Coast to coast in a mooney 201 with no sup oxygen

ecrane99

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Ed
Coast to coast in a mooney 201

Hi fellow pilots,
I'm planning an IFR flight from CT - Houston, then to Las Vegas.
My main concern is in the Albuquerque area with many MEAs being above the part 91 limits without oxygen.

I have 1200 hrs flight time, but only on the east coast. I am very excited to finally get out west but would like any suggestion you may have.
My questions are:

1) I plan to file the IFR flight plan using routes that are legal MEA of course. CXO ZMSKL V306 CWK V76 SJT V68 CNX V264 INW V291 PGS V562 LAS VGT
If my plan gets amended in the air, what is the proper way to let the controller know I need to stay below 12,500?

2) I have have experience with ice and weather and I know when to cancel a trip. Any unique precations to take related to flying out west vs East?

3) Any suggestions on a destination airport in vegas? I have VGT as my choice at this point.

4) I have thoughts of returning home via the rockies, but I havenot explored those routes yet and not sure it is even possible with a mooney.

Thanks for any help and guidance for my adventure scheduled Feb 2010.
 
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Can you borrow or rent an O2 tank? It's well worth it. Alternatively, look for routes with lower MEAs. The weather is generally clear enough that VFR will work out in that part of the world.

I've done the route from San Antonio to Vegas, Phoenix, and Palm Springs a few times. I think you'll be happier the higher up you can get, but with a few exceptions you should be able to do it lower down. The times I did it, I flew high and sucked gas (with oximizer canulas) for the trip.
 
If you can, I'd suggest seeing if you can borrow an O2 setup from a friend or something like that. Better still if that friend has a pulse oximeter that you can borrow with it. Your MEAs look to all be at or below 12k so you'll be legal, but one thing on a trip like that is that coming home you may be able to take advantage of some good tailwinds going up high. Believe me when I say that you really wish you had that O2 setup when you're stuck lower with crappier winds!

I've been requested to fly at 14,000 twice (once was at 12,000 near DC, which apparently is an altitude they normally use for arriving jets and turboprops) but didn't have any O2. Even though I could have done it for up to 30 minutes legally, it wasn't something I felt comfortable doing. I just used the magic word "unable" and apologized that I couldn't do that for him. It shouldn't be an issue for you since your MEAs never exceed 12,000.

Sounds like a great trip! Have fun! I'm hoping to head that way before too long myself!
 
Hi fellow pilots,
I'm planning an IFR flight from CT - Houston, then to Las Vegas.
My main concern is in the Albuquerque area with many MEAs being above the part 91 limits without oxygen.

I have 1200 hrs flight time, but only on the east coast. I am very excited to finally get out west but would like any suggestion you may have.
My questions are:

1) I plan to file the IFR flight plan using routes that are legal MEA of course. CXO ZMSKL V306 CWK V76 SJT V68 CNX V264 INW V291 PGS V562 LAS VGT
If my plan gets amended in the air, what is the proper way to let the controller know I need to stay below 12,500?

2) I have have experience with ice and weather and I know when to cancel a trip. Any unique precations to take related to flying out west vs East?

3) Any suggestions on a destination airport in vegas? I have VGT as my choice at this point.

4) I have thoughts of returning home via the rockies, but I havenot explored those routes yet and not sure it is even possible with a mooney.

Thanks for any help and guidance for my adventure scheduled Feb 2010.

I've flown to Phoenix through that corridor over ABQ (deparure point was Pittsburgh). I think we had 13k MEA for a while, IIRC?

We used supplemental O2 from cannula using plain old medical O2.

It works as long as you keep the O2 from freezing (which is a problem for installed systems).
 
Hi fellow pilots,
I'm planning an IFR flight from CT - Houston, then to Las Vegas.
My main concern is in the Albuquerque area with many MEAs being above the part 91 limits without oxygen.
There's ways to stay below 12,500 IFR. IIRC, the highest you have to go is around 10,000. That might involve a few minor deviations.

I have 1200 hrs flight time, but only on the east coast. I am very excited to finally get out west but would like any suggestion you may have.
My questions are:

1) I plan to file the IFR flight plan using routes that are legal MEA of course. CXO ZMSKL V306 CWK V76 SJT V68 CNX V264 INW V291 PGS V562 LAS VGT
If my plan gets amended in the air, what is the proper way to let the controller know I need to stay below 12,500?
There's no standard phraseology for that. As always, in that case you just tell him that you need to stay below 12,500 because of O2 requirements. I would say that flying at 12,000 for extended periods of time isn't a great idea, especially if you don't know how you'll react to the altitude and if you don't have a pulseox.

2) I have have experience with ice and weather and I know when to cancel a trip. Any unique precations to take related to flying out west vs East?
Personally, I think the West is a bit easier because it's usually not hazy and icing is less of a concern in that it won't always go down to the surface.

3) Any suggestions on a destination airport in vegas? I have VGT as my choice at this point.
VGT is good because it's cheap. It's rather inconvenient to get from VGT to the strip. LAS is a lot more convenient, but the parking fees are higher. I usually go to LAS.

