Looking seriously at this one

azure

azure

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azure
I haven't told anyone on the board yet but I have been thinking about stepping into the ownership minefield for a few months, and looking seriously for a well-equipped IFR travel plane since mid-February. I'd like to stick to make/models that I'm fairly familiar with, and that means Cessnas, either a 172, 182, 182RG, or Cardinal RG. My plan is to buy and then try to sell shares (1 or 2). If I can't find partners within a year or at most two, sell it at hopefully not too much of a loss. My acquisition cost upper limit is $90-95k.

Right now I'm looking seriously at a Cardinal RG with a dream panel... GNS 480, GMX 200, Sandel eHSI, STEC-30 with PSS, XM datalink, plus a JPI 700 engine analyzer and a UAT ADS-B transceiver. It also has a backup IFR GPS (Trimble) and Argus moving map. Its airframe is mid/high time (4000+ hours) and has a zero time engine. Paint is custom but >10 years old and the seller says the interior needs some work. He is asking $100k.

Thoughts?
 
Good luck. Don't purchase too soon as half the fun is looking...


My first thoughts are:


THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICTURES:D
 
I'd be more inclined to look at the best airplane for the intended missions rather than worrying about familiarity. After a few hours in the seat you'll become familiar with whatever you're flying at the time, so it doesn't make much sense to spend a hundred grand for a 130-knot airplane if you have a 160-knot airplane need.

If you haven't flown those trips in anything (yet) the difference may not be as apparent as it will after doing it a few times. I've heard many "if I had only known then what I know now" stories over the years, and encourage any prospective owner to be sure they're getting what they need.

azure said:
I haven't told anyone on the board yet but I have been thinking about stepping into the ownership minefield for a few months, and looking seriously for a well-equipped IFR travel plane since mid-February. I'd like to stick to make/models that I'm fairly familiar with, and that means Cessnas, either a 172, 182, 182RG, or Cardinal RG. My plan is to buy and then try to sell shares (1 or 2). If I can't find partners within a year or at most two, sell it at hopefully not too much of a loss. My acquisition cost upper limit is $90-95k.

Right now I'm looking seriously at a Cardinal RG with a dream panel... GNS 480, GMX 200, Sandel eHSI, STEC-30 with PSS, XM datalink, plus a JPI 700 engine analyzer and a UAT ADS-B transceiver. It also has a backup IFR GPS (Trimble) and Argus moving map. Its airframe is mid/high time (4000+ hours) and has a zero time engine. Paint is custom but >10 years old and the seller says the interior needs some work. He is asking $100k.

Thoughts?
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The idea of selling in a year or two with "not much loss" is probably a little short sighted. Michigan use tax is 6%, so you're out $5400 on a $90K purchase as soon as you sign the paper unless you're able to sell for more than the purchase price. You can probably get better odds on other bets.

I own a FG Cardinal and live in the GR area. They are a pretty neat bird if they fit your mission. I would give Wayne's advice some thought. If you decide the Cardinal is the right plane for you, you should join CFO. Maybe you already have. If not, check it out at cardinalflyers.com. Also, there is a very good A&P with lots of Cardinal experience here locally.
 
I would agree with Wayne. No reason to buy a plane that you're familiar with now unless it happens to be what you want/need. You'll gain familiarity with any other plane in a short period of time and it'll be a non-issue.

A Comanche 250/260 or a Mooney would be on my list as better options, but I prefer the low wing and the way that they fly. I would try to go for a flight in one first and get an intro - you can buy ones cheap in good shape, ask Ed how that worked out for him (hint: pretty well). Take some more time to look around. There's no rush unless you find a great bargain, and even then there are always bargains around.

Also, I wouldn't spend your upper limit. The first year is always the most expensive, so you want to have reserves set aside for that. Even if you don't have maintenance requirements, you'll have upgrades you'll want to do (engine monitor, etc.), so it's nice to have the cash laying around for that.
 
