Are Old Logged Hours Still Valid

And that is VERY GOOD food for thought. The risk of bad weather intervening with such an aggressive schedule has not escaped me. I have not had a single day of flying since owning my plane and there is no such day in sight.

If I can ever get any flying weather I am planning on trying to fly a little more than an hour at a time. I'm hoping that if I can train for maybe an hour and a half each session, it will speed me along.

Thanks for your ongoing comments.
Doc
 
I just spoke with Tom and just as everyone said, "what a nice guy!"

His take on the situation was that coming up there for a 3 week crash course would be a bad idea. He said that not only is such a flying schedule not a good idea for the Private license, but also the chance of weather spoiling the schedule would make it risky.

He encouraged me to find a way to get the instructor I have to fly with me more. He liked the idea of me doing this training with the old guys. He also said that the hours in my log book are valid no matter what anyone says.

It is appearing that my only course of action is to try and get the old crop duster to fly with me enough. If we get any flying weather in my lifetime, that's what I will try to do. I guess I need to find out what will motivate him to fly.

The old crop duster wants me to start over, but I really don't think he means that he will not honor my logbook. He just means that he wants to be thorough.

Thanks for all the concern and ideas. I am bent on making this happen. I will add to this thread from time to time. The next milestone will be when I solo in the taildragger.

Thanks,
Doc
 
Last edited:
Update!

The new CFI that I referred to up to now in this thread came upon some serious medical issues. By a stroke of luck I came across a retired guy who has flown professionally for over forty years. I've talked to him at length and he lives close to me and close to the airport. He is finishing up another student but we get together tomorrow for our first flight.

He wants to see my airplanes logbooks and my logbook. This indicates to me that he is a very thorough sort of guy. We have a lot in common beyond flying and we communicate very well. After I go up with him and confirm our ability to communicate, I am going to see what he thinks about my taking some vacation and flying a few hours a day. Maybe I'll take a vacation day a week plus flying after work every day we can.

He learned to fly 45 years ago in a 140 like mine. He's flown helicopters, bizjets, multi's, taildraggers et al. I am anxious to see how much weight he will put in my past hours, but that's not a big deal if he will just spend a lot of time in the air with me until I'm finished. If this all works well, he can take me all the way through with my IR, Commercial and CFI.

Things might fall in place after all. I will update this thread from time to time.

Doc
 
Well I can now post something that actually applies to the original title and post.

I met with the new instructor yesterday. I spread out my aircraft log books, my weight and balance calculations and my logbook. He went through the aircraft logs to confirm the plane was legal and talked about it. Then I handed him my logbook. I had already told him that most of my flying was 20 years ago, but when he thumbed through my logbook he said "it looks like you're almost ready for your checkride." I reiterated that most of those hours were from 20 years ago. He sort of shrugged and said that they're still valid.

He then asked me to tell him what requirements flying that I needed without him going through the details of the log book and that he would go through in detail before he signed me off. I told him that I needed my long XC, night XC and 2 hours under the hood and that I needed to learn to fly again.

We then went out and he went over the plane about as thoroughly as anyone could without taking it apart. We got it out and I managed to taxi down the taxiway, albeit like crawling on my hands and kees. I told him that after a few hours of this I might change my mind and get a nose wheel airplane. He said "if you do, don't ever get rid of this one."

We then went up and he had me do 90's, 180's, 360's and slow flight. There was probably a 10 or 12 knot steady wind and a few thermals coming up, but relative to the super rough air in which I flew my recent six hours it was dead calm. I nailed, at least in my mind, all the turns and the slow flight.

He is a great guy and a great teacher and seems to be much like what I perceive Tom Richards to be. I feel VERY lucky to have a great instructor that wants to fly with me alot and has TONS of flying and teaching experience.

To the original post and title, it appears that he will recognize my early flying to a point such that I won't have to redo my 10 night landings and things such as that. He will see that I can fly safely, finish up my requirements, do checkride prep and of course, get me so I can keep the nose out in front with the taildragger.

I consider myself EXTREMELY lucky to have found him.

Thanks for all the comments and help in trying to find an instructor.

Doc
 
MBDiagMan said:
I told him that I needed my long XC, night XC and 2 hours under the hood and that I needed to learn to fly again.
Click to expand...

:rofl:

We then went out and he went over the plane about as thoroughly as anyone could without taking it apart. We got it out and I managed to taxi down the taxiway, albeit like crawling on my hands and kees. I told him that after a few hours of this I might change my mind and get a nose wheel airplane. He said "if you do, don't ever get rid of this one."
Click to expand...
After a few hours, you will figure out how easy it is to fly a 140...
 