4) I have thoughts of returning home via the rockies, but I havenot explored those routes yet and not sure it is even possible with a mooney.
It's possible if you get a good weather day, but the trouble is that the West can be unforgiving in the winter (it usually is). There isn't much flat terrain here, so you'll find that you'll fly at 7,000'+ IFR and if there are any clouds, that will most likely mean moderate icing by default.

-Felix
 
Hi fellow pilots,
I'm planning an IFR flight from CT - Houston, then to Las Vegas.
My main concern is in the Albuquerque area with many MEAs being above the part 91 limits without oxygen........

Thanks for any help and guidance for my adventure scheduled Feb 2010.

You should be able to get to Vegas from Houston without being above 10000'. You just have to take a southerly route towards Phonenix then proceed north.
 
1) I plan to file the IFR flight plan using routes that are legal MEA of course. CXO ZMSKL V306 CWK V76 SJT V68 CNX V264 INW V291 PGS V562 LAS VGT
If my plan gets amended in the air, what is the proper way to let the controller know I need to stay below 12,500?

I don't know "proper", but I'd just tell them that I need a lower altitude since I have no oxygen on board.

Can I question your premise? Why not just buy (or borrow, or rent) a portable oxygen system? If you spend any time at 12k you will be awfully tired by the end of the day flying, and oxygen systems are not that expensive compared to the cost of flying a GA plane coast-to-coast. (Heck, you could buy a system before your trip and ebay it when you are done if you want to make it cheaper.)

2) I have have experience with ice and weather and I know when to cancel a trip. Any unique precations to take related to flying out west vs East?

Mountains. If it is windy, you can experience mountain wave. You can get some amazingly strong turbulence. Density altitude matters a lot more. Also, weather can change more quickly in the mountains than on flat land. If you have no mountain flying experience and want to fly through them, I'd highly recommend taking a one-day "mountain checkout" course from a local instructor before choosing to fly through them (or over them at low altitude), it is eye-opening.

Chris
 
Hi fellow pilots,
I'm planning an IFR flight from CT - Houston, then to Las Vegas.
My main concern is in the Albuquerque area with many MEAs being above the part 91 limits without oxygen.

Do you have to go IFR for some reason? The best part of flying out west is seeing the beautiful scenery!

1) I plan to file the IFR flight plan using routes that are legal MEA of course. CXO ZMSKL V306 CWK V76 SJT V68 CNX V264 INW V291 PGS V562 LAS VGT

It looks like you only have the ONM-SJN leg that's at 12,000. I would suggest you file for 12,000 and put "Request 8,000 (or 10) until otherwise required by MEA." Or if the system lets you file for 8 and put the opposite remark in, even better. When I've crossed Lake Michigan IFR, I've filed for 9,000 and put "13,000 at MTW" in the remarks.

If my plan gets amended in the air, what is the proper way to let the controller know I need to stay below 12,500?

"Unable." If you want to embellish, "Unable, No oxygen."

2) I have have experience with ice and weather and I know when to cancel a trip. Any unique precations to take related to flying out west vs East?

The airports are farther apart and the terrain is much less forgiving. Take lots of extra fuel, don't push anything weather-wise, and enjoy yourself. :yes:

3) Any suggestions on a destination airport in vegas? I have VGT as my choice at this point.

Not enough experience with the others to make a good recommendation, but I was very happy with both the service and the prices at Boulder City. It's a bit farther out of town, but that gets you... Uh, better service and prices. ;)

4) I have thoughts of returning home via the rockies, but I havenot explored those routes yet and not sure it is even possible with a mooney.

I returned from CA to WI last year via the highest part of the Rockies in a 182, and never needed to climb above 13,500. (Loveland Pass is at 12,990 feet, so I went through it at 13,500.)

However, I highly recommend you find a good mountain flying course to take before attempting such things. I went to http://www.mountaincanyounflying.com/ which was a spectacular experience, but it's a bit out of your way. ;)

Thanks for any help and guidance for my adventure scheduled Feb 2010.

Take lots of pictures, and post them here! :yes:
 
It seems I am constantly advertising for Henderson (KHND). On almost a daily basis I get asked some variation of this question and I alway tell people to fly into HND.

Getting in to HND is easier than getting into North Vegas and way easier than getting into KLAS. Much better FBO service and rates.....

Parking is just north of the self-serve ($4.34 today) on the west side of the runways. Ground control will help you get there, if you need it. The FBO is run by the county/airport and the staff is fantastic. $5 per night for parking and $4.64 today for full-serve fuel. “Follow-me” van will usually pull up and help you tie-down and drive you to the terminal. Otherwise it’s a 3 minute walk. Good restaurant upstairs too.

The FBO does have a free shuttle, but it now only runs twice a day and makes multiple stops. Not ideal for me, but it might work for you. I would call ahead and get the operating times. I always rent a car as it’s $50 cab ride, one way. Cheaper and way more convenient to have a car, especially if you are going to be need transportation during your stay.