Hi everyone, thanks for the feedback and advice!

I see the point about familiarity being maybe not so important. My thoughts were mainly: transitions to very different handling aircraft are when many people prang, and time in make and model will help to keep insurance reasonable. I have about 100 hours in a Cardinal RG. I've looked at Mooneys as well but find that most planes newer than about 1975 with the kind of panel I'm looking for are asking well over $100k. Also I really do not like single door airplanes, or ones with doors on only one side (especially the WRONG :D side).

For my typical mission, a trip of at most 400 nm, the difference between a 130 kt plane and a 160 kt plane is still under an hour of travel time. As a non-equity partner in a Cardinal RG a few years ago I made quite a few of my typical trips. The difference would be more important on much longer trips, but I wouldn't make those very often. I'll always want more speed than I have, but do I really need it? Within the two models I'm seriously considering, 177RG vs 182RG, the time difference is even less and the Cardinal wins out easily in fuel economy. I also feel that the Cardinal has the sleekest looking design of any piston single I've seen. I would still consider the right 182RG but haven't seen it for sale yet. I'm getting tired of looking.

Ted, yeah I hope not to spend my upper limit, mostly for mx issues as I am trying to find a plane that has just about everything I would want already. This one seems to have it, maybe a little too much.

Pilot117, thanks, I've been on CFO since '03. The real Cardinal expert is Bob Russell in Kenosha, who is there in the GRR area? I'll be asking on CFO if anyone knows of a Cardinal-savvy pre-buy mechanic in NY (Hudson valley) as that's where this plane is located.

Yes, I know I'll lose 6% off the top. Can't be helped. The problem is I know that mx costs will eventually eat me as sole owner. Not in a year or two unless I'm VERY unlucky, but beyond that I can expect it to start to get painful. I do need at least one partner, and there's a chance I will not find him/her. But I've always wanted to do this and am in a position to make a go of it now. If I buy the right plane I will have at least a couple of good years of ownership. That's why I said the worst case will be "hopefully not too big a loss".

I wish I could post the pictures but I only have ones sent to me privately by the seller. As far as I know he has not posted any publicly.
 
Hey, you like the 177RG, buy it - they are very nice airplanes. I have 40 or 50 hours in the RFC Dallas Flying Club's 177RG, and other than really wishing for 30 or 40 more HP on hot days, there's nothing there not to like.
 
Another thing I'd consider when looking at plane speeds and times would be headwinds. Even if a typical trip is 400 nm, in a 130 kt plane that ends up being a bit over 3 hours. That's fine, but it doesn't take much for that 130 kt plane to turn into a 100 kt plane, making it a 4 hour trip. You may have enough fuel for a 3 hour trip but not a 4 hour trip, then you have to make a stop, adding more to the time and cost. When you factor in IFR reserves and approach times, especially if you need to get to an alternate, that can add up fast. Now, you may say that won't happen very often, but the first time it does, you'll find yourself wishing you'd gotten the 160 kt plane. Now, you also just may not want to do IFR XCs for which that would be an issue, but it's something to consider. I've had times when I flew the Mooney and saw 100 kts GS from 145 ktas.

That said, if the plane is what you want and you're comfortable with the price, then buy it. ;)
 
I did my first annual with Bob Russell in Kenosha. I was very happy with Bob's knowledge, work, and customer service. Having said that, I'm also very satisfied with the work Matt Kuhns @ Benz Aviation in Ionia (Y70) has done for me, and Matt is local.
 
While the Cardinal is probably the only high wing I would ever own, 100k seems a bit high of an asking price for a pre-1980 piston single in this market. There are plenty of 150kt+ airplanes out there for 55k or so. Then you've got 40k in maintenance reserves. With a proper prebuy inspection, that 40k in maintenance should stretch out over 8+ years of ownership. (I"m not talking engine reserves, or avionics reserves, I think those are the most retarded cost guestimates there are in ownership since nothing guarantees an engine to make TBO).

