Why the Hangar

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

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Jaybird180
What better place to ask this question than hangar talk forum???


Reading an article about my favorite plane, and the author bashes the idea of owning this type of plane without hangaring it. Kinda like looking down on those that keep it parked on grass, outdoors, etc.

I've also seen articles on buying where a key word is if the plane was hangared or not as an indicator of it condition, type of care, etc.

Does anyone have any real data on the value of hangaring a plane vs not?
Is it really cost effective?
 
I suppose it depends on the cost of the hangar and the replacement or repair value of the aircraft.
 
Since I have no idea of hangar costs, lets say a $100k airplane. At what point does it makes sense? Can you give some examples?
 
It also matters where the airplane is kept. In the Northeast the Hangar will protect against the snow and other nasty things in the winters. In the Southwest, as long as you shade the cockpit and budget for new paint every so often, storage outside isn't a factor.

A good cockpit cover like the ones made by Bruce or Kennon will work well to protect the interior and the avionics - I'd recommend that as a minimum no matter where you keep your aircraft.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Since I have no idea of hangar costs, lets say a $100k airplane. At what point does it makes sense? Can you give some examples?
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Well, a hangar is environment, incident, and security control. Security because locks keep honest people honest. Incident if it's in a hangar alone, less chance of some inadvertently damaging it (think taxi error). Environment is the elements themselves.

Environment is usually the biggie. Wind, sun, ice, et al. can play havoc with the delicate parts of a plane. I live in Wisconsin and you couldn't pay me to leave a US$100k toy outside.

--edit

Hangars run the gamut for pricing depending on location.
 
Hard to put a price on arriving for a flight and finding a clean, dry airplane. Exactly in the condition you left it last flight.

I was outside for a year after my old airport closed. Never again if I have anything to say about it.

I do have a cover for travels. As a minimum I'd have those mylar window inserts. Heat is he** on interiors.
 
Another thing that degrades in sunlight is the plexiglass windows.
 
Environment includes hurricanes, tornadoes, hail, sea air, etc. I get a break on my insurance because I live in Colorado with all the tornadoes & hail and keep the cherokee hangared.
 
murphey said:
Environment includes hurricanes, tornadoes, hail, sea air, etc. I get a break on my insurance because I live in Colorado with all the tornadoes & hail and keep the cherokee hangared.
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Good example. Saw a plane on eBay recently that had another plane flipped onto it's wing by wind. Just because your tie downs are good...
 
Jaybird180 said:
What better place to ask this question than hangar talk forum???


Reading an article about my favorite plane, and the author bashes the idea of owning this type of plane without hangaring it. Kinda like looking down on those that keep it parked on grass, outdoors, etc.

I've also seen articles on buying where a key word is if the plane was hangared or not as an indicator of it condition, type of care, etc.
Click to expand...

It's typically but nowhere near universally true that pilots who give their planes a lot of TLC tend to keep them in hangars, at least at home. That doesn't mean there aren't conscientious airplane owners who choose to forgo the protection of a hangar and there are plenty of airplanes in poor condition that have been sitting in a hangar all their life but it's definitely a trend.

Does anyone have any real data on the value of hangaring a plane vs not?
Is it really cost effective?
Click to expand...
Both sides of that equation are greatly affected by a few variables. Two of the bigger ones are hangar cost and climate. The typical 40x30 foot T hangar can run anywhere from $50 or less to $750 or more per month. Winter weather in the northern states pretty much precludes tying down in the grass if you expect to use the plane December through February but an airplane can be pretty well protected against damage if it's just going to sit. Summer in Texas will cook the paint off the wings two to three times as fast as the same paint would deteriorate indoors. Avionics tend to have fewer problems when not subjected to the typical 150F+ cabin temps found in airplanes sitting in the sun on a hot summer day in the south. A cover helps with that but not as much as a roof.

There's also the issue of physical damage from high wind, hail, and other planes and vehicles that are far more likely to affect an outdoor plane than one in a hangar.
 
The old man't airplane used to live on a tie down. No fun in the winter trying to get enough snow off the wings and tail so that the rest would sublimate in a day or two so you could go flying. No lights. No power for pre-heat either. No getting out of the wind. No storage for tools. Had to shovel a path to the taxiway.