Hertz or Enterprise Rental cars in the GA terminal at pretty reasonable prices. I use Hertz. Call him ahead of time to reserve at 702-263-8894. He will ask for your tail # and eta. He will be at the counter with your car pulled up just outside the terminal. He used to drive the car ramp side, but airport regs stopped that cold a little while ago. Check the Hertz website for a cheap rate, if you have your trip planned a month in advance. Otherwise the rates are pretty much the same whether you call or use the internet.

All around a significantly better experience for me in using Henderson....
 
I've flown to Vegas from Atlanta in my M20J. I used KHND for the reasons given by Vince45 above. He is right. I personally would not do this trip without O2. You are just giving up too much flexibility not having it. Heck, if you're not going to be gone too long and for some reason you are going via the Altanta area, I'll loan you my system.

It's a great trip for a Mooney; have fun and tell us all about it after.
 
The PulseOx is a good idea.

You'll probably find that you'll be pushing it at 12,000 (legal but not necessarily "safe").

Ted's comments on the winds is right on. Lower down you will not only fight a headwind going out but you may end up (as I did one trip) with pretty hefty waves. They're worse down low.
 
Whats the reason for IFR? Most likely if it is IFR you're going to have serious icing concerns.

If I were to do it - I'd want good VFR. Plenty of ways to go through VFR without oxygen concerns.
 
Whats the reason for IFR? Most likely if it is IFR you're going to have serious icing concerns.

If I were to do it - I'd want good VFR. Plenty of ways to go through VFR without oxygen concerns.

Last time I flew through any mountians the local advice was to stick to the roads - not take the direct routes. That way you stood a chance of being found if push came to shove.

How not to do it:

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]-----Original Message-----[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]From: skyranger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:skyranger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dion[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]Sent: 02 February 2006 15:19[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]To: skyranger@yahoogroups.com[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]Subject: [skyranger] Trinidad Icing encounter (long)[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]Here something to reed over the weekend, I know very few of us fly over 10.000 feet. and thru the clouds special with out oxygen in addition he also climbed very quickly to 13,500 feet in my humble opinion this is a No,No. [/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]Isn't? [/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]Dion Mermegas[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]http://www.frappr.com/skyranger[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]At 11:20 AM, on a gray and overcast January morning, I took off from San Carlos airport, south of San Francisco, in a Socata TB-20 Trinidad, tail number N21AR. My destination was Boulder Municipal airport in Colorado. I had estimated about 5 to 6 hours for the flight. The night before and the morning of the flight, I logged onto DUATS for a weather briefing, and checked the aviation maps on weather.com, and both times the information seemed to indicate a tricky, but not unduly hazardous flight. There were no thunderstorms or significant meteorological impediments along the route, but several layers of clouds, combined with cold temperatures, graced most of the Sierra range and extended into central Nevada, along with another similar situation affecting the Colorado Rockies.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]My route was going to be direct all the way, relying on the handheld GPS to guide me nonstop to Boulder. The Trinidad has a range of about 1000 nautical miles under no-wind conditions; the distance to Boulder was 895 miles and with a strong tailwind. After takeoff, I was pleased to see that the GPS had me arriving into Boulder in less than 4 and a half hours. I guided the Trin on course, heading straight toward the heart of the Sierra mountains. I had overflown the Sierras on numerous occasions, and with a ceiling of over 16,000 feet, I knew the Trin could overfly even the highest peaks by several hundred feet. My course was then going to take me across the full breadth of Nevada, passing by Salt Lake City, and on into the northern Rockies.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]I climbed quickly to 13,500 feet, my chosen cruising altitude, as per VFR guidelines. As I approached the foothills of the mountains, the cloud layers seemed easily defined, with bands of darker color separating those of the white cirrus layers. I continued on, being able to maintain separation from the clouds and thinking I could see a clear layer between cloud layers to navigate through. I passed the last airports and towns west of the Sierra and knew that I was soon going to be committing myself to crossing the mountains. I made frequent checks of the GPS map to keep myself oriented as well as to define my escape route back to clear weather in case I had to turn around.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]With a 40 mph tailwind, I was well over normal cruise speeds, moving at a speed of over 200 mph over the ground. Within a few minutes, the layers of clouds seemed to suddenly merge and lose definition. I looked up and could still see patches of blue sky straight above me, but I had suddenly lost visual contact with anything around or below me. I made a turn back to the northwest and toward clear skies, in no way wanting to find myself in a cold milky soup of clouds only a few thousand feet above dangerous and remote terrain.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]I reached clear skies quickly and glanced back to the east to see if there was another obvious and clear way over the mountains. I was able to pick out definition in the distance on a course a bit further north than my original one, and so I turned the plane back to the northeast and pressed on. Yet once again, the definition of just moments ago melted into a white blur as the cloud layers defied my visual sense and I was once again in the soup.[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]And again, I could see the sun filtering through the clouds above me, so I tried climbing to try and quickly get above the cloud layer. I pushed the throttle and prop control to the stops and pulled back on the yoke. I reached an altitude of 15,000 feet and I was still engulfed in clouds; in fact, now I was in deeper than before, and with the tailwind barreling me along at tremenous speed, I was suddenly two-thirds of the way across the range, yet utterly blind to the outside world. It was at that moment that I glanced down to the wing’s edge just outside my window and saw, to my horror, a half-inch layer of ice solidly attached to the entire leading edge of the wing.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]I’ve been flying for about 15 years now, and although I learned to fly in Florida where the only ice a pilot encounters is in his cocktail, I had the fears of ice accretion hammered into me by my instructors. In the intervening years, having accumulated about 700 hours flying a Piper Arrow and now a Trinidad, throughout the United States and in all manner of conditions, I had never before experienced icing while flying. I had read all the horror stories of pilots encountering ice while flying and barely walking away with their lives, or meeting a fate worse than that, and had totally absorbed the terrors that ice can wreak on planes and on the pilots who command them. So while I had not anticipated ever flying into conditions ripe for ice accretion - having not had any contact with the experience before - I recognized immediately the real and life-threatening dangers it posed when I made that glance down to the wing. Being over mountainous terrain in the middle of winter did not provide me with any additional comfort.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]The vision of that much ice already having formed on the wings shocked me. I became irrational for a moment. I made the immediate decision to turn around and go back precisely the way I came, but in my unthinking haste, and not taking into consideration the aerodynamic deterioration occurring at that very moment, I banked hard to the left, bringing the plane into an almost 60 degree bank. Halfway through the turn I glanced up at the airspeed indicator, my heart already pounding, and saw that the needle was at 60 knots and winding down. Somehow, against all classroom predictions of such a scenario, I managed to level the plane out and was able to gingerly bring the airspeed back up. I may have even stalled, but as I think back to that moment now, with ice accumulating at a terrifying rate on all leading surfaces of the plane, in the middle of a 60 degree bank at 60 knots at 15,000 feet, I realize that those numbers should have been the recipe for my destruction. I will never know why I was able to pull out of that predicament, and I still lie awake at night imagining the plane spiraling down through the clouds and impacting the rugged peaks of the Sierra.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]But the epic was far from over. I got the plane back on course, retracing my path exactly with the help of the GPS. But now I was flying into a 40 mph headwind, and my groundspeed waned first to 80 knots, then 75, then 70, then finally 68. I watched with a kind of helpless terror that brought me close to tears as the ice continued to accumulate on the wings, first an inch, then an inch and a half, then two, and still accumulating. Very soon after my turn back to the west, I realized that I was not able to maintain altitude. I let my airspeed dwindle down to about 95 knots and knew I could not let the plane fly slower than that. And against every straining will, wishing the plane to remain aloft, I was forced to put the nose down, losing about 500 feet a minute in order to maintain a safe airspeed.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]At this point I called Flightwatch, whose frequency was ironically dialed into the radio, and told them I was experiencing severe icing and needed a frequency for radar control. The controller gave me Oakland Center’s frequency and I called them up, trying to conceal the borderline panic in my voice.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Courier New, monospace]Oakland Center, Trinidad 21 Alpha Romeo, I’m experiencing severe icing conditions, I have about two and a half inches of ice on my wings, I am not able to maintain altitude, and need to get on the ground as soon as possible.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]The nearest airport to me at that time was Pine Mountain, a small airport tucked into the foothills of the Sierras, serving a smattering of houses that lined the runway. At the time that I called Oakland, I was still right over the center of the range, very near Yosemite, and laboring along at a speed slower than highway speed limits. I was still totally immersed in clouds, seeming to grow darker by the moment, still watching the ice accumulate, watching hundreds and hundreds of feet fall off the altimeter, gripped in total fear, entering into a state of ultra-sharp awareness that must come when one feels that death may be only moments away, heightened all the more by the vision of a violent and fiery end. I have never felt more helpless, in such little control over my fate.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]It was in this highly conscious, yet highly irrational state that I did something highly stupid. I opened the small window flap next to me, reached out my arm, and tried to scrape off the ice that I could reach with my bare hand. In the freezing air I clawed at the ice but it was fixed as if part of the wing itself, fused through some atomic network of chemical bonds. It was obviously futile. I pulled my arm back in and saw that I had ripped off the entire fingernail of my middle finger, the nail having pulled completely away from the skin beneath, shredding the skin all the way down to my first knuckle, and hanging on only by a few strands of bloody skin. Blood dripped down onto my pants. There was no pain at all, just a fascination with my own stupidity and envisioning the forensic experts puzzling over my bloody finger after pulling me from the wreckage that seemed more and more likely to come at any moment.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]With my chances of slipping through the noose becoming thinner, I called Oakland Center again and declared an emergency. I was now down to about 9,500 feet, still losing altitude rapidly, still in the clouds, still over mountainous terrain. My aim in declaring an emergency was not to gain any kind of assistance from the controller, knowing that he could provide very little for me at the time, but so that when the plane went down, the search and rescue team could be mobilized right away. I started to think through the final moments, thinking that I might pop out of the clouds with a few seconds to spare before impact, a few seconds that could provide me with enough time to maneuver the aircraft to minimize catastrophic damage. I made a mental note of the food I had in the plane with me, and how long I might be able to survive in the frigid mountain air with no heat or adequate clothing.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]My head danced between the GPS map, altimeter, airspeed indicator, and the wing. I prayed to a god I never knew existed. My heart pounded in my chest with ferocity. Blood dripped from my finger. I forced myself to breath slowly and focus. And then, as if a new slide had been placed into a projector, I popped out of the clouds and everything went from the grays of blindness to the whites and greens of a mountainous winter. I was about 600 feet above the terrain, now having given way to the gentler western foothills, and although I was still 8 miles or so from the runway, still far from certain deliverance, a tremendous relief washed over me. It was directly related to my sense of vision having been restored. Actually seeing whatever fate awaited me, no matter the nature of its outcome, was like the kiss of life. The thought of ramming into the side of the mountain in total visual obscurity is many times more haunting to me than being able to watch it happen.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]I still had to clear a few high ridges before I knew that I could make the runway. As I navigated toward it, huge chunks of ice started breaking off from the fuselage and slapping the windshield and other surfaces. The plane flew like it was in a vat of glue, the controls heavy and sluggish and unnatural. I thought that maybe the gear might be frozen and that I’d have to make a belly-up landing, but even that thought was more comforting than the fate I’d been imagining a few moments earlier. I saw the runway in the distance, cleared the last ridge by less than a hundred feet, and knew I was going to make it. Only later did I read that most icing-related accidents occur on approach. And only later did I learn to not drop the flaps in a situation such as this. I dropped the landing gear and got three in the green, and more relief poured over me. I dropped some flaps in and felt the aerodynamics behave in a way I’d never felt before, like someone was holding the wing-tips and fighting me with every control input I tried to feed the surfaces. I told the controller I was going to make it before losing contact as I approached field elevation. Despite the airplane behaving erratically and sluggishly, I managed to maneuver the plane down onto the runway and made a sloppy, shaky landing, and ran it out almost to the end before slowing enough to taxi off.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]The airport was deserted. I parked, shut down, opened the door, and sat there for a moment, shaking, savoring the overwhelming sense of relief soaking my body. I silently thanked the Trinidad for saving my life (for I think another lesser plane would not have fought so hard) and got out. I looked at the wings. Even though some of the ice had already melted off, there was about a three-inch thick slab of it hanging off the leading edges.[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]There was also ice on the bottom of the plane and on the elevator control surface. I walked to the small terminal lounge and found a payphone and called 911. By now, the pain in my finger was starting to kick in pretty hard, and being an EMT myself, knew that it needed to be properly cleaned and bandaged. Then I called my wife from my cell-phone and told her what had happened, my voice shaking as I relayed the story. “I don’t want you flying anymore,” she said through tears. “Get back to San Francisco and buy a ticket for a commercial flight, okay?” The EMT drove up right then and I told her I’d call her back later.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]The EMT bandaged me up as I again relayed the events of the last half-hour.[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]A pair of EMTs arrived in a fire truck to make sure everything was okay, and then all four of us went back out to the plane so they could see the ice buildup. They were pretty stunned by the amount of it, now half of it broken on the ground. I picked up a piece and pondered its innocent state now compared to its earlier responsibility for almost ending my life. The EMTs left and I was alone with my thoughts on a cold gray afternoon with my original destination still many miles away. I thought, reflected, and analyzed my options and decided to keep flying. By now I could knock away all the ice accumulation, leaving a completely healthy plane underneath. I took off uneventfully and navigated well to the south to avoid the weather stubbornly hanging over the Sierras. I finally got around it all and made the turn east, flew over Las Vegas, before finding myself in central Utah in fading light with ominous clouds and dark patches waiting to greet me along my intended path. Having cheated death once already that day, I made a detour and landed at Bryce Canyon airport and spent the night in the hotel.[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]It took me hours to fall asleep, images of terror and helplessness flashing in my mind, playing out the story if I had made any decisions differently, if I had indeed stalled out completely when making that turn back, or if I’d been in a different plane, or if I had kept on going, or if a million other scenarios. Finally, at 2:30 AM, fatigue overtook my taxed body and I fell asleep.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]The following morning was temperate with a layer of broken clouds scattered along the horizon. I refueled, took off, and spent the next two and a half hours navigating over the Rockies, weaving my way through a labyrinth of thick patches of cumulus clouds, before crossing the divide and dropping down onto the plains. A 35 knot wind coming down off the mountains made for a jerky landing, but shutting down the plane that afternoon, thus ending one of the most epic experiences of my life, caused me to cherish every element of the world around me, to savor every feeling and sensation, even the intense throbbing in my finger. My wife came to pick me up, giving me a long, tight hug before we drove home.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]Flying is in my blood, the practice and expression of a deep longing to soar above the earth, and while I hope to keep flying for as long as I’m able, I’ll always remember how small and helpless I felt in the face of raw nature. The laws of nature allow for an airplane to fly and perform as it has been designed, yet in the time it takes to preflight, those same laws can rob the same plane of its airborne privileges. The challenge of the pilot is to discern between the two, to respect both, and to allow his passions to occupy the space in between.[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]________________________________________[/FONT]