I will say that when I started looking at planes the first few I looked at were fixed gear 182s, because I said that "crawling up on the wing from the wrong side to get in is stupid." I bought a Cherokee, and then a Comanche. So I was right where you were at 6 years ago. I'm not going to say buy a Comanche, or buy a Mooney, or don't buy a Cardinal, (I would say don't buy a Sierra however) but to tack on what to Wayne and Ted said, there's much better options out there for 400nm+ trips out there than a 177RG. A 30kt headwind is brutal when you are a 130kt plane, if you can get a 160kt plane for less $$ (which you can right now, no doubt) I would seriously consider it.

If you want a ride in the Comanche just to see how it is, I can arrange that, as soon, as I can get it back from the mx shop that is. Annual just got done, but I don't have a ride over there or back. That's a hint for someone in the thread. :p


Hey Geico - who's selling an RV10 for less than 100k?
On GPS today I see this for RV-10 prices:
195k, 168k, 188k, 155k, 175k, 207k, 172k, 245k!!!!, 209k, 240k, 239k.

I don't know where you get your buy an RV it's cheaper mantra, but in my world a 100k Cardinal (4 seats) is cheaper than a 199k (avg price of above) RV-10 (4 seats). Hell, even with a 5,000/yr annual maintenance/inspection, it takes 20 years to break even, and that's assuming the -10 has a $0 mx cost. Lay off the glue fumes.
 
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EdFred said:
While the Cardinal is probably the only high wing I would ever own, 100k seems a bit high of an asking price for a pre-1980 piston single in this market.
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Yep, Cardinal RGs are nice, but they're not that nice. When I see ads like that, I see someone that really doesn't want to sell, and someone that's going to be a waste of time to deal with.


Trapper John
 
EdFred said:
While the Cardinal is probably the only high wing I would ever own, 100k seems a bit high of an asking price for a pre-1980 piston single in this market.
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Ed, this hits the nail on the head for me. 1970s vintage singles don't seem to sell for much over 75k, though I know of at least one that sold in the 85-90k range a few years ago. It had a nice panel, though no WAAS and was by today's standards, outdated.

There are plenty of 150kt+ airplanes out there for 55k or so.
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I'd love to see one that isn't at least 50 years old, or 40-45 and a fixer-upper or with original radios. My bare minimum stack is two digital navcoms, WAAS or WAAS-upgradeable (i.e. Garmin 430 or 530), and I'll pay a little more for a slaved HSI system, engine monitor, and a decent A/P. Those are all things I would otherwise have to upgrade to and I can NOT afford to do that. I expect to pay 80-85k in today's market for what I want. This one looks really exceptional on paper, but I still can't justify 100k. The bottom line to me though is what I could sell it for, if it came down to that.

BTW though I envision trips up to 400nm and (rarely) longer, 200-250nm each way is more typical for me. Headwinds could still be an issue, I agree, especially IFR. Otherwise, I'll need a pitstop long before fuel becomes an issue. We did PHN-C59-PHN without refueling (5 hours flight time), though that was always VFR.

Thanks folks, keep 'em coming! (Certificated only, though, no experimentals. :no:)
 
azure said:
Ed, this hits the nail on the head for me. 1970s vintage singles don't seem to sell for much over 75k, though I know of at least one that sold in the 85-90k range a few years ago. It had a nice panel, though no WAAS and was by today's standards, outdated.
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I'm not going to say get a Comanche, but I did get mine, and going down your checklist..

isn't at least 50 years old - 51 when I bought in, but it's also the first year, you can get one younger, but with proper mx, age isn't as much of an issue as it is with say cars.
My bare minimum stack is two digital navcoms, - got it
WAAS or WAAS-upgradeable (i.e. Garmin 430 or 530),- got it
slaved HSI system - got it
engine monitor - got it
and a decent A/P. - don't got it.
(5 hours flight time), - and I still have almost 2 hours of fuel left.