I suppose my continuing to post in this thread is a bit self serving, but it's a way to deal with my excitement after each flight training session.

We finally had another session yesterday. I got to a point where I could taxi the plane reasonably well, although much more practice is ahead of me. We did some fast taxiing on the runway as well and then we did three touch and go's. We came in to quit and I told him I wanted to taxi one more lap. I got going and he said "I'll have you solo'd in another hour." I told him that if he tries to get out after another hour I'll have him hand cuffed to the yoke. He spent some years as a helicopter cop, so I guess that was a little law enforcement humor. His comment was simply his way of offering encouragement.

He said, "you'll probably have the brakes burned off of it before you're through with the tailwheel training." I guess I'll start looking for a set of brake pads to be ready.

We had gone through a couple of weeks of no flying due to weather and his taking his wife to the doctor, but it appears that we will be stepping our flight frequency now.

The plane did great and I feel very comfortable with it in the air. As Light & Sporty says, the 140 is an easy plane to fly.

Doc
 
Last edited:
We did more taildragger practicing taxiiing and flew in REALLY ROUGH AIR Friday. It was the first time that I've flown twice in the same week in over twenty years so maybe we're starting to get going with this.

We did S-Turns some stalls and flew low and slow over the runway in the rough air. Even though I don't fly very well in rough air, I think it makes a better pilot of me because afterwards I can fly like nobody's business in smooth air.

If the weather will cooperate it looks like I will be flying three times a week. If I can keep this up, then I know I'll get finished up. It's taken MONTHS of trying to work things out so that I can fly often enough to make progress.

Doc
 
I think it makes a better pilot of me because afterwards I can fly like nobody's business in smooth air.
Click to expand...

Or at the very least it'll make you appreciate smooth air when you get it. I had an early morning flight a week or so ago and was astounded at just how smooth the air was. I had gotten so used to bumpy fidgety north Texas flying that I honestly had a moment of, "what's going wrong here?" doubt as I climbed away from the field. :D Once I was sure nothing was wrong, the next thought was, "Hey, this is nice!"

Sounds like the fun is starting. Three times a week should get you to solo proficiency very shortly, and that's what you want. From there the frequent flights still help but a drop off won't slow you down as much since you'll be over the landing hump.
 
Sorry I'm late to this thread...I just now started reading it. :redface:

FlyNE said:
Yes, he and his wife own a Citabria and fly it off of their farm. They are both two of the nicest people you'll ever meet.
Click to expand...
Awwww....aren't you sweet! :redface: :)

MBDiagMan said:
I just spoke with Tom and just as everyone said, "what a nice guy!"
Click to expand...
I remember him visiting with you. He was hoping that you would find a way to make it work down there. I can now tell him that things are going well with your training. He will be glad to hear it. :yes:

MBDiagMan said:
I suppose my continuing to post in this thread is a bit self serving, but it's a way to deal with my excitement after each flight training session.
Click to expand...
It's refreshing to read your positive posts. :) Looking forward to reading more about your progress. :)

MBDiagMan said:
The plane did great and I feel very comfortable with it in the air.
Click to expand...
That's great to hear!
 
Thanks Diana. Give Tom my best and all my thanks for the encouragement.

I hope things are picking up for your neighbors and they're able to dig themselves out from under the tornado damage.

Doc
 
The hours count, but what they are going to count most for is towards your first 100hrs of TT for insurers. You may still have retained enough knowledge that 20 hrs back then may save you 2 or 3 now...maybe....
 
Continuing my public flight training diary, we flew 1.6 hours starting at 6:30AM Saturday. Absolutely smooth air but hazy 10 mile visibility.

Did a few turns that I nailed and did lots of touch and go's. Toward the end I was taking off and landing with much less rudder "help" than before. I really got a good feel for picking up the tail and then flying off the runway at just the right times.

After we flew I parked the plane where there was water access and washed the nasty thing. It looks great now. Afterwards I taxiied to the hanger with no assistance and pivoted around into perfect position for backing into the hanger. I'm sure I'm not the smoothest taildragger taxi guy in the world, but I can now move the plane around adequately on the ramp and taxiways.

My approaches gained great improvement and my flares seemed really good. The instructor said each one was improved over the previous one.

If I could just fly more often, I think I could solo the taildragger in not too many more hours.