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]________________________________________[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]It's very difficult for me to say whether or not my not using supplemental[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]O2 had an effect on my ability to function, but I can say that in those few tense minutes, I have never ever felt as mentally sharp and as acutely aware of every sensory input. I don't recall any fuzziness or clouding in my mind.[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]I don't know how long it takes for the effects of high-altitude hypoxia to affect one's mental function, but from the time that I was cruising along at 13,500 (an altitude I frequently fly at with no ill-effects) to the time I was back under 10,000 feet was perhaps ten, twelve minutes. I was just thinking today that the time it took to go from a calm and rational state of mind to the terror of near-certain death was maybe eight or so minutes. The entire episode, from when I first found myself in IMC to landing at Pine Mountain was not more than twenty minutes. It all happened very quickly.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]Lori - yes, a part of me was rather flabbergasted at the notion of actually getting back into the plane and up again. But I reasoned it out. The plane was unharmed, the weather over the field and along my alternate route of flight was clear, and being miles from anywhere, I didn't really have much of a choice other than hitchhiking. Plus, I just wanted to get back up - I recognized that with a different perspective, I might avoid flying altogether for some time, but the incident was one dependent on isolated factors. To me, flying has long been second nature, like driving a car, something that every level of my cognitive and aesthetic abilities can grasp, an extension of these abilities that feels entirely natural and comfortable. That's probably what got me in trouble, but also what has allowed me to enjoy flying as much as I do. When I got my first plane, the Arrow, I was 20 years old and spent three months flying it all around the US, just me and my dog, sleeping in it, becoming very attached to it, and using it to explore every nook and cranny I came across. I guess that kind of comfort in flying can easily blur into complacency, a sense that I can just dip in and test the waters and if it doesn't feel right, I can just get out. But of course some situations up there don't provide that easy exit; some suck you in with even the most fleeting attempt to investigate. [/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]The experience will certainly alter the way I fly forever - this I am sure of. Millard, I did check icing forecasts, and icing was predicted for the mountainous regions of California, and if and when the letter comes from the FAA about this incident, I am prepared to admit fault for not taking heed. I guess I've gotten away with so much as a pilot, threading the needle as it were, that I wanted to go see for myself. It was a classic "direct-route syndrome," in that I wanted to just assess the situation myself before committing to adding several hours of flight time to circumvent the weather.[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]In some ways, however, I needed this experience very much, to be reminded of the power of both weather and rash decision-making, as well as the surprising bonus of now cherishing every beautiful breath, every sound, every kiss I share with my wife, and all the people that have comforted me in these last few days.[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]ryel[/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]PS For whomever it was that asked, by all means you may use the story as a published article.
[/FONT]
 
