Open letter to the AOPA

iflyforfun

iflyforfun

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
321
Location
Hong Kong
Display Name
Display name:
iflyforfun
copy of e-mail just sent

From: Joe Blow <joeblow@yahoo.com>
To: "memberservices@aopa.org" <memberservices@aopa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2011 4:43 PM
Subject: my membership

Member # 01154317
I've been a member for approximately 15 years, have the AOPA branded credit card, have the legal services program and own my own airplane. I think I'm pretty much the target demographic for the AOPA. I am writing to inform you that I will not only will I not be renewing my membership, I will actively cancel my membership. The reason for this is that your recent announcement of the Aircraft Partnership Program re-enforces all of my concerns about AOPA. While I firmly believe that AOPA does much good for our sport, I can't begin to tell you how frustrated I am with the organization.

The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association now has a program to "to reduce the overall costs of aircraft ownership". You expect me to PAY for this service. To add insult to injury, this exact program was FREE before partnering wtih AOPA. AOPA is a service organization that I just paid $85 to for my annual membership. I have a need for this new program, but it sure isn't worth $10 since I'll be very picky about any potential partner, live in a fairly small community and don't expect to really find a partner ... though I'd like to try.

So to summarize.
* I had access to a valuable service that was FREE.
* I just paid $85 to service organization, AOPA, for my annual membership.
* My personally funded service organization, AOPA, purchases this valuable service and promptly attempts to charge me for the service.

You can play all the word games you want about the sustainability and reach of the Aircraft Partnership site prior to AOPA, but in the end, AOPA just wronged me.
* I don't think that the $85/year membership fee is extravagant ... it is reasonable.
* I think AOPA plays an important role is keeping our sport viable in the long-term.
* I think that AOPA has completely lost touch with its membership and now acts more often as a large organization run by managers more interested in their own personal welfare that the welfare of their membership.

I hope the leadership of AOPA gets their head out of their back ends before they destroy this valuable organization. Until you stop trying to squeeze every penny out of every opportunity and stop acting like a FOR PROFIT organization, you won't get another penny from me. AOPA has a large reserve fund that could easily be used to launch this new initiative, but instead elects to squeeze membership again.

It is with frustration and a heavy heart that I choose to exit this organization.
 
iflyforfun said:
copy of e-mail just sent

From: Joe Blow <joeblow@yahoo.com>
To: "memberservices@aopa.org" <memberservices@aopa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2011 4:43 PM
Subject: my membership

Member # 01154317
I've been a member for approximately 15 years, have the AOPA branded credit card, have the legal services program and own my own airplane. I think I'm pretty much the target demographic for the AOPA. I am writing to inform you that I will not only will I not be renewing my membership, I will actively cancel my membership. The reason for this is that your recent announcement of the Aircraft Partnership Program re-enforces all of my concerns about AOPA. While I firmly believe that AOPA does much good for our sport, I can't begin to tell you how frustrated I am with the organization.

The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association now has a program to "to reduce the overall costs of aircraft ownership". You expect me to PAY for this service. To add insult to injury, this exact program was FREE before partnering wtih AOPA. AOPA is a service organization that I just paid $85 to for my annual membership. I have a need for this new program, but it sure isn't worth $10 since I'll be very picky about any potential partner, live in a fairly small community and don't expect to really find a partner ... though I'd like to try.

So to summarize.
* I had access to a valuable service that was FREE.
* I just paid $85 to service organization, AOPA, for my annual membership.
* My personally funded service organization, AOPA, purchases this valuable service and promptly attempts to charge me for the service.

You can play all the word games you want about the sustainability and reach of the Aircraft Partnership site prior to AOPA, but in the end, AOPA just wronged me.
* I don't think that the $85/year membership fee is extravagant ... it is reasonable.
* I think AOPA plays an important role is keeping our sport viable in the long-term.
* I think that AOPA has completely lost touch with its membership and now acts more often as a large organization run by managers more interested in their own personal welfare that the welfare of their membership.

I hope the leadership of AOPA gets their head out of their back ends before they destroy this valuable organization. Until you stop trying to squeeze every penny out of every opportunity and stop acting like a FOR PROFIT organization, you won't get another penny from me. AOPA has a large reserve fund that could easily be used to launch this new initiative, but instead elects to squeeze membership again.