Doc
 
My latest training dilemma. My flight instructor is moving and I am back to square one looking for an instructor again. This is getting ridiculous. I wonder if somebody upstairs is trying to tell my not to fly.

Doc
 
Groan... I saw you mention something in another thread about your CFI fading out.

This is just a bit of a rant but I'd really like to understand how CFIs feel OK taking on students when they know, or suspect, they won't see the job through. I know things happen, and sometimes you can't help it, but this is just far too common in aviation. Even lawyers usually won't take a case when they know they won't be able to complete the job.
 
MBDiagMan said:
My latest training dilemma. My flight instructor is moving and I am back to square one looking for an instructor again. This is getting ridiculous. I wonder if somebody upstairs is trying to tell my not to fly.
Click to expand...

Nah. Happens to all of us. Hang in there!
 
nosehair said:
No, they just want to see if you reeely want to fly.
~Well, do ya? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yep! I'm determined about it. The question is, will I live long enough or die of old age before I make it happen? Will I go broke paying insurance, hanger fees, annuals,...... before it happens?

All this started back in mid March. I started flying in the only Rental plane within 100 miles. I could only get an hour a week so I decided to fix that by buying a plane so that I could use any of a number of instructors. The plane was officially mine May 18 and I've flown 4.9 hours since. I would be really afraid to calculate how much this flight time has cost per hour.

I think my plan has a hole in it somewhere.

I chatted with another instructor Saturday morning that had come to the field to fly with another new owner. At the time I didn't write down his name. I am going over there early tomorrow morning and see if he is there again and find out if he's a tailwheel guy.

There's another guy at an airport farther away from home in a different direction where they do have hanger space available. I was trying to look at an airplane he had for sale for a couple of months and he kept telling me next week, next week...... until I gave up on him. I talked to him about lessons and he said, of course, I could start flying with you in a few weeks. Well that really gives me reassurance that I could count on HIM to consistently fly with me.

Doc
 
Last edited:
ziege said:
Groan... I saw you mention something in another thread about your CFI fading out.

This is just a bit of a rant but I'd really like to understand how CFIs feel OK taking on students when they know, or suspect, they won't see the job through. I know things happen, and sometimes you can't help it, but this is just far too common in aviation. Even lawyers usually won't take a case when they know they won't be able to complete the job.
Click to expand...

Because that is the nature of the industry. Flight training is primarily provided by pilots seeking other flying work. After 1000hrs of teaching primary waiting, eating Ramen and driving a 1976 Honda Civic that doesn't have fenders to be able to get those 1200 hrs to start getting your applications considered and an airline calls, you go.

There are professional instructors who are there because they want to instruct, but they are harder to find and more expensive.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Yep! I'm determined about it. The question is, will I live long enough or die of old age before I make it happen? Will I go broke paying insurance, hanger fees, annuals,...... before it happens?

Doc
Click to expand...

Would you consider traveling and doing intensive training for 2 weeks to "git er done.."?
 
Henning said:
Because that is the nature of the industry.
Click to expand...
Negative. It is not the industry, it is those who hold that attitude that instructing is merely a stepping stone. Look for the stars in their eyes and ask them about SJS (Shiney Jet Syndrome) and avoid like the plague.
Flight training is primarily provided by pilots seeking other flying work.
Click to expand...
Yes, unfortunately. Easily avoided by a tad diligence when seeking to retain a CFI.
 
Richard said:
Negative. It is not the industry, it is those who hold that attitude that instructing is merely a stepping stone. Look for the stars in their eyes and ask them about SJS (Shiney Jet Syndrome) and avoid like the plague. Yes, unfortunately. Easily avoided by a tad diligence when seeking to retain a CFI.
Click to expand...


Uhhh, that is the vast majority of the industry. The 4 biggest 141 progams probably do more flight training than all the Pt 61s combined, and I bet half of the part 61 business is the same way. IOW, It IS the nature of the business, you have to look for the exceptions rather than the rules.
 
Henning said:
Would you consider traveling and doing intensive training for 2 weeks to "git er done.."?
Click to expand...


Yes Henning, I have hashed over such a scenario as a possible solution. Most folks say that intensive training works great for advanced ratings, but not for a beginner seeking a private.

I may have a line on another local instructor. Hopefully that will develop and I can get some flight time.

We are scheduled for triple digit heat every day this week, so that is an issue with some instructors as well. I can deal with the heat, especially once in the air with outside ventilation blowing on my face.

Doc
 
Unless you need to take passengers, All you really need is a sign off to solo.

