Buying land

[PoAdeleted5]

deleted.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Self sufficient? Forget cattle/crops...ECOTOURISM, B&B's!... .huntiing leases are lucrative (in TX).

Tips? BUY LOW SELL HIGH.
(just buy whenever you see me selling!!)

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Larry:

It's hard to tell you where to start. If you're out in the middle of no where, there are so many variables. As you get closer to where things are developed, more is clear. In a highly developed area, all one really needs to do is follow comparable sales.

It it's raw land you want, try to pick an area and really get to know it. Find out what things sell for. There are different things that make the land valuable: water; access; topo; crops, etc. If you're looking for more appreciation, find out which direction things are growing and get in front of it.

If you start talking to people, follow an area closely and watch what makes things vaulable there, you'll pick it up pretty quickly. If you're buying it to use and enjoy for awhile, being an investment guru isn't as important.

Get a good broker; talk to a few; you'll identify with one and they will generally give you a good steer.

Dave

 

[AirBaker]

I also have wanted to do something similar. Buy a parcel of land oriented in the right directions for the winds. Build a home/hangar. Especially after that article in Flying/AOPA (forgot which one) about living in your hangar.

Would still have to be accessible by 4x4. Throw up some solar panels, DirecTV, and call it done! Preferrably near a river too.

 

[wsuffa]

Larry,

I'm not Dave, but I'll stick my nose in anyway.

I own a tract of rural, mountain-top land. I bought it a number of years ago because it was priced righ, and because it was something I always wanted. I purchased it on initial offering - even before the private road was put in.

Conventional wisdom says to buy it because you plan to use it, don't buy it because you plan to retire there someday 20 years in the future. Or buy it because you will have steady income (wich may be incompatible with your personal use of it, ergo airstrip). I generally concur, though I only get to my place a couple of times a year, I have the plans drawn up to build a cabin there.

The financial appreciation is hard to predict, but I would advise - strongly - against putting all your financial eggs in one basket. Having the property as part of a portfolio is a good thing. Having it as the only componant is a bad thing. You cannot count on appreciation, though it is likely (and mine has appreciated quite nicely), events may dictate that rural land will not increase in value the same way a "hot" market residential property might.

Land is also much less liquid as an asset. It takes longer to sell. If it has a house on it, or it is residential property, it is more liquid, but not as liquid as the stock market. FWIW, lenders will usually require a higher down payment on raw land, for a reason: it's harder to sell.

If you're buying as an investment, you need to do your research. If it's a great deal investment-wise, you can bet that others are looking at it the same way, and you usually won't get a bargain. If you're buying it because you will use it, or it does provide income, then you figure out whether it's worth it to you.

I didn't buy mine as an investment, it was for "use". It's appreciated nicely, but I don't plan to sell anytime soon. I COULD build and move there, but it's pretty isolated from the nearest city, so from a social life, it would be tough.

Think it through, do your research, and if I can help you, don't hesitate to PM or email me.

bill

 

[Richard]

Tips? BUY LOW SELL HIGH.
(just buy whenever you see me selling!!)

Attaboy, Dave. Thanks for the laugh. Just remember, there will come a day that you'll be able to laugh about it. Today's my day.

 

[Richard]

Larry, keep in mind that being in CA you may be giddy with what's happening in appraised values and perhaps inadvertently project that onto other regions. Many areas of the country do not enjoy such fortune. I think any serious consideration would start with you more specifically defining what you want out of the land.


Also, to have and to hold are two separate things.

All things equal, I would not dissuade a person from owning land.

 

[Jim Chumley]

This is probably in Dave Siciliano's alley.

I've had the urge to aquire real estate ... for some time now. ... My wife just rolled her eyes. ...and how does one get educated on such things?

You may have to put in a well for water. That could get expensive.
You will probably have to use a septic tank for sewer. Be careful of what you flush.
Forget broadband internet access.
Plan to drive a ways for groceries and take cooler(s) when you go.

How to get educated? Better listen to your wife.

Good luck,

Jim

 

[RotaryWingBob]

You may have to put in a well for water. That could get expensive.
You will probably have to use a septic tank for sewer. Be careful of what you flush.
Forget broadband internet access.
Plan to drive a ways for groceries and take cooler(s) when you go.
Jim

True (except for broadband), but so what?

My measure of a good place to live is one that:

1. Doesn't have any widewalks.
2. Doesn't have town water.
3. Doesn't have town sewers.
4. Doesn't have a local police force.