It is with frustration and a heavy heart that I choose to exit this organization.
Click to expand...

True story: I just rejoined AOPA about a year ago and had been happy with them. But recently, I've been getting the "You're a bad pilot because you haven't joined the Partnership program yet" emails and letter, so I figured I'd check it out.

Seeing that I have to pay for a service that if I don't subscribe to makes me a bad community member doesn't make me a very happy person. I'm not ready to cancel again, but I get your frustration, because you used a free service that AOPA bought and made a paid subscription.

For me, I just don't like being guilted into joining something that costs me money to do....especially when the core reason behind the service is to reduce the cost of GA overall.
 
SkyHog said:
I'm not ready to cancel again, but I get your frustration, because you used a free service that AOPA bought and made a paid subscription.
Click to expand...

I'll be the first to admit that my passionate frustration isn't logical, but it just pi$$ed me off so much to see an $85 charge on my CC within 10 minutes of finding out that they'd converted a free service to a for-fee service ...

You all can trot out the "it's a great value" and "nobody speaks for us like AOPA" lines and I'll agree with you. The membership fee isn't unreasonable and they do a pretty good job with those yahoos in Washington, but I've just had enough.

T'aint logical, but I just fired them.
 
i didn't know that AOPA was a non profit
 
Technically you can turn any company into a non-profit just by paying the staff more money. ;)

I don't know why but it seems like the bigger any "service" organization gets, the less service they provide as a part of their base membership.

AOPA, ARRL, both seem to want more of my money for less value every year.

EAA, seems better. Especially for builders. Way better magazine too.

Cessna Pilot's Assn seems very good for owners but never has been all that great for Cessna *Pilots*. They're really more of an owner/operator value unless you're a geek and like reading Service Bulletins and ADs. (I do. AOPA certainly wouldn't tell me in a timely fashion that my aircraft might need service even though that "O" in their name would indicate otherwise.)

Out of those, CPA is the most likely group to have saved me a buck or three in any given year. One phone call to them can give options for maintenance that none of the non-type clubs can touch.
 
I am not happy about AOPA sponsoring a medical screening service. This appears to be a revenue generating stream for AOPA but may cause problems if it generates any false positive results. I believe that any medical screening tests should be ordered by a person's primary care physician.

http://www.lifelinescreening.com/aopa
 
It's not just $10. It's $10 per MONTH, or $120/year.

They ought to provide a money-back guarantee if you don't find a partner acceptable to you or your insurance company.
 
Gary F said:
I am not happy about AOPA sponsoring a medical screening service. This appears to be a revenue generating stream for AOPA but may cause problems if it generates any false positive results. I believe that any medical screening tests should be ordered by a person's primary care physician.

http://www.lifelinescreening.com/aopa
Click to expand...
You're too kind. Given the potential for damage against one's certificate is enough reason for me to avoid any such program. What will be this service's stance in defending the certificate holder in the eventuality of a false positive (example given)? To wit: referral to AOPA legal plan after the fact is not a viable option, especially to the member not signed with the legal plan.
 
SkyHog said:
True story: I just rejoined AOPA about a year ago and had been happy with them. But recently, I've been getting the "You're a bad pilot because you haven't joined the Partnership program yet" emails and letter, so I figured I'd check it out.
Click to expand...
I must not read my e-mails because I have never heard of the Partnership Program...
 
I probably shouldn't jinx myself, but I'm impressed that the NRA hasn't bombarded me with junk mail looking for me to join.

Not so with AOPA. Recently AOPA insurance sent out a scam-like junk mail telling me my insurance was about to expire. Only problem is that I don't insurance through AOPA and had renewed my aircraft insurance the previous month.
 
I let my membership of 10 years intentionally lapse this year and have no desire to rejoin.
 
I have to say that I'm in agreement with the consensus here as well. I was very happy to join AOPA immediately when I started the student pilot process. I really feel lately that I've been bombarded by scam like mailings from them that very much turn me off of the organization. I have no problem paying a membership fee for an organization that is going to forward the cause of General Aviation, but at some point I'm not going to continue to support a non-profit that doesn't embody my own vision of what that organization should be.
 
