Back Taxi

BigAL

BigAL

Pre-takeoff checklist
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BigAL
At our small airport we have to back taxi rwy 35. The other day I was holding while another student w/CFI was doing t&g's. Before back taxi I waited for them to just about turn L DW to 35. I had to "rush" my taxi, was not a brisk walk:eek:, so as not to be in the way. I wasn't going that fast, but I felt rushed.

My question, when do you enter the runway for a back taxi or even to take-off? Do you wait for them to get to pattern height and assume all will be "ok" and won't need to make an emergency landing? My CFI is out of town or I would have called him and I missed the other CFI, so I thought I'd ask you all.

My "worry" is that I'd be on the rwy when an emergency landing was needed and I'd be in the way. Better question might be, how long does the departing airplane "have" active/rwy?

Thanks for the help.
 
I have a short back taxi when departing on runway 27 at my airport. I'll start the back taxi as soon as the aircraft is passed me.

If they have an emergency they would not be in a position to use the runway at that point plus I have a turn off just ahead that I could rush to if someone else needed the runway. Waiting until they reach pattern altitude is, IMHO, waiting far too long.
 
If the incoming plane is on downwind, he's about 2 1/2 to 3 miles away. You should have a good 2 minutes to get the job done. Downwind I wouldn't worry too much about. They could always extend. When they're on base, I'd just as soon wait for them since you never know if they're going to square it off or bring it straight to the runway.
 
I'm with Scott. They can't possibly need the runway right after they take off but they could need it in an emergency if they're at pattern altitude. So, back taxi right after they pass you. More expedient for you, better for them.

BigAL said:
Better question might be, how long does the departing airplane "have" active/rwy?
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I don't think an aircraft ever owns the airspace behind them.
 
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Thanks for the replies. I just looked at google maps and I have to back taxi a little over 4000' to the runup/turn-around, it's a 5000' rwy.

Worst case, I could just turn in the grass/ditch slowly w/out any damage and leave room for the emergency landing plane.

If ya wanna look it's ktqk. Old pic but you'll see what I'm talk'n about.

Thanks
 
When I was getting my tailwheel endorsement we would land on the grass and back taxi on the pavement to take off from pavement.

One thing you learn early on is that taxiing a taildragger fast is a recipe for disaster (unless you have lots of time and experience)

So as soon as the next airplane shot past our wing, we'd commence the back taxi -- after all, they have no possible use for the pavement behind them.
 
silver-eagle said:
If the incoming plane is on downwind, he's about 2 1/2 to 3 miles away. You should have a good 2 minutes to get the job done. Downwind I wouldn't worry too much about. They could always extend. When they're on base, I'd just as soon wait for them since you never know if they're going to square it off or bring it straight to the runway.
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Not if I am flying the plane. 3700' runway, on a day like today, I am close to or at TPA at the end of the runway, and I fly tight patterns. never more than 1/3 mile from the numbers.
 
smigaldi said:
I have a short back taxi when departing on runway 27 at my airport. I'll start the back taxi as soon as the aircraft is passed me.

If they have an emergency they would not be in a position to use the runway at that point plus I have a turn off just ahead that I could rush to if someone else needed the runway. Waiting until they reach pattern altitude is, IMHO, waiting far too long.
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i agree with Scott here. Especially since you have a very long back taxi of 4000' the only caveat I'd make is if there is other traffic in the patter you need to take that into consideration especially given the distance. Remember unless there is a terrain or airspace issue planes on down wind can always extend the down wind, just announce your intentions clearly.
 
The real question is if there is a pull off runup area at the end. If there is not, the answer changes radically.
 
EdFred said:
Not if I am flying the plane. 3700' runway, on a day like today, I am close to or at TPA at the end of the runway, and I fly tight patterns. never more than 1/3 mile from the numbers.
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Ed, I think he meant the distance the plane will have to travel that through the whole pattern before reaching the runway again, Not actual distance away.

Al, It is very good that you are thinking in this manner. I do not, nor ever had to back taxi but I would never have thought the "What if they have an emergency" in any case. So that is a very courteous and thoughtful way to think.
 
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bbchien said:
The real question is if there is a pull off runup area at the end. If there is not, the answer changes radically.
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I am not so sure it does. For example if there is no run up area at the end one should have down their run up prior to starting the back taxi. Then all that is happening is a back taxi, a 180 degree turn and departure. If there is a run up area then of course one can pull off to do the run up. But in either case the aircraft that has just departed is not likely ever going to need the runway they just departed. Waiting until that aircraft reaches pattern altitude is likely to increase the chance of interference on the runway.

With more than just that plane in the pattern there is of course more to take into account when starting the back taxi.
 
Were your pretakeoff checks completed before your back-taxi?

BigAL said:
At our small airport we have to back taxi rwy 35. The other day I was holding while another student w/CFI was doing t&g's. Before back taxi I waited for them to just about turn L DW to 35. I had to "rush" my taxi, was not a brisk walk:eek:, so as not to be in the way. I wasn't going that fast, but I felt rushed.