As long as you have a current solo sign off, you can fly your plane as much as you like.

Even possible to stay this way forever.

:idea:
 
In my case, my insurance policy requires that I have CFI supervision for "each and every flight." This doesn't mean him riding with me, but he has to authorize each flight.

This supervision is required until I get my PPL.

Doc
 
Well it's continually up and down, but for now it's an "up" moment. My instructor called and said he would fly with me a couple of weekday mornings and Saturday mornings each week. He evidently is not moving too far away. At least it appears that he wants to finish me up at some, so far unknown, rate of speed.

His other student passed his checkride Saturday, so maybe that is what has helped.

He also said that he thought that I would be solo'd in another 3 to 6 hours.

I wonder if once solo'd in the taildragger, that serves as my tailwheel endorsement?

It seems as if this whole process has been up and down in a sort of chicken one day and feathers the next cycle. I sure hope I can eat chicken for awhile 'cause I sure haven't enjoyed the feathers.

Doc
 
MBDiagMan said:
Well it's continually up and down, but for now it's an "up" moment. My instructor called and said he would fly with me a couple of weekday mornings and Saturday mornings each week. He evidently is not moving too far away. At least it appears that he wants to finish me up at some, so far unknown, rate of speed.

His other student passed his checkride Saturday, so maybe that is what has helped.

He also said that he thought that I would be solo'd in another 3 to 6 hours.

I wonder if once solo'd in the taildragger, that serves as my tailwheel endorsement?

It seems as if this whole process has been up and down in a sort of chicken one day and feathers the next cycle. I sure hope I can eat chicken for awhile 'cause I sure haven't enjoyed the feathers.

Doc
Click to expand...

He should sign off your tailwheel endorsement with your solo endorsement. That will be good because then you can keep flying local whenever you want. Do 10 landings twice a day for ten days. You'll never doubt a landing again. A phone call, "These are the conditions, this is what I want to do..." can be considered supervision as can a set of rules to go by.
 
Last edited:
Great advice Henning! Thanks very much.

10 landings a day, maybe not exactly consecutive days, but maybe within a two week period should be very doable for me.

The tip on what constitutes supervision is exactly what I was looking for.

Doc
 
I flew 1.7 hours this morning. Did some really good S Turns, a 180 and a 360. I nailed them with good altitude control et al.

We then went over the runway about 3 feet high a few times and then I did 7 stop and go's. Had an aha moment when I brought the tail up too fast, but managed to gather it up with right rudder. I think I improved my approaches and managed the rudders myself on take off several times and sort of did on some landings.

I still have some work to do before solo/tailwheel endorsement, but I am now FLYING and making improvement.

Doc
 
Are you doing steep turns at 60* yet? They're important because they familiarize you with 2 Gs. You're plane is stressed for 3.8 or 4.2Gs, I forget if the 140 is Utility or not. Either way, 2 Gs is safe to pull and you should be familiar with it. Many people unfamiliar with 2 Gs will not pull it in an unusual attitude because they are afraid of the increasing force. If you are fast and nose down, you want to be pulling 2-2.5 gs to prevent overspeeding and to get the nose up. Doing a 60* bank steep turn frightens a lot of people, they aren't used to the force and they don't pull. Another thing is that with the extra force you also feel your rudder work more accutely.
 
I have not yet done 60's in my 140, but I did them a few times in the 150 a few months back. All my flying then was in rough air, so they were ragged, while my turns in smooth air in the 140 I've done pretty well. I don't think they will be any problem for me.

When I flew 20 years ago I was a bit wimpy about such things. For whatever reason, since I started flying again, I am not nearly as timid as I was back then. I'm not sure if that is good or bad. I like to think that I simply started my current training phase with a better and more secure attitude about it.

Doc
 
Last edited:
MBDiagMan said:
My latest training dilemma. My flight instructor is moving and I am back to square one looking for an instructor again. This is getting ridiculous. I wonder if somebody upstairs is trying to tell my not to fly.

Doc
Click to expand...

Hey Doc. Try posting in the Tailwheel Corner forum on the DFWPilots board.

http://www.dfwpilots.com/board

I bet you'll get lots of instructor leads.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I have not yet done 60's in my 140, but I did them a few times in the 150 a few months back. All my flying then was in rough air, so they were ragged, while my turns in smooth air in the 140 I've done pretty well. I don't think they will be any problem for me.