As to the above story, I am absolutely flabbergasted. I go between thinking "there but for the grace of God go I", to "How come Darwin didn't get him sooner?" I believe the answer is that the guy is already hypoxic at sea level.
 
I agree with Henning and the Cap'n...why go IFR? I made many delivery flights from Vero Beach to Seattle and insurance restrictions made daytime VFR mandatory. I remember one flight over Mullan Pass in Idaho that drove me above 12,500 for a brief period, but no instances taking the southern route.

Bob Gardner
 
1- O2 is your friend,, It gives alot of options and at the end of a long day you are in better shape for the next day, whether it be flying or playing.


2- VFR if possible,, airfile if needed.


3- Have fun.. The west is a whole different area and great to see from the air.

A little of topic but... after reading that story my first gut feeling is.. Why the heck didn't he keep going forward ? If he was really half way across the big rocks and 40+ tailwind he would have been able to drop into warmer air alot faster, clear the rocks alot faster and 15,000 without O2,:yikes:.. Heck, I have lived in Jackson Hole for 20+ years and fly all the time around 12,000 .. But I have built up resistance to Hypoxia. This guy was coming from sea level... :yesnod:.... If this story is true he is one LUCKY pilot.
 
Am I the only one who looked at his route? His MEAs are 12k or below the entire route, hence why he planned on filing that way. Only problem is if he doesn't get that, in which case he can always say "unable" to accept a clearance and negotiate an alternate. I agree VFR probably makes more sense, though, and he should borrow an O2 system (already stated).

Only you know how you'll do at 12k without O2 for extended periods. I've flown up there for 4.5 hours at a time repeatedly, no problem. I know I don't need O2 up there. At 14k? Don't know, haven't tried it. At 1200 hours with what seems like some serious XC time, I'd hope he's got enough time to know for himself how he reacts at different altitudes.
 
Thanks for the input everyone! Your advice will make this trip even better.

I am going to look into oxygen for this trip. I have some learning to do as I don't know the first thing about what to buy. I like Chris Idea of ebaying it when I finish the trip to recoop the expense.

I understand the recomendations for VFR. I feel more comforatble being under ATC control in case a TFR pops up and becuase I have never been in that region.