SCCutler said:
Many non-profits are not charitables. Example: Pilots of America.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but PoA qualifies as a 501(c)(7) social organization I believe... I don't know that AOPA would.

Heh... I just realized I've been on the board of directors of a 501(c)(3), a 501(c)(7), a for-profit S-corp, and a for-profit C-corp. Does that mean I've hit for the cycle? :dunno:
 
I paid to advertise my airplane for sale why not for a partnership? I don't need the service so maybe the user should support the cost rather than the general membership. I'm not up on the medical issue, have to check into that.
 
alaskaflyer said:
So, to be clear, you were actually using this service prior to it being acquired by AOPA?
Click to expand...

Yes, I was actually using the service before its association with AOPA. I would not have been using it if it were not free. You can call me cheap, but truth is I am the very definition of a marginal consumer for this service - very little value for me (but some value). I'll also be the first to admit that under the AOPA umbrella, a service like this will get much more exposure and thus make those using it more likely to find success. Finally, I'll admit that there is something of an argument to be made along the "I don't use it, you want to use it, why should the general fund pay for it" line of reasoning.

It's a funny thing because it was really a bit of the camel/straw thing. For an airplane OWNER, $10/month just isn't that much ... I may throw that much strained fuel away each month :wink2:. That said, it's a great idea that belongs under the AOPA organization, could truly impact flying costs ... list of reasons it belongs in AOPA ... but isn't that really why AOPA exists? Forget me, why shouldn't we as AOPA members expect such a service to exist? Why shouldn't we expect AOPA to be doing everything possible to increase the number of active owners and pilots? If AOPA isn't interested in using my base dues to actively create a support structure for ... I don't know ... aircraft owners and pilots, why they heck am I wasting my money???

One can argue "But they only charge you if you are trying to sell, there is a benefit to you that you should pay for?" Well, there is a benefit to the buyer as well. With more pilots having access to (more) reasonably priced flying time, there is a benefit to the whole system. Isn't that exact why AOPA exists, to support and grow the system?

My very first ownership experience was a random group of 4 people who got together to purchase a 172. Two of the 4 were friends, the other 2 of us just other pilots. Via that partnership, I was able to essentially own my own 172 to $15,000 down and $50/hour wet (back in 2002) for a very well equipped 172N. That was a bargain and it was the first time in my life I flew very regularly (and I'd had my license since 1992). It led me to join another partnership after I moved and eventually led to the purchase of my own airplane. That first partnership was critical in getting me down the road as a pilot ... and it occurred due mostly to dumb luck in stumbling across a group of people (first partnership) and knowing someone who knew someone (second partnership). I think the concept that AOPA has for the program is OUTSTANDING. I think it can hugely impact flying costs. I think it is why I always believed AOPA existed and is why I've been a member for over 15 years. I think if they are going to try and extract more money out of me for doing what I'm already supporting them to do, for doing what justifies their existence, screw them ... I quit.
 
I guess I am on the other side. I see your point, but I respectfully disagree.

I saw this as quite a valuable service that I MIGHT be interested in. $10/month seems awfully cheap if it might enable me to cut some of my flying expenses in half. Yeah, maybe it used to be free, but I never heard of it before, and I suspect that not many others have either. Under AOPA it should be much more practical and widely used and thus more valuable. You don't ALWAYS get what you pay for, but you very rarely get something of value that you DON"T pay for.

Just my penny's worth!

Edited to add: Perhaps we could lobby AOPA to increase the fee, but ONLY if you are successful in finding a partner. I wouldn't mind paying a couple of hundred dollars if I found a partner that will pay half my $400/month hangar fee and other expenses. I just paid $33k for an engine and another $30k for avionics. $10, or even $500 is a sneeze next to half of that.
 
Last edited:
JOhnH said:
I guess I am on the other side. I see your point, but I respectfully disagree.

I saw this as quite a valuable service that I MIGHT be interested in. $10/month seems awfully cheap if it might enable me to cut some of my flying expenses in half. Yeah, maybe it used to be free, but I never heard of it before, and I suspect that not many others have either. Under AOPA it should be much more practical and widely used and thus more valuable. You don't ALWAYS get what you pay for, but you very rarely get something of value that you DON"T pay for.