My question, when do you enter the runway for a back taxi or even to take-off? Do you wait for them to get to pattern height and assume all will be "ok" and won't need to make an emergency landing? My CFI is out of town or I would have called him and I missed the other CFI, so I thought I'd ask you all.

My "worry" is that I'd be on the rwy when an emergency landing was needed and I'd be in the way. Better question might be, how long does the departing airplane "have" active/rwy?

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...
 
bbchien said:
The real question is if there is a pull off runup area at the end. If there is not, the answer changes radically.
Click to expand...

http://www.runwayfinder.com/?x=-100.88468849658966&y=38.46787469450255&z=18&view=sat



Even has taxi markings looping off/on and the "hold short" line. :rofl:


dmccormack said:
One thing you learn early on is that taxiing a taildragger fast is a recipe for disaster (unless you have lots of time and experience)
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Give it the juice and pick up the tail. :smile:

Oh, and I would have pulled out as soon as they went past. I assume that if one was doing pattern work, one would be prepared to extend just a bit for back taxiing traffic...
 
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dmccormack said:
Ill do that to turn quickly but fast taxiing on pavement downwind seems to be a lot of risk without a lot of gain. :frown3:

(At my experience level, at least)
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Assuming light winds, back taxiing fast should offer no more risk that landing. If you're just learning to land a taildragger, fast taxi on the runway is a good way to develop tailwheel skills and doing it with the tail raised offers a good view down the runway.

Of course taxiing fast on a taxiway with things to hit nearby might well be risky and should generally be avoided.
 
gismo said:
Assuming light winds, back taxiing fast should offer no more risk that landing. If you're just learning to land a taildragger, fast taxi on the runway is a good way to develop tailwheel skills and doing it with the tail raised offers a good view down the runway.

Of course taxiing fast on a taxiway with things to hit nearby might well be risky and should generally be avoided.
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I'm with Harvey Plourde on this -- I don't see the utility of high speed taxi other than as a training technique, and quite frankly I have takeoffs down cold in the Chief (I know, I know -- "Pride before the fall...")

:dunno:
 
dmccormack said:
I'm with Harvey Plourde on this -- I don't see the utility of high speed taxi other than as a training technique
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I wouldn't suggest it as an every day thing. Or in windy conditions.

But, it's not that hard. Handy if you end up at the wrong end of a big runway and are looking at a 2 mile taxi (BTDT:dunno:)
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Ed, I think he meant the distance the plane will have to travel that through the whole pattern before reaching the runway again, Not actual distance away.

Al, It is very good that you are thinking in this manner. I do not, nor ever had to back taxi but I would never have thought the "What if they have an emergency" in any case. So that is a very courteous and thoughtful way to think.
Click to expand...

So was I. I don't travel 2.5 miles for my patterns. Not even two.
 
BigAL said:
My "worry" is that I'd be on the rwy when an emergency landing was needed and I'd be in the way. Better question might be, how long does the departing airplane "have" active/rwy?

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

In the planes I've flown, at the fields I've flown at, its extremely rare not to have a safe unpaved shoulder to pull off onto if you have to vacate the runway RIGHT THE HELL NOW. Done it before.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I wouldn't suggest it as an every day thing. Or in windy conditions.

But, it's not that hard. Handy if you end up at the wrong end of a big runway and are looking at a 2 mile taxi (BTDT:dunno:)
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True....

I haven't been in that situation. I'd have no problem getting the tail up and scooting along if I absolutely had to, I suppose.
 
EdFred said:
Not if I am flying the plane. 3700' runway, on a day like today, I am close to or at TPA at the end of the runway, and I fly tight patterns. never more than 1/3 mile from the numbers.
Click to expand...

Yes.. but most pilots doing "tight patterns" would make room for some one to back taxi and get in the air.
 
timwinters said:
<snip>

I don't think an aircraft ever owns the airspace behind them.
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I think thats true, however the one place to be careful with it if you are departing behind a glider in tow. We practice and are ready for a rope or towplane failure. We usually only need 200 feet to make a 180 to the runway. Back Taxing we could probably space in either ahead of or behind you. But if you take off right behind us you could end up with a glider coming right back at you.

Brian
 
bigred177 said:
Just drive it down on the grass :D
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You were probably kidding. but sometimes that's the answer. There's a short (1900ft) field in cent PA (Reigle) where I know people will pull off into the grass if there's a plane on final. BTDT.
 
dmccormack said:
I'm with Harvey Plourde on this -- I don't see the utility of high speed taxi other than as a training technique, and quite frankly I have takeoffs down cold in the Chief (I know, I know -- "Pride before the fall...")

:dunno:
Click to expand...

Good for you, Dan!

I have over 1000 hours in my Luscombe now, and I still avoid the fast taxi when possible. It's really not about time in type, it's about knowledge in type. Some airplanes just don't like it, and mine is one of them.

Henry's 8A trots down the runway just fine. It's a Luscombe like mine, but it's different. It has a different gear, a different engine and a different C.G.

Mine feels like it's on its tip-toes on marbles in a fast taxi.

I learned to handle a Luscombe using the fast taxi, but that was into the wind. A fast back taxi in mine is not a good thing!

Deb
 
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