And that's the kind of place we live. 60 odd acres of woods surrounded by another 1,100 acres owned by the Nature Conservancy or otherwise under conservation easement. The nearest anybody can build anything is roughly 1/2 mile!

Not a single sidewalk anywhere in the township...

And, oh yes, broadband. DirecWay satellite. You just have to clean the dish out after a heavy snow

Satellite TV too, of course!

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I like Bob's description, here is ours:
Nearest stop light....90miles
Our idea of a traffic jam... more than two cars in the drivethru at the bank.
Murder? ..... one 'crime of passion' about every 10 years.

AND we get wireless broadband!

 

[Anthony]

We're thinking of buying some land here in Colorado to eventually build on. In general, unless you buy just before the expansion of suburban sprawl and the infrastructure is all in place or very close, its probably not going to appreciate as much as you'd think. I'd rather buy an income property, then sell it when we're ready to build here, but my wife wants the emotional gratification of having some land with a nice view.

Dave and Bill nailed it as ususal.

And Bob has a beautiful property in a VERY desirable area.

 

[gkainz]

I like Bob's description, here is ours:
Nearest stop light....90miles
Our idea of a traffic jam... more than two cars in the drivethru at the bank.
Murder? ..... one 'crime of passion' about every 10 years.

AND we get wireless broadband!

You got drivethru at your bank? Big time, Dave!

I grew up in a town of 2000 people in SD - the only drive thru was when old man Davis hit the gas instead of the brakes in front of the feed store!

 

[Anthony]

I grew up in a town of 2000 people in SD - the only drive thru was when old man Davis hit the gas instead of the brakes in front of the feed store!

HA! I think I want to live in a place like that some day!

 

[Bill]

You got drivethru at your bank? Big time, Dave!

I grew up in a town of 2000 people in SD - the only drive thru was when old man Davis hit the gas instead of the brakes in front of the feed store!

My Mom grew up in Manns Choice, PA, an extremely small town. It was great fun going there to visit as a child, spent many happy summer weeks plowing fields and enjoying country life. We'd sit in the rocking chairs on the front porch during thunderstorms and watch the lightning crack down on the trees on the ridge at the opposite sid eof the valley. Afterwards, the sun would shine and the air would be so fresh and clear and clean.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Manns-Choice-Pennsylvania.html

 

[Everskyward]

You may have to put in a well for water. That could get expensive.
You will probably have to use a septic tank for sewer. Be careful of what you flush.
Forget broadband internet access.
Plan to drive a ways for groceries and take cooler(s) when you go.

I bought some land, had a house built, and moved out to the "rural suburbs" about 13 years ago. Well and septic are no big deal. I've had the well pump replaced once which was fairly expensive but not nearly as much as if I had been paying a water bill all those years. You have to be a little careful but not unreasonably so about the septic.

I finally got broadband internet through a dish and their system of towers. It has some bugs sometimes because I'm just barely line of sight, but it's basically OK and much better than dialup.

Groceries I buy on the way home from work, or there is a store in the small town about 5 miles away.

I like where I live but I sometimes wish I hadn't moved so far out. I was going through a country mouse phase at that time which is pretty much over. If you or your wife are the type that like to go out in the evening to dinner, shopping or to see friends, living far away from everything can make that a time-consuming proposition. People don't visit me either because they think I live halfway to Kansas. I think that's why I became an internet junkie.

 

[AirBaker]

You may have to put in a well for water. That could get expensive.
You will probably have to use a septic tank for sewer. Be careful of what you flush.
Forget broadband internet access.
Plan to drive a ways for groceries and take cooler(s) when you go.

How to get educated? Better listen to your wife.

Good luck,

Jim

True statements, but dont let these stop you. I realized after this post that much of this is true for me already. I live in the 'county' east of the Bay Area and the only utility we have is electricity and phone. For broadband internet I've got Sprint Broadband direct which is just a wireless cable modem. We also have a well/septic/DirecTV.

There was a neat house near Pine Mountain Lake by Yosemite that was being built. Solar power, a small generator, and a shed full of batteries made up it's electrical power. There happened to be a cell site accross the Tuolumne river canyon. DirectWay and DirecTV were also used. All in all this was very similar to my idea of a COOL house.

There were 2 problems though. First, the land it was built on was formerly squatted (word?) upon by some criminals who were rumored to have burried some large sums of cash. (I'm not making this up) After they were hauled off to jail, the money was never recovered or so the story goes. The problem was that every guy in town with a shovel or a tractor would get liquored up and go searching for this treasure.