Just my penny's worth!

Edited to add: Perhaps we could lobby AOPA to increase the fee, but ONLY if you are successful in finding a partner. I wouldn't mind paying a couple of hundred dollars if I found a partner that will pay half my $400/month hangar fee and other expenses. I just paid $33k for an engine and another $30k for avionics. $10, or even $500 is a sneeze next to half of that.
Click to expand...
I don't understand your viewpoint. You were not interested in this service when it was free, but when it is a $10/mo then you are interested in it?

The OPs main complaint seems that AOPA took over something that was free, started charging for it but added no additional value to it.
 
JOhnH said:
Perhaps we could lobby AOPA to increase the fee, but ONLY if you are successful in finding a partner. I wouldn't mind paying a couple of hundred dollars if I found a partner that will pay half my $400/month hangar fee and other expenses. I just paid $33k for an engine and another $30k for avionics. $10, or even $500 is a sneeze next to half of that.
Click to expand...

I don't think such an approach would have bothered me near as much. If I posted and found a partner that was acceptable, I wouldn't have any problem pay several hundred for the service ... as you say, it would pay for itself in the first month. That said, I'm not pay a monthly fee on the off-chance. In this case, I'd be paying for value received. I also wouldn't feel like AOPA was ducking their charge to lower cost and enhance value to aircraft owners and pilots. Is AOPA trying to deliver value or extract cash? I'm voting with my wallet but respect the opinion of others who disagree.
 
ScottM said:
I don't understand your viewpoint. You were not interested in this service when it was free, but when it is a $10/mo then you are interested in it?

The OPs main complaint seems that AOPA took over something that was free, started charging for it but added no additional value to it.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you don't understand. I didn't say I wasn't INTERESTED in the service when it was free. I said I didn't KNOW ABOUT the service when it was free. I only know about it now because AOPA bought it. And I suspect there are a LOT MORE PEOPLE that know about it now, and THAT makes it much more valuable.
 
I wonder why they are not charging to list yourself as "seeking a share"?
 
iflyforfun said:
I'm voting with my wallet but respect the opinion of others who disagree.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I didn't want to argue. I just wanted to share my opinion and point of view. And maybe offer a viable alternative that would be accepted by more members.
 
I signed up to that program around 3-4 weeks ago (It was available on the AOPA site at that time).

It was and still seems to be free to create a profile when looking for an aircraft owner and in return, an aircraft owner can still find a partner without incurring any costs.

You just create a login and search for people, messaging others.

It seems you only have to pay if you want to publish the sale of your aircraft with pictures etc.
 
IFly, I can understand your frustration. At times AOPA has in my opinion been non responsive such as when I tried to get some mention for the Fredericks who reopened a closed airport in the UP of Michigan. I went so far as to attend an AOPA annual meeting and request on the record that they be recognized. But then other times I can pick up the phone and get a call back and good conversation with senior people at AOPA. Look when you think about it the AOPA web board ( the old one) was really the start of POA and our web board.

I believe that without AOPA there is a very good chance that our abilty to fly in the good ole USA would be at worst legislated away or at best so severely curtailed or laden with fees, restrictions and more regulations than we already have that it would be cost prohibitive for all but the most wealthy to fly. So my opinion is that even if they do somethings that are not so great their main goal is super important to we pilots.

Organizations like AOPA need money to not only exist but also to lobby local, state and federal governments, create PR projects etc. I would think that dues don't come close to making a dent, Advertising in the publications and on the web help as do their ancillary programs such as their insurance brokerage and now the partnership program. I recall from one annual meeting that the largest single source of income they get comes from the AOPA credit card and that has dropped off dramatically in the past several years. Look I don't use it anymore. I used to use it a ton because it gave a 5% discount at FBOs man was that great, but then the bank changed from MBNA I think to BOA and in my opinion they ( the bank) took away all incentive for me to use the card plus I found BOA very very user unfriendly.

I was a member of APA when it started and was free. I posted somewhere that I thought it was a great benefit that AOPA took it over not realizing that it because a partial pay item. I think that the partnership program can do a great deal toward keeping folks flying and thus further AOPA's mission. Folks looking to join a partnership should not have to pay nor should folks looking to start a partnership or club, but if your selling a share in your plane you would have to pay one of the other sites TAP or ASO to advertise.