I bought mine for 45k. I added tip tanks for 9k (including install and paint), and if I added an S-TEC 30 for 13k that still only puts me at total of 67k, and I've got a 150kt+ plane. Pretty colors? No, though Spike likes it.

There are planes out there than have nearly everything you want for the price you are looking for - or less.
 
azure said:
Ed, this hits the nail on the head for me. 1970s vintage singles don't seem to sell for much over 75k, though I know of at least one that sold in the 85-90k range a few years ago. It had a nice panel, though no WAAS and was by today's standards, outdated.


I'd love to see one that isn't at least 50 years old, or 40-45 and a fixer-upper or with original radios. My bare minimum stack is two digital navcoms, WAAS or WAAS-upgradeable (i.e. Garmin 430 or 530), and I'll pay a little more for a slaved HSI system, engine monitor, and a decent A/P. Those are all things I would otherwise have to upgrade to and I can NOT afford to do that. I expect to pay 80-85k in today's market for what I want. This one looks really exceptional on paper, but I still can't justify 100k. The bottom line to me though is what I could sell it for, if it came down to that.

BTW though I envision trips up to 400nm and (rarely) longer, 200-250nm each way is more typical for me. Headwinds could still be an issue, I agree, especially IFR. Otherwise, I'll need a pitstop long before fuel becomes an issue. We did PHN-C59-PHN without refueling (5 hours flight time), though that was always VFR.

Thanks folks, keep 'em coming! (Certificated only, though, no experimentals. :no:)
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50 years old, sure...but this is WAY more plane for the money.

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_402016_Bonanza+Mint+Condition.html
 
EdFred said:
I don't know where you get your buy an RV it's cheaper mantra, but in my world a 100k Cardinal (4 seats) is cheaper than a 199k (avg price of above) RV-10 (4 seats).
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The difference is you need STC / PMA dollars to buy the Cardinal, but with the RV you can use Auto-Zone dollars.
 
A point of consideration is the Cardinal seems to hold it's value a little better than other planes out there. I think it has to do with the fact they are unique and there aren't an abundance of good ones out there. I do agree $100K seems unrealistic. It never hurts to talk with the seller and explain your personal opinion and limitations to see if there is a common meeting ground that would allow a deal to be made.

The nice thing about the Cardinal and the Mooney is they achieve relatively good speeds and performance on 4 cylinders. All of the 160kt planes require 6 cylinders. You do often get more useful load with the extra power, so 6 isn't all bad. Those extra cylinders are likely going to cost more at some point, when and how much is somewhat unknown.
 
pilot117 said:
A point of consideration is the Cardinal seems to hold it's value a little better than other planes out there. I think it has to do with the fact they are unique and there aren't an abundance of good ones out there. I do agree $100K seems unrealistic. It never hurts to talk with the seller and explain your personal opinion and limitations to see if there is a common meeting ground that would allow a deal to be made.
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Thanks, this seems like a good way to proceed. :yesnod: I agree that Cardinals tend to hold their value well, it's another of the factors that biases me in their favour.

I'm trying to carefully valuate the avionics in this plane but AOPA's Vref tool doesn't know anything about the GNS 480, GMX 200, STEC 30, SN-3308, or ADS-B equipment (this plane has a GDL 90, a UAT transceiver). It also valuates ANY wx datalink at $3800 which is actually more than the retail price (uninstalled of course) for this one's unit, a GDL 69. Does anyone know a good avionics valuation resource?
 
I would look at the particular plane over the age. I've seen old planes with gorgeous avionics stacks, but an original stack from the 80s is still not something I'd want. Corrosion can be an issue, but once again, depends on the plane. Ed gave a really good synopsis of what you can get with your money that, to me, represents a better value. Plus, Comanches are just a blast to fly.
 
azure said:
Thanks, this seems like a good way to proceed. :yesnod: I agree that Cardinals tend to hold their value well, it's another of the factors that biases me in their favour.