The second problem, which I can only guess is related to the first, was that the house turned out to be just as flamable as any other. It burned to the ground. I imagine it was possible that they figured the loot was burried under the house and burned it to the ground. (Guess it depends if it had a slab floor?)

Good luck!

 

[gkainz]

(snip) People don't visit me either because they think I live halfway to Kansas.

From where I'm sitting, you ARE halfway to Kansas!

 

[gkainz]

HA! I think I want to live in a place like that some day!

You've visited, at least...

Custer, SD
Summer:2000 residents and 10,000 tourists
Winter: 1200 residents and 8 lost tourists

 

[Everskyward]

From where I'm sitting, you ARE halfway to Kansas!

Coincidentally, I previously lived in Arvada so I know what you mean! It's a good 1 + 15 away... in good traffic.

 

[gkainz]

Coincidentally, I previously lived in Arvada so I know what you mean! It's a good 1 + 15 away... in good traffic.

good traffic ... I think that's gone the way of the dinosaur. I think I begin to see "good traffic" somewhere near Chugwater, WY heading north on I-25. I'm near 58th and Indiana, so as long as I can stay out here on the west part of town (and not fight the ski traffic up and down the hill) traffic is generally ok, I guess.

the irony of buying land struck me on this today. In 1990 we looked at buying some mountain property. Lots of choices around $100 - $200k within an hour of town. Now it's 3-4 hours from town and darn close to $1m ... timing is everything and mine stinks!

 

[Anthony]

You've visited, at least...

Custer, SD
Summer:2000 residents and 10,000 tourists
Winter: 1200 residents and 8 lost tourists

Yep, that's right! We really liked Custer.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Bought some commercial property in the 1990s out in the most sparsely populated county in Washington while thinking I wanted to return to the country roots of my early youth from living in the state's most densely populated city since graduating from school. It was a growing recreational area in the sunny, semi-desert rain shadow of the Cascades, so in spite of dwindling "real" employment such as lumber and ranching, property has gone up steadily.

I never did give up living in Seattle, so the most I'd stay out there in the country was 3 to 5 days then drive back the 5 hours to the city and then of course later fly back & forth over the North Cascades (~1.1 to 1.8 hr. depending on VFR v IFR routes).

It's just a little too quiet as a steady diet out in the sticks and everybody knows where & what you're doing all the time (or they'll make something up) so for me the best was to take both worlds and, it got me into flying regularly as a tax deduction because I "had to" for business and to "save time". It was a unique and demanding enough of an adventure flying to and from the region of the property for me to write the manuscript of a flying novel.

 

[fgcason]

It's hard to tell you where to start.

That's my #1 big problem right now.

Is there a sensible way to search for land that's a little off the beaten path? I just don't have the resources to call every single realtor in the country and there has to be an easier way. I need something, or at least a useable method, that works something like realtor.com does for houses. The difference is that I'm looking for something more along the lines of inexpensive undeveloped land that's not parceled out as tract housing developments. One of the problems seem to be that the only stuff that's listed is what the realtors deem acceptably profitable to them and if I'm not talking $100K+ right off, they will literally hang up on me.

I'm currently looking for a handful of acres within reasonable driving distance of an A&P school. Where specifically isn't an issue, I can move literally anywhere at this point. It has to be dirt cheap and generally out of the way for privacy so I don't offend some housing development residents. Resale/profit is not an issue, I simply don't care about that. I don't even care if Farmer Lou's cows are walking through my yard. I just need a place to park by derrier that's not $700+/month with some power hungry management types breathing down my neck every 0.002 seconds because I broke another of their 10,000 unwritten draconian rules. Utilities of various types would be nice but if it just has water I can handle the rest of what I need myself.

I guess I'm searching wrong but I keep running across the same junk and I know there has to be more out there. (As an recent example from a realtor I talked to: There's no way anyone can convince me that Montana has only 30 pieces of land for sale) I just don't know how to go about look for what I'm trying to find. I have got to be doing something wrong.

Suggestions?

 

[astanley]

I want this piece of property. 4k acres, a lake, middle of nowhere. My kind of place. Just need a runway so I can fly down to Portland for dinner.

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[wsuffa]

Is there a sensible way to search for land that's a little off the beaten path?