I like being in a hangar. With power.
 
Jaybird:

I'm the oddball here. I keep my airplane tied down outside. For me, the cost of the hangar considering the value of the airplane says to me it makes sense to tie down outside. Hangars here are $200/mo. I can do a lot of flying for $2,400. I used to (with a different airplane) rent a hangar. I saw several times my airplane in the hangar with condensation all over it. If the roof of the hangar is not insulated, I think it might be better to be outside. At least the sun can dry things off. I use a cover and keep a good wax job on the paint. Not for everybody, but it works for me. There are a lot of airplanes sitting in hangars at my airport that are rarely flown. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 
Funny how some assume having a hangar is a "choice."

I suppose I could have a hangar. If I bought an airstrip. Or moved 120 miles away.

That said all things being equal I'd rather have one than not. But even in the winter in Alaska you can fly every day without one.

48237f66-edaf-1118.jpg
 
somorris said:
Jaybird:

I'm the oddball here. I keep my airplane tied down outside. For me, the cost of the hangar considering the value of the airplane says to me it makes sense to tie down outside. Hangars here are $200/mo. I can do a lot of flying for $2,400. I used to (with a different airplane) rent a hangar. I saw several times my airplane in the hangar with condensation all over it. If the roof of the hangar is not insulated, I think it might be better to be outside. At least the sun can dry things off. I use a cover and keep a good wax job on the paint. Not for everybody, but it works for me. There are a lot of airplanes sitting in hangars at my airport that are rarely flown. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
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Personal decisions are great, but provide additional info that contributed to your decision - such as Where Are You! The effect of the environment on the aircraft in a tie-down outside on the Florida coast is very different than tie-down in Montana is very different than Oklahoma is very different .......
 
Here is just one of the many hazards. Last year, a morning after a windy storm came through, I went to the airport and someones door had blown off. I don't want exposure to hail, or dust storms either. As others have said, it sure is nice to have it in the condition I last left it. I think it saves on insurance, but I don't know how much. That should offset the cost some.
 

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somorris said:
Jaybird:

I'm the oddball here. I keep my airplane tied down outside. For me, the cost of the hangar considering the value of the airplane says to me it makes sense to tie down outside. Hangars here are $200/mo. I can do a lot of flying for $2,400. I used to (with a different airplane) rent a hangar. I saw several times my airplane in the hangar with condensation all over it. If the roof of the hangar is not insulated, I think it might be better to be outside. At least the sun can dry things off. I use a cover and keep a good wax job on the paint. Not for everybody, but it works for me. There are a lot of airplanes sitting in hangars at my airport that are rarely flown. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
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$200/month? heh. I had a hangar at KBED but bailed out of it once ma$$port raised the monthly rent to over $600/month. Think about what an extra $6,000 per year can buy.
 
You're in the wrong place for "cost effective" if you're interested in General Aviation. It isn't cost effective and hasn't been since the airlines deregulated and the interstate system was fleshed-out.

So the question become how much do you want to spend and what level of convenience do you want? I find it very nice that when I go to the airport my airplane is dry and clean, and I can work on it (if necessary) in an environment without wind or rain. Also, I can store my tools, flight gear, and cleaning supplies there without undue hazard. Finally, when I do go somewhere for a few days, the hangar is a nice place to park my car.

I pay about $250/month for this convenience.
 
murphey said:
Environment includes hurricanes, tornadoes, hail, sea air, etc. I get a break on my insurance because I live in Colorado with all the tornadoes & hail and keep the cherokee hangared.
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Just curious, what percentage of the hangar is paid for by the insurance reduction? We're hangared here also, but I've never seen a breakdown of the discounts applied.

In fact, we just got our 2011 insurance bill and it was $200 cheaper than 2010. We figure it was either because of the last LLC owner to cross the 250 hour mark, or my time-in-type in the 182 is higher than when I bought in, which was the 10 hour minimum in-type to not have a *drastic* jump in cost. But that one should have taken effect last year if that were the case.