I'm trying to carefully valuate the avionics in this plane but AOPA's Vref tool doesn't know anything about the GNS 480, GMX 200, STEC 30, SN-3308, or ADS-B equipment (this plane has a GDL 90, a UAT transceiver). It also valuates ANY wx datalink at $3800 which is actually more than the retail price (uninstalled of course) for this one's unit, a GDL 69. Does anyone know a good avionics valuation resource?
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Find the price for the item new, add 40% for installation, then deduct that whole amount by about 60% for what it's worth in the selling plane.
 
When you find an old airplane you can afford that already has a fancy panel you really like, don't be hasty in your opinion of value.

Instead, separate the pricing equation into two parts. Calculate the airplane and engine time and condition along with all the airframe bells and whistles (STC's mods, etc.) in one column to obtain a SWAG of base value.

Then list the installed price of everthing in the panel as though you bought the airplane with the original antique radios and installed the new stuff yourself. That will provide a good replacement cost number to keep in mind as you negotiate the deal, as well as a SWAG for adding FMV of the stack that's currently installed (say 50% of original price). If you get hung up on the valuations rendered by the various "books" you will go crazy trying to come up with a number that you will later find doesn't mean anything anyway.

If the stuff I want is already installed, I will work harder to make a deal even if the price is a skosh--or even two skoshes--igher, simply because the downtime and hassle (it always takes twice as long as they say and they usually forget to tell you about at least one $5k interface box you need) to get the job done, and ten another two weeks to get all the boxes talking to each other.



l
azure said:
Thanks, this seems like a good way to proceed. :yesnod: I agree that Cardinals tend to hold their value well, it's another of the factors that biases me in their favour.

I'm trying to carefully valuate the avionics in this plane but AOPA's Vref tool doesn't know anything about the GNS 480, GMX 200, STEC 30, SN-3308, or ADS-B equipment (this plane has a GDL 90, a UAT transceiver). It also valuates ANY wx datalink at $3800 which is actually more than the retail price (uninstalled of course) for this one's unit, a GDL 69. Does anyone know a good avionics valuation resource?
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dmccormack said:
1200 SMOH...

hmmmmmmm......
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I think TBO on the '60 is 1600 hours...but I may be wrong. That said, you could put a new engine in it and still come in under $100k. And you'd still be flying a Bo.
 
vref on AOPA is worthless. Try the one on Trade-plane -- you can customize the avionics stack pretty easily.

Also, leaf through TAP and other websites to get a feel for comps. $100k is too much, nice avionics or not. the 480 is no longer supported by Garmin, nice unit though it may be.

I like Cardinal RGs. Very comfortable. I like high wings too - good for sightseeing.

Have you thought about getting the partners BEFORE you get the airplane? Assemble an acquisition war chest and cut your expenses before you burn any 100LL?
 
FlyNE said:
I think TBO on the '60 is 1600 hours...but I may be wrong. That said, you could put a new engine in it and still come in under $100k. And you'd still be flying a Bo.
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I used to work for a charter company the this was there standard operating procedure. They would purchase a Higher time aircraft like this. fly it for 400 hours to TBO. Put a new engine it and fly it another 400 hrs and sell it with a low time engine.

Or if they really liked the airplane the would sell after the 2nd engine. They ended up with a Commanche 250 with tip tanks this way as thier favorite charter airplane. Economical, reasonably fast with a ton of range, even though most charters were under 200 miles, this ment the could go round trip and fill up at from their own fuel truck.