Frank,

I think realtor.com has the ability to search for vacant land that happens to be listed in the system. A lot of rural land is NOT listed in the MLS.

Sometimes, stuff pops up on EBay...

I've also looked at this site: http://www.landandfarm.com . There are several similar sites that you can find with a Google search.

Probably the best way is to identify the areas that are of interest to you, then engage a local broker to help. Nothing, but nothing, takes the place of local knowledge in the search. In any rural area, there are brokers that specialize in vacant and farm land. Not all of them put information on the internet. I'd also check the local paper (often online) for the locales of interest.

The guy that sold me my property made a business of picking up huge tracts of vacant land at auction, clearing the title, replatting (5 acres to 150 acres, depending on location), and then selling the land. He was a broker in a nearby city that started doing this for a living. He did advertise in the Washington, DC and Richmond newspapers....

 

[Dave Siciliano]

That's my #1 big problem right now.

Is there a sensible way to search for land that's a little off the beaten path?

Frank:

It's pretty tough to help with your aim so broad. If you're willing to move anywhere near and A&P school. Guess you need to see where they are and try to narrow it down to a couple locations. From there, I'd talk to folks in the area and see what the pros and cons of different locations are; determine where you want to be and contact land owners. Most tax districts have a tax ownership map. See if someone will sell you a chunk of land or if they know someone that would. You need access and basic utilities (could be provided or a septic tank and well for water). Also look into phone and electric. Some folks have had trouble getting those services. Then see how close basic needs are, like schoos, church, work, retail stores, etc.

Most growth is generally along roads (at least since Henry Ford started stamping out cars). Get either into or out of a growth corridor (depending on where you'd like to be in the future).

Dave

 

[Len Lanetti]

That's my #1 big problem right now.

Is there a sensible way to search for land that's a little off the beaten path?

---snip---

Suggestions?

Trade-a-Plane has 3 real estate classified sections...I use the search feature that you can find under their Site Map link to show all new listings every few days...often adverts are placed without distinction between the 3 classifications so I tend to search all three at once....I look mostly when I'm blue sky'ng...I occasionally see some rather interesting listings...about once a month I'll see an entire airport for sale for significantly less than what I could get for my house...they usually have some house/home type provisions....usually they are in some place like Frozen Bone MT...the big claim to fame for the nearby town of the last advert I looked at was that they were the location of the Bosch cold weather test facility...first think I think is that it isn't cold enough in Germany so they come to this place.

Len

 

[fgcason]

A lot of rural land is NOT listed in the MLS.

Nothing, but nothing, takes the place of local knowledge in the search. In any rural area, there are brokers that specialize in vacant and farm land. Not all of them put information on the internet. I'd also check the local paper (often online) for the locales of interest.

The guy that sold me my property made a business of picking up huge tracts of vacant land at auction, clearing the title, replatting (5 acres to 150 acres, depending on location), and then selling the land. He was a broker in a nearby city that started doing this for a living. He did advertise in the Washington, DC and Richmond newspapers....

Thanks.
The MLS stuff is what seems to send me into the depths of despair. Some realtors act like that's the end all of existence which it's not. From what I've found in 7+ months of searching is that the stuff that's not in the MLS is more along the lines of what I'm after.
Possibly some of my problem is that I'm searching multiple regions. MT ID KY AK. It's a bit rough to scout the areas out in person when they're 1000+ miles away. Lack of responses from realtors while trying to obtain local knowledge is probably what's killing me. Instead of generic realtors who are into turning houses around, it sounds like I need to figure out how to find someone like your broker.

I'm very new to this land hunting game and in a bit over my head some days...like all of them.

 

[wsuffa]

Instead of generic realtors who are into turning houses around, it sounds like I need to figure out how to find someone like your broker.

I'm very new to this land hunting game and in a bit over my head some days...like all of them.

Just 'cause I'm picky... technically he wasn't MY broker, he was brokering for himself. I just happened across his ad. No different than calling the broker name on the "for sale" sign outside a house.

My recommendation is twofold: 1) look at the "land specific" listing sites on the internet, and know that a lot of properties are not listed, and 2) make a trip to the area of interest for a weekend and drive the market. Get the names of 2 or 3 brokers that seem to have signs up on land for sale. Then make some calls.

You might also subscribe or look online for the local newspapers in those areas to get broker names.

FWIW, I get letters or mail about 3 times a year from local brokers where I own my land asking if I want to sell because they have interested buyers. Sort of the "B***** T*****" method.