It'd be interesting to start a new thread comparing insurance rates, perhaps?
 
I keep the two planes I'm in charge of hangared, but they have lived outside for periods of time when necessary. Here's what I notice:

- When outside, the rain gets in. These airplanes are old, they leak. This happens, and then the carpets get wet, and little drops of water will get in and get other papers wet. If not properly addressed, this can lead to mold and mildew, which you really don't want (not to mention your papers getting wet, and you probably need those papers). You may not fly in heavy rain, but if parked on the ramp, your plane will get exposed to it. A hangar prevents this.

- A hangar is a nice place to keep airplane-related items. Cleaning stuff, oil, charts, dog cages (ok maybe I'm the only person who keeps dog cages in his hangar). This is very convenient, especially if your airport isn't like mine and allows things like oil changes to be performed by the owner.

- Wiping snow and frost off the plane before flying is a real pain. Doubly so if your plane was parked outside in freezing rain, and now you've got weird ice all over.

- The paint, interior, and windows will last longer. This is probably where the biggest cost savings comes from.

Do you need to do it? No, and I don't look down on anyone who keeps his or her plane outside. But I won't do it for any extended period of time. I try to limit it to no longer than overnight.
 
I tied an aircraft up outside in the upper Midwest for three or four years and saw dramatic worsening of its overall condition. The paint didn't look too good when I got it, but looked horrid when I rid myself of it. I had several avionics failures, and it got wet all the time, even through the expensive cover I bought for it. I was only able to preheat through the generosity of the airport.

In my hangar, my aircraft looks like it did the day I got it. It never gets wet, and preheats automatically. I showed up yesterday, ran a space heater inside the cockpit while I did my preflight, and I was ready to go with a warm airplane.

My hangar is also the cheapest storage space I've ever found, and I have taken advantage of that fact from time to time.

A friend of mine one said that airplanes belong indoors. Based on my limited experience, I agree.
 
steingar said:
My hangar is also the cheapest storage space I've ever found, and I have taken advantage of that fact from time to time.
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Very true, though sadly some airports are willing to lease "storage space" instead of airplane hangars.

There's one near here where 2 of 10 hangars are filled with everything but airplanes.
 
dmccormack said:
Very true, though sadly some airports are willing to lease "storage space" instead of airplane hangars.

There's one near here where 2 of 10 hangars are filled with everything but airplanes.
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As the number of pilots drop you can expect to see this more and more. I never see anyone out at my airport anymore.
 
Well, the number of airplanes wanting to be hangared exceeds the supply -- there is a waiting list at every airport within 40 miles of me.
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Not that way here, Dan. There are probably 15 empty T hangars at my airport.
 
I used to keep my camper in the T hangar with my Citabria and later my Pitts. That was a cheap hangar for here, only $265 a month. But the roof leaked, the doors were broken and the electrical wiring was a fire waiting to happen. Then I moved into a nice new hangar for $500 a month and couldn't keep my camper there any more. That combination priced me out of the market right there.
 
dmccormack said:
Well, the number of airplanes wanting to be hangared exceeds the supply -- there is a waiting list at every airport within 40 miles of me.
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It is all about location. The population is moving to the cities and metro areas. Which means that, in addition to pressure because of losing airports as they turn into shopping centers and industrial parks, the remaining airports don't have space to add the hangars to hold all the aircraft that are massing around the cities.

But if you go 100 miles outside medium and large cities, hangars are far easier to find.
 
TMetzinger said:
It also matters where the airplane is kept. In the Northeast the Hangar will protect against the snow and other nasty things in the winters. In the Southwest, as long as you shade the cockpit and budget for new paint every so often, storage outside isn't a factor.

A good cockpit cover like the ones made by Bruce or Kennon will work well to protect the interior and the avionics - I'd recommend that as a minimum no matter where you keep your aircraft.
Click to expand...