Brian
 
flyersfan31 said:
Have you thought about getting the partners BEFORE you get the airplane? Assemble an acquisition war chest and cut your expenses before you burn any 100LL?
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Yes I've thought about it. But I've never seen an ad "wanted: partners to buy an airplane, cost $x to $y, speed a kts to b kts, panel something like this". And that's the only way I could see it working, outside of happening to meet some people who are looking for similar things in a plane, say in a club. Otherwise it could take forever to agree on what to buy. If I buy what I want and then try to sell shares, it might take a while too, but in the meantime, I'd have a plane.

Then again, just because I've never seen ads like that doesn't mean they don't exist. Has anyone else seen them? Know of any success stories doing it that way?
 
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I've never had partners in any aircraft, but have heard a lot of horror stories. It might be wise to see if some of your friends who currently rent would be interested in partnering with you. Alternately, be prepared to have to pay all expenses yourself in the airplane if it takes you a while to find good, compatible partners.
 
Professor!

The bo, I think, is a much better deal, and may permit you to NOT have to have a partner....
 
How do you figure, Bruce? It has a nearly run-out engine. $70k plus a new engine or even an overhaul equals >$90k and you never recoup installation costs.

The Bo's panel is nicer in some ways, it does have a 430W instead of the "oddball" 480. But the GPS is way over on the right side. Bad panel layout IMO for single pilot ops. And no ADS-B.

Ted, I don't know anyone who rents. I'm in a club that owns three high time, very high mx planes. But very few members are instrument rated and/or would be interested in the kind of airplane I'm looking for. It's mostly VFR guys who go around the pattern on the weekends. (They are seriously considering selling one of the 172s and replacing it with a LSA.) One of the IR pilots is already buying a Cirrus.

I'm prepared to go it alone for up to 2 years, but by then if I haven't found at least one partner, I will probably have to sell. A deal like the Bo could only let me go a little longer IF I don't need a new engine by then. Eventually, I'll need a partner regardless of what I buy.
 
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azure said:
I'm prepared to go it alone for up to 2 years, but by then if I haven't found at least one partner, I will probably have to sell. A deal like the Bo could only let me go a little longer IF I don't need a new engine by then. Eventually, I'll need a partner regardless of what I buy.
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What's plan "C"??

It sounds like plan "A" is to buy and find a partner and plan "B" is to sell at "hopefully not much loss" if no partner is found within 2 years give or take a few months. What if you haven't found a partner in 2 years, the market tanks further for old singles, the best offer you get is 50% of your original acquisition cost, you're cash reserves have been depleted by mx and other fixed costs, and the remaining balance on your note is far greater than the low ball offers you're receiving?
 
I think your general idea makes sense, but if one of the IR pilots in the club is buying a Cirrus, would he be interested in partners? Or alternately, would he be interested in partnering for something cheaper? Just a thought, you never know.

The more I look at this, the more I think you're really better off trying to find something in the $50-60k range on purchase like Ed's deal. The idea would be something that fits the needs but gives you a good sum of buffer room. You may even find yourself being able to afford to keep the plane without a partner if you have to. Either way, money is equivalent to money, so if you spend less you have more. This could turn into more time to find a partner.

One other thing to consider is non-equity partners/renters. That was the situation I had with the Mooney I flew. It worked out great for both me and the owner. None of the hassles of arguing with partners over what to do (I had no say in what went on with the plane unless they asked my opinion), still good availability of the plane for both of us (I think we only had one time when we both wanted to use it at the same time), etc.
 
And if you have to sell it in 2 years, I'd much rather take a 50% loss on 50k, than a 50% loss on 90k.
 
Wow, lots of different ideas to think about here! Thank you to all who've responded.

Pilot117, Plan C is to lower the asking price until it sells. Isn't that what everyone does they can't get anything close to what they're asking? Yes it means I will take a loss. And a 50% loss on $50k is better than a 50% loss on $90k. Neither will kill me financially, but $45k will hurt more. But I've yet to see something I like that is really a $50k plane and not a $90k plane that needs work or a new engine. A real honest $50k plane is an older model 100kt straight leg -- hard to find for sale with a nice panel. If I want the panel I need to add it, and then I end up paying $90k or more. Anyway I would like to buy something better.