PS: The story of the pilot iced up over the mountains scares the sh^t out of me.
not to mention that awful incident his finger nail being ripped off during the indident.
That guy was very lucky.
 
I've flown to Vegas from Atlanta in my M20J. I used KHND for the reasons given by Vince45 above. He is right. I personally would not do this trip without O2. You are just giving up too much flexibility not having it. Heck, if you're not going to be gone too long and for some reason you are going via the Altanta area, I'll loan you my system.

It's a great trip for a Mooney; have fun and tell us all about it after.


Thanks Lance. I won't be through Atlanta, but can you recommend a system? I need to start looking for something simple that works for me and 1 pax.
 
I don't know "proper", but I'd just tell them that I need a lower altitude since I have no oxygen on board.

IME controllers will ask if you can accept an altitude higher than you filed before assigning one, especially if the new altitude is above 10,000 MSL. That said, I second (or is it third/fourth) the suggestion that you find a portable O2 system (and pulse OX) that you can borrow or rent. This not only opens up lots of potentially useful options, I think you'll find that extended periods above 8000-9000 MSL without O2 will produce excess fatigue, drowsiness, and somewhat impaired mental capacity. Even without having O2 along it would be a good idea to get a pulseOx (I think they can be had for $50-80 now) so you can monitor the effects of insufficient O2.
 
Thanks for the input everyone! Your advice will make this trip even better.

I am going to look into oxygen for this trip. I have some learning to do as I don't know the first thing about what to buy. I like Chris Idea of ebaying it when I finish the trip to recoop the expense.

I understand the recomendations for VFR. I feel more comforatble being under ATC control in case a TFR pops up and becuase I have never been in that region.

PS: The story of the pilot iced up over the mountains scares the sh^t out of me.
not to mention that awful incident his finger nail being ripped off during the indident.
That guy was very lucky.

If you ever get some mountain flying training out here one of the topics covered will be no IFR in IMC. The "word" is to leave that to the pros. Still, people do it and the mountains collect more aluminum each year. Some folks subscribe to the 30/30 rule out here. That is they don't fly in the mountains unless the winds aloft are below 30 kts and the visibility is greater than 30 miles. Those numbers can be pushed a little bit but high winds will result in a lot of turbulence over the taller hills.

Nothing wrong with IFR in VMC but you could just get flight following. Of course you'll probably have to stay up near the MEAs to get radar coverage.

On the oxygen systems, well the "cheapies" (okay, none of 'em are cheap) will work just fine. You could build your own system but a lot of the cost is in the regulator so at best you save maybe a hundred bucks and spend a lot of time scrounging parts.

I have a 24 cubic ft aluminum cylinder SkyOx system with cannula. It lasts a long time so I don't have to worry about finding refills at every stop. Some folks don't like the SkyOx regulator since it is a diaphragm unit. I let the purists worry about details like that. A pulse oximeter can be had for about $60 and the oximeter may be more important than the oxygen system. Buy the oximeter from a medical supply shop rather than an aviation supply store to find good prices.
 
Not too much to add, other than personal anecdote. Flew down to the Bahamas last month, and was at 10K+ much o the way down for winds. We were in a turbo with built-in O2, but the O2 tanks were empty. After a couple of hours at 12K, I noticed my thinking was a little fuzzy. Pulled out the pulse oximeter and found it was reading in the upper 70's. I could bring it into the 80's with controlled breathing, but it was enough to get me to request lower.

As others have said (and you've acknowledged), get a portable O2 system.
If you sell it on eBay, remember that you'll almost certainly need to ship it empty.
Go VFR with flight following over the mountains. Yes, it's not guaranteed to be available system, but, if you're in radio range (another topic) it will likely be there. And the VFR gives you a lot of additonal flexibility.
 
I'm going to agree with this.
If you ever get some mountain flying training out here one of the topics covered will be no IFR in IMC. The "word" is to leave that to the pros. Still, people do it and the mountains collect more aluminum each year. Some folks subscribe to the 30/30 rule out here. That is they don't fly in the mountains unless the winds aloft are below 30 kts and the visibility is greater than 30 miles. Those numbers can be pushed a little bit but high winds will result in a lot of turbulence over the taller hills.
This is especially true if you have only flown on the east coast. I wouldn't mess with IMC over the mountains in February. If by chance you do pick up ice your airplane isn't going to perform nearly as well at the MEAs as it would on the east coast, plus the surface temperatures beneath you are most likely going to be below freezing so you won't be able to melt it off.

And this.
Nothing wrong with IFR in VMC but you could just get flight following. Of course you'll probably have to stay up near the MEAs to get radar coverage.
 
I've flown to Vegas from Atlanta in my M20J. I used KHND for the reasons given by Vince45 above. He is right. I personally would not do this trip without O2. You are just giving up too much flexibility not having it. Heck, if you're not going to be gone too long and for some reason you are going via the Altanta area, I'll loan you my system.

It's a great trip for a Mooney; have fun and tell us all about it after.

I live in Las Vegas and fly cross country regularly around here with no supplimental 02. Plan to go VFR.. the IFR MEAs are way to high in a lot of areas. And as another post stated.. if you are SE IFR, most likely you'll have icing issues anyway.