Look I really understand your concern about being nickle and dimed. We pilots tend to be cheap though, we complain about paying a $5-$10 tiedown fee when we willingly shell out twice that to park in a garage if we go to dinner in the city we live near.

Can I suggest that before you quit you wait fora response from AOPA to your letter?
 
JOhnH said:
I don't understand what you don't understand. I didn't say I wasn't INTERESTED in the service when it was free. I said I didn't KNOW ABOUT the service when it was free. I only know about it now because AOPA bought it. And I suspect there are a LOT MORE PEOPLE that know about it now, and THAT makes it much more valuable.
Click to expand...

Ding we have a winner. It may or may not be a good idea to charge a fee but there is no question it is much more useful now, at least in theory. Perhaps the OP would now be successful where he wasn't before? Oh, he is leaving. Oh well.
 
There's a lot of reasons one might want to quit AOPA... But this one's pretty weak, IMO. If I were going to quit, I'd quit because they spend more than I send them each year sending me junk mail and having telemarketers call me. I know I can call and get off those lists, but they'd still be doing that to everyone else. I'd rather see my money be used on something other than trying to get me to send them more money.

jhausch said:
I wonder why they are not charging to list yourself as "seeking a share"?
Click to expand...

Because nobody would do it. I signed up, and I see you did too... Would you have signed up for $10/month? I wouldn't have.
 
Joe B said:
It's an online marketplace for shares in aircraft partnerships.

More here.
Click to expand...
According to that site...

The process is simple. Pilots can create a free confidential “Partner Profile” to help determine their compatibility with potential co-owners. To sell shares of an aircraft, memberships in a flying club, or cooperative or fractional ownership opportunities, AOPA members can create a “Share for Sale” listing for only $10 a month ($20 per month for non-AOPA members).
Click to expand...
I don't see anything wrong with that. If you were going to advertise a share or a whole aircraft for sale anywhere else you would need to pay something.
 
Send copies of your bank statements verifying they amounts you deposited from directors' fees. Only then will we be able to determine your slugging percentage.

flyingcheesehead said:
Yeah, but PoA qualifies as a 501(c)(7) social organization I believe... I don't know that AOPA would.

Heh... I just realized I've been on the board of directors of a 501(c)(3), a 501(c)(7), a for-profit S-corp, and a for-profit C-corp. Does that mean I've hit for the cycle? :dunno:
Click to expand...
 
Did I? I thought the site locked up on me when I was having issues with the airports section..... I guess I need to see whats"took".....

(Problem could have bee related to my browser, Chrome, or it could have been on their end.
 
jhausch said:
Did I? I thought the site locked up on me when I was having issues with the airports section..... I guess I need to see whats"took".....

(Problem could have bee related to my browser, Chrome, or it could have been on their end.
Click to expand...

Chrome worked for me... But yeah, you're on there. I didn't look in depth, just hovered over the pin on the Google Map view and saw your username.

There are a LOT more people there than there were before AOPA took it over. I was really surprised by the number of people on there who would be great candidates for the flying club. And I sent messages to a bunch of them. For free. :yikes:
 
Everskyward said:
I don't see anything wrong with that. If you were going to advertise a share or a whole aircraft for sale anywhere else you would need to pay something.
Click to expand...

+1

A seller can place an ad at trade-a-plane for $35 per month, or on AOPA's partnership site for $10 per month. Nobody makes them do it.

Buyers browse the ads for free.

There's nothing wrong with that.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Chrome worked for me... But yeah, you're on there. I didn't look in depth, just hovered over the pin on the Google Map view and saw your username.

There are a LOT more people there than there were before AOPA took it over. I was really surprised by the number of people on there who would be great candidates for the flying club. And I sent messages to a bunch of them. For free. :yikes:
Click to expand...

I just went back and finished my listing. Most of it was there. The airport autofill stuff was not working when I was there last time.

I did a little looking, but will go back there when I have more time...

I did not see the map-search, but will check that out next time.

PS - Lots of people looking, but I did not find any "selling". I wonder if this would present an enterprise opportunity for someone?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top