If I do this, non-equity partners may actually end up being the way I'll go, as it isn't the money tied up in the plane that hurts so much as the cost of mx and hangar. The money tied up in the plane to me represents risk. Being able to fly at half the cost of sole owner with no investment is pretty attractive. I've been in that kind of arrangement too, Ted! So yes, that's a really possibility too.

My understanding is the Cirrus buyer has already signed the deal. There might be one or two other interested pilots there, but it's hard to approach them except at club meetings. I've had to miss the last two because of my work schedule.
 
Every co-ownership deal starts one of two ways. It's either an airplane looking for owners, or prospective owners looking for an airplane. Both are possible and neither are predictably easy. Of the two, a shiny airplane with good curb appeal is probably the more likely way to find co-owners, assuming you can go it alone until the fish are biting.

That's not all bad either, since having it all to yourself for the first while allows you to fly the crap out of it until the "new" is wore off, and also allows you to see first-hand how efficient they are (not at providing travel, but at disposing of money) and helps pre-condition you to the true value of having someone else to help pay the freight.

Good luck.
azure said:
Yes I've thought about it. But I've never seen an ad "wanted: partners to buy an airplane, cost $x to $y, speed a kts to b kts, panel something like this". And that's the only way I could see it working, outside of happening to meet some people who are looking for similar things in a plane, say in a club. Otherwise it could take forever to agree on what to buy. If I buy what I want and then try to sell shares, it might take a while too, but in the meantime, I'd have a plane.

Then again, just because I've never seen ads like that doesn't mean they don't exist. Has anyone else seen them? Know of any success stories doing it that way?
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$100K does sound rather stiff for a 177. In this market you can pick up a whole lot more airplane for that kind of money. I like the Bo, though I'd try and get a line on engine replacement/overhaul before I bought it. At least you know what you're getting into. What I like about that deal is I think you recoup more from a fresh engine than new radios. I bet there are plenty of aircraft with serviceable stacks that are available for lots less. That said, if you are that solid on the goodies you might wind up paying a premium price. If i put all that in my airplane I would want to get some of it back out.
 
azure said:
Wow, lots of different ideas to think about here! Thank you to all who've responded.

Pilot117, Plan C is to lower the asking price until it sells. Isn't that what everyone does they can't get anything close to what they're asking? Yes it means I will take a loss. And a 50% loss on $50k is better than a 50% loss on $90k. Neither will kill me financially, but $45k will hurt more. But I've yet to see something I like that is really a $50k plane and not a $90k plane that needs work or a new engine. A real honest $50k plane is an older model 100kt straight leg -- hard to find for sale with a nice panel. If I want the panel I need to add it, and then I end up paying $90k or more. Anyway I would like to buy something better.

If I do this, non-equity partners may actually end up being the way I'll go, as it isn't the money tied up in the plane that hurts so much as the cost of mx and hangar. The money tied up in the plane to me represents risk. Being able to fly at half the cost of sole owner with no investment is pretty attractive. I've been in that kind of arrangement too, Ted! So yes, that's a really possibility too.

My understanding is the Cirrus buyer has already signed the deal. There might be one or two other interested pilots there, but it's hard to approach them except at club meetings. I've had to miss the last two because of my work schedule.
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You want to see one tomorrow after work? "You think you hate it now, wait till you fly it." :D
 
Liz, I really think you should look at Ed's Comanche just to see what you can get for $45k.
 
I purchased the Cessna 150 I learned to fly in. I still have it and have over 400 hours in good ole 175. Been to Oshkosh with it 3 times and going back this year as well. I have $8000 in my half.
 
EdFred said:
You want to see one tomorrow after work? "You think you hate it now, wait till you fly it." :D
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:skeptical:
... but I'm open to being convinced! Can't get over there tomorrow though, no club planes available. :(
 
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