fix it if I bit down hard. Shoot, with the level of intimacy (drop the stupid jokes right there, you know what I mean) one develops with one's instructor, firing them is like a breakup conversation. No one likes those, do they?

Well, it wasn't. The real problem was the one I knew all along - he was great to get me through the first portion (teaching me how to fly), but once we got to a certain point and I had to refine my skills, our communications failed miserably and I stopped learning effectively. This became evident when I was running with two instructors concurrently for a couple weeks and with the new one, started advancing rapidly again, yet with the old one, I couldn't even execute a proper S-turn.

The one truly concerning statement in your story has been pointed out repeatedly. If your CFI truly does not think you're safe to fly, yet is signing you off for the checkride hoping you'll get lucky, he should lose his CFI license, and the sooner the better. Is this really what he said? this is not about blame, Sarah. You need to look inside yourself and honestly answer the question "am I safe to fly?". Really be honest. If you can't answer that confidently, with no reservation, then you shouldn't want to get the license. And if you can, then you need someone new to work with you, NOW.
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Presumes facts not in evidence. You are getting one side of a story. My bet is reality and a conversation with the CFI would paint a completely different picture. Watch the movie "Girl Interrupted" sometime, you'll understand this situation much more clearly.
 
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Henning said:
You see a problem with it?
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I don't know whether the problem is with the CFI, the student, or both, but I certainly don't have problem with your expressing your opinion on it.
 
BellyUpFish said:
Did you take a night course in law or something? You love this phrase. ;)
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It is a wonderful phrase and a good standard of evidence to live by. You have only a sliver view here of the greater reality. You have no idea what her instructor has done. He may very well have told her long ago that she will never make it and she may have begged him to continue. In all the posts that she has written, does one shred of competence, drive or ability come through? How many times has the CFI said she wasn't going to make it but she continued? This is what you don't know anything about, but I suspect it to be true. I always try to find the motivation behind something like this, and the only motivation is that he wanted to finally end this relationship with this person. Normally when things get this type of brutal it's not the first time this type of conflict has occurred.
 
saracelica said:
I can see why my instructor has been married twice now. He doesn't even ask what I wanted to do. He did what he wanted. MEN. <bleck>
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When I was reading your original post, I was reading the frustration of a student pilot.
A person without race, color, sex, or national origin; as I see all posts or real-life comments from persons interested in flying.

When you made this comment, you went from frustrated student to frustrated houswife.

Seriously. Your problems run deeper than the CFI.
 
Henning said:
How many times has the CFI said she wasn't going to make it but she continued?
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On the other hand, how many times has he signed her off thinking she would not pass? Does that sound like a good CFI? If he's trying to discourage her then he is the one who should be saying, "no". I can't count the times I've read on this board that applicants should not worry because their CFI wouldn't sign them off if the CFI didn't think they were ready. That's obviously not the case here.
 
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