When I flew 20 years ago I was a bit wimpy about such things. For whatever reason, since I started flying again, I am not nearly as timid as I was back then. I'm not sure if that is good or bad. I like to think that I simply started my current training phase with a better and more secure attitude about it.

Doc
Click to expand...

Aviation is not for the timid....
 
HELLOOOOOO, Tailwheel Rudder Control!!!!!!!!!!!!

This morning I started getting the hang of the rudder pedals. I'm like the little kid that just learned to keep the bicycle going on two wheels. I'm wobbling along, but making it work!

I've got a ways to go, but I'm flying and things are coming together!

Doc
 
MBDiagMan said:
HELLOOOOOO, Tailwheel Rudder Control!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
:rofl:

It was easy for me back in the old days. Seems like more effort is required now that I am old and slow.

Or perhaps it's the bifocals.

Yea, that's it. The glasses are the problem.
 
Went up at 7AM this morning with a 10 knot wind straight down the runway. Once airborne it was so rough it was like being in a rowboat in the middle of the ocean in a Typhoon. I didn't make any headway, but I got to fly. I did handle the tailwheel rudders pretty well though, so at least I think I burned that into my brain a little more.

It's not a bad thing to train in rough air some, but I feel like I've had more than my fair share of it.

I did learn one interesting thing today though. My instructor was the helicopter pilot for the old Dallas TV show back in the eighties. He even gets a pension from the Screen Actors Guild.

I'll get more out of it next time.

Doc
 
I bought a taildragger! What was I thinking?!?!

I spent 1.5 hours, mostly in the pattern, this morning. I never do ALL the things necessary at the same time to take off and land a taildragger. I can handle the rudder pedals, I can do a good approach, I can flare well, I can bring up the tail right on take off, I can roll out without groundlooping(so far.) The problem is doing ALL these things at the SAME time!

I'm not sure that I have enough time left on Earth to get to a point where I can do all these things at the same time. It certainly is making me feel like a complete Klutz!

I go up again tomorrow at 7AM. The good news is that I'm flying several times a week, at least this week I am.

Doc
 
MBDiagMan said:
I bought a taildragger! What was I thinking?!?!

I spent 1.5 hours, mostly in the pattern, this morning. I never do ALL the things necessary at the same time to take off and land a taildragger. I can handle the rudder pedals, I can do a good approach, I can flare well, I can bring up the tail right on take off, I can roll out without groundlooping(so far.) The problem is doing ALL these things at the SAME time!

I'm not sure that I have enough time left on Earth to get to a point where I can do all these things at the same time. It certainly is making me feel like a complete Klutz!

I go up again tomorrow at 7AM. The good news is that I'm flying several times a week, at least this week I am.

Doc
Click to expand...


Don't worry! It'll all "click" at some point and it'll come together.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I bought a taildragger! What was I thinking?!?!

I spent 1.5 hours, mostly in the pattern, this morning. I never do ALL the things necessary at the same time to take off and land a taildragger. I can handle the rudder pedals, I can do a good approach, I can flare well, I can bring up the tail right on take off, I can roll out without groundlooping(so far.) The problem is doing ALL these things at the SAME time!

I'm not sure that I have enough time left on Earth to get to a point where I can do all these things at the same time. It certainly is making me feel like a complete Klutz!

I go up again tomorrow at 7AM. The good news is that I'm flying several times a week, at least this week I am.

Doc
Click to expand...

The fact that you are getting time now, consistently, is great to hear. If it makes you feel better, AFTER I solo'd and did all the XC dual I spent about 5-7 lessons brushing up on landings in order to do my second solo. My thought is that if you feel you are at a plateau now, wait about 5 lessons and then report back. I doubt you will still feel that way in 5 lessons.

Keep going Doc.

Kimberly
 
MBDiagMan said:
I bought a taildragger! What was I thinking?!?!

I spent 1.5 hours, mostly in the pattern, this morning. I never do ALL the things necessary at the same time to take off and land a taildragger. I can handle the rudder pedals, I can do a good approach, I can flare well, I can bring up the tail right on take off, I can roll out without groundlooping(so far.) The problem is doing ALL these things at the SAME time!

I'm not sure that I have enough time left on Earth to get to a point where I can do all these things at the same time. It certainly is making me feel like a complete Klutz!

I go up again tomorrow at 7AM. The good news is that I'm flying several times a week, at least this week I am.

Doc
Click to expand...

That's because you are still thinking in differences between things rather than similarities, and you're concentrating on correcting the plane's attitude rather than your your attitude.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top