I'm departing here next spring for Maine, T-41B, my plan is LAS to IGM and I-40 east until well east of ABQ... then NE to Maine.
 
No need for O2 or VFR, but VFR will be a lot more direct.

Once you get to the ACH VOR east of Albuquerque, get off V12 and take V234 instead (MEA of 10,000). Once you hit the ABQ VOR, its 9000ft afterwards.

You don't need O2 at 10,000ft, despite what the FAA recommends.
 
You don't need O2 at 10,000ft, despite what the FAA recommends.

Correction, Nick. You don't need it at 10,000 ft and I don't need it at 10,000 ft.

Some people, on the other hand, might. Everyone's body is different.
 
I agree with all the posts that recommend routes with MEAs below O2-required levels, with the VFR option, and with getting a solid understanding of mountain flying.

But I'm also going with the "borrow or rent portable O2" recommendation. I had been flying in the the Rockies for years and finally decided to do one under IFR. In this case, it was a beautiful CAVU day, but the idea was to see how the airplane performed at the 15K/16K MEAs - to know whether IFR was a viable option to have in my flight bag.

For the purpose of the flight, we rented portable O2.

The result of that flight is that, despite being acclimated to altitude, if we plan a trip that involves cross country flight over high terrain, we take O2 with us. We don't use it that much but the extra options it provides us are well worth the minimal extra expense.
 
Borrow/buy an O2 tank - it's not so much the altitudes, but you're probably not
used to flying at 10-14K for long periods of time. The O2 will help alleviate the effects and keep you much more comfortable.

As for Las Vegas - go to Henderson (HND) rather than VGT unless there's a compelling reason to be on the north side. With HND you don't need to deal with the additional traffic of LAS and VGT and Nellis.
 
Do you have to go IFR for some reason? The best part of flying out west is seeing the beautiful scenery!

[snip]

The airports are farther apart and the terrain is much less forgiving. Take lots of extra fuel, don't push anything weather-wise, and enjoy yourself. :yes:

I returned from CA to WI last year via the highest part of the Rockies in a 182, and never needed to climb above 13,500. (Loveland Pass is at 12,990 feet, so I went through it at 13,500.)

However, I highly recommend you find a good mountain flying course to take before attempting such things. I went to http://www.mountaincanyounflying.com/ which was a spectacular experience, but it's a bit out of your way. ;)

If you haven't completed a mountain flying course, AND are not familiar with the terrain around here, do NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT! attempt Loveland Pass. Even in a Mooney. There are no "outs". Unless, of course, you're willing to land on either a mountain road or a mountain road that's an interstate.

Following I-70 between Denver and Vail (V134?) is not a good idea. Go a bit north and follow I-80, or a bit south from Alamosa over La Veta Pass. Even at 12.5 you'll be 3.5 above the road, plenty of "outs" on either side of the pass, and you'll still be well below the 14ers on either side of you. It's also an IFR route (V210/83). The MEAs either route are well above 14K.

Remember the O2!!!!
 
If you haven't completed a mountain flying course, AND are not familiar with the terrain around here, do NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT! attempt Loveland Pass.
Of course, if you have completed a mountain flying course, AND are very familiar with the terrain around here, you won't attempt Loveland Pass normally aspirated unless the conditions are extremely favorable.
 
What's with this macho "I don't need no stinkin O2"? Even those who claim no effects at 10K, can't say that for night ops...and night ops happen! Even those who claim no effects at 10K will be more tired after a long XC at that altitude without O2.

As many of us have tried to say, O2 gives you more flexibility whether VFR or IFR. You can go higher when winds make that favorable; you can fly higher at night and still have full color vision; you can arrive more rested even flying below 12,500'.

Consider O2 like carrying more fuel than you may think you need. Much better to have it and not need it than to not have it and wish you did.
 
Following I-70 between Denver and Vail (V134?) is not a good idea.
Here's a clue why.

eisenhower-tunnel1.jpg
 
Consider O2 like carrying more fuel than you may think you need. Much better to have it and not need it than to not have it and wish you did.

Well put, Lance.

(btw: Hope you didn't think I'm in the macho "I don't need O2" camp - I've just done enough XCs above 10k, including at night, to know my body acts. An O2 system is still what I'm getting for Christmas this year)
 
If you haven't completed a mountain flying course, AND are not familiar with the terrain around here, do NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT! attempt Loveland Pass. Even in a Mooney.

Agreed - Heck, without the mountain flying course, I'd plan on staying south of KLVS.

Following I-70 between Denver and Vail (V134?) is not a good idea.

I was going to say why, but Mari beat me to it. And the Eisenhower tunnels are at 11,158 feet. The terrain is significantly higher. Nearby Loveland Pass is at 12,990 feet, and the peaks are well above that.

Go a bit north and follow I-80,

Yep. If you're following roads, that is. The highest elevation on I-80 is 8,640 feet.
 
Mari, is the clue "traffic is moving too slow to safely fly thru the tunnel?" :)
 
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