In the DESERT southwest, we have this spring phenomenon.
We call it WIND!! And when it arrives (all of March thru all of May and often into June) it brings with it a LOT of sand ((like in Sand Blasting)) and that sand often does much worse things much quicker than the UV from the unfiltered sun (for which we use a silvered device we call a "sun shade"). Lift spoilers to attach to the top of wings is also a good device to have if hangers aren't available (@ $400-$600 per)
 
kyleb said:
It is all about location. The population is moving to the cities and metro areas. Which means that, in addition to pressure because of losing airports as they turn into shopping centers and industrial parks, the remaining airports don't have space to add the hangars to hold all the aircraft that are massing around the cities.

But if you go 100 miles outside medium and large cities, hangars are far easier to find.
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I live in Fayette County, Pennsylvania and have a hangar in Greene County, PA.

Not much urbanization going on here.

:no:
 
Ken Ibold said:
I used to keep my camper in the T hangar with my Citabria and later my Pitts.
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When you say "Camper" do you mean a trailer, or a motor coach? I assume trailer...

KAPA has a strict "no trailers" rule for the ramp areas. Zero. None. They don't want the liability of people running trailers into aircraft, etc... I guess.
 
dmccormack said:
Well, the number of airplanes wanting to be hangared exceeds the supply -- there is a waiting list at every airport within 40 miles of me.
Click to expand...

I took two years to get mine, but that was a long time ago. Still, even if I lost the aircraft I might consider hanging onto the hangar. Like I said, inexpensive storage. I bet there is quite a bit of that going on.

Our ramp used to be full of tied own aircraft. Now there's only three, and they don't move.
 
Areeda said:
Another thing that degrades in sunlight is the plexiglass windows.
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I suspect that the foil windscreen shades that people use accelerate that process.

I had a foil shade made for my pickup's windshield. For some reason I had to replace the windshield several times over the years due to cracking. Then one hot sunny day I was using a hose to rinse off the windshield and it cracked right before my eyes! This time, there were no chips in the windshield to explain the cracking. I figured out that the foil inside was probably causing the air trapped between the foil and the windshield to get really hot, thereby heating up the glass. I threw the foil away.

So I'm thinking that an exterior cover will probably make a windscreen last longer, in addition to everything else.
 
steingar said:
I took two years to get mine, but that was a long time ago. Still, even if I lost the aircraft I might consider hanging onto the hangar. Like I said, inexpensive storage. I bet there is quite a bit of that going on.

Our ramp used to be full of tied own aircraft. Now there's only three, and they don't move.
Click to expand...

Hangars are inexpensive???
 
denverpilot said:
When you say "Camper" do you mean a trailer, or a motor coach? I assume trailer...

KAPA has a strict "no trailers" rule for the ramp areas. Zero. None. They don't want the liability of people running trailers into aircraft, etc... I guess.
Click to expand...

have they had to deal with anyone who trailers their aircraft to the airport?
 
denverpilot said:
When you say "Camper" do you mean a trailer, or a motor coach? I assume trailer...

KAPA has a strict "no trailers" rule for the ramp areas. Zero. None. They don't want the liability of people running trailers into aircraft, etc... I guess.
Click to expand...
Trailer. Pop-up, actually. It fit nicely under the wing of the Citabria. With the Pitts it was a little more challenging.
 
denverpilot said:
When you say "Camper" do you mean a trailer, or a motor coach? I assume trailer...

KAPA has a strict "no trailers" rule for the ramp areas. Zero. None. They don't want the liability of people running trailers into aircraft, etc... I guess.
Click to expand...

One of the hangar lease provisions at KBED is that the stuff in the hangar actually has to be related to the aircraft. So, a trailer to move the airplane would probably be ok. A camper of any kind would probably not be ok.
 
Bob Noel said:
One of the hangar lease provisions at KBED is that the stuff in the hangar actually has to be related to the aircraft. So, a trailer to move the airplane would probably be ok. A camper of any kind would probably not be ok.
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This airport is OK with non-aviation stuff in there as long as you also have an airplane in there. Of course, there are four with just boats in them.
 
tonycondon said:
have they had to deal with anyone who trailers their aircraft to the airport?
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Never seen anyone do it. I would assume they might make accommodations to get just inside the gate and unload there, immediately removing the trailer from the ramp afterward.

I may ask around EAA 301 and see if anyone's ever seen it done, out of curiosity.
 
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