NAFI? / SAFE?

Vince45

Filing Flight Plan
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Vince45

I received my offer to renew my NAFI Membership today. I have been loosely following the saga between NAFI and the new emerging group, SAFE. I was wondering what the (hopefully) unbiased opinions on the topic were from CFI's on the message board.

Are current NAFI members staying with NAFI, are you jumping over to SAFE or are you just staying away from professional membership organiztions for now?
 
im staying with NAFI. sent in my Master application last week. The organization does well in promoting instructors, prints a very nice magazine geared at all sorts of instructing, and administers the master program.
 
im staying with NAFI. sent in my Master application last week. The organization does well in promoting instructors, prints a very nice magazine geared at all sorts of instructing, and administers the master program.

Well, since the Master CFI program is the intellectual property of Sandy and JoAnn Hill, at least according to them, I suppose that part is up in the air right now.
 
I haven't heard anything about this....is there a problem within NAFI?
 
I haven't heard anything about this....is there a problem within NAFI?

Several (lots?) of MCFIs aren't renewing. I have no idea what the dust-up is about. Maybe a dispute about the definition of known-icing???

At any rate, it's a real tempest in that particular teapot.
 
The directors pretty much rule with an iron fist, so to say. THere is no membership input to who gets elected to the directors. That is a very basic thumbnail. If you can look at some of the Aero-News Network's archived podcasts, there are several episodes on this subject.
 
I heard an interview with Sandy and JoAnn Hill yesterday where they affirmed that they have signed a LOA with the FAA regarding their education program. They went further on to affirm that they have legal opinions regarding their rights over the master instructor program and are ready to take NAFI to court. Check the podcast at ANN.
 
Several (lots?) of MCFIs aren't renewing. I have no idea what the dust-up is about. Maybe a dispute about the definition of known-icing???

At any rate, it's a real tempest in that particular teapot.

id be interested to see the actual number who are leaving. i bet its not that many in the grand scheme, just a very vocal few, if you are listening.

frankly there are barely enough active CFI's to support 1 organization, let alone 2.
 
right, safe has ~450 members, but not all of them quit NAFI, and not all of them were Master instructors.
 
yep, and my initial wondering thought was not very clear, but i was curious how many masters had jumped ship. i think NAFI is/was about 6000 members, so we're talking around 5% of total membership has probably left over this deal? apparently the SAFE people arent good at getting the word out or their message has fallen on a lot of deaf ears.
 
yep, and my initial wondering thought was not very clear, but i was curious how many masters had jumped ship. i think NAFI is/was about 6000 members, so we're talking around 5% of total membership has probably left over this deal? apparently the SAFE people arent good at getting the word out or their message has fallen on a lot of deaf ears.

Even though I still do enough to quailfy, I stood down from a couple 2 year hitches in the Master CFI program, just because it took about 1 weekend's time just for me to do all their paperwork for no real return on my investments. It's a good concept though and NAFI's cool, I'm still staying with them.
 
yea the paperwork is pretty intense. im not sure if there is much return on the investment. i guess ill find out. i had a month or so of unemployment which helped for processing the paperwork.
 
I'm still with NAFI and I'll stick around for a year to see what happens. But, I'll support SAFE and also see what they can do to improve things.

I do want to see a more transparent organization. The folks involved in creating SAFE has promised that. So, we'll see. It's hard to give something a chance if you don't support the effort.
 
Lads and Ladies of POA, I've been a proud NAFI Master CFI several times over. The renewal process is time consuming and expensive, but when NAFI fired Sandy & Joanne Hill, I was quite put off. I asked NAFI several times what the problem was but never got a straight answer. I then asked SAFE as well, but they don't want to give many details either. Perhaps it was the Hill's upcoming legal struggle that kept a cloud over the details.

I really like the Hills, and they should "own" the NAFI Master Program, especially the FAA agreement where you can renew your CFI when you renew your Master. Brilliant! So when the Hills moved to SAFE, I joined as a charter 'Bronze" member of SAFE for $100. I was a bit surprised that no letter of acknowledgement was received by me (although they said they sent one - but darned if I see it in any of my incoming emails, nor in my US Mail.)

Ya' know, just a quick "thanks" for sending more dues money than really needed 'cause I wanted to help SAFE get started.

Then I get an email asking members to vote for the new SAFE Board. This email didn't include the SAFE website URL, obviously a honest omission, so I reply asking what it is. I then get a smart remark about the URL being included in previous emails from SAFE. The reply inferred "here it is dummy -- but you should know it by now."

Okee-dokey. So I couldn't remember the URL for SAFE and since I had dumped all previous emails, I therefore concluded by their uppity reply that I am apparently not "qualified" to be a SAFE member (much less a recurring Master with that organization) since I have NOT MEMORIZED the SAFE website URL. I have more important things to memorize, but wait -- should checklists be memorized or referred to as written? Off-topic, never-mind.

So I asked for my $100 Bronze membership fee back to which they quickly replied they would be "happy" to return my money. I replied "Happy?" - can SAFE really be "happy" to lose a member? One with extra cash to toss at them? Wow, they are getting a bit confident early in the game. I guess they don't need an old "glider goober" from Texas (sorry Pete, it is just the hat!) So SAFE is "Happy", laughing their snotty SkyGod butts off, I suppose, and I'm the sucker for sending them $100. OK, not the first time I've been an easy touch, but I'm learning who should get it and who shouldn't.

They concluded their email with a sarcastic (OK, my opinion) "Good Luck!" I don't need the SAFE SkyGods to wish me good luck. I MAKE my own luck, thank you. (Want my recipe?)

SAFE might have just said, "Gee Burt, we are sure that you are quite busy runnin' your Marfa, Texas yeehaw glider goober flight school which is quite successful in spite of the lousy economy because you work hard teaching the very UNIQUE SKILLS required to fly gliders safely and showing visiting pilots a real good time down yonder and we apologize for assuming you KNEW the SAFE website URL so here it is -- and by the way we want you onboard."

But Noooooo, I got the brush-off and something about how they are really busy or stressed. Stress? IMSAFE? Oh, the irony!

Since I don't pretend to be a SkyGod after 42 years of flyin' airplanes (challenging) and gliders (more challenging) I've decided I don't want to join another uppity bunch of pretend SkyGod's. Now SAFE is trying to figure out how to refund my $100!

As far as NAFI, I shall be letting my membership lapse with them as well, along with EAA. Both have become way too big. Neither have a clue who I am and what I do, and they don't seem to care if they lose a member here and there.

So I'm opting out of most all flying organizations except perhaps AOPA for their legal advice option / insurance discount, and the Soaring Society of America. These organizations work to keep me as a member, and provide tangible SERVICES I can really use.

If you wanna be a "Master" of something, consider it takes more than filling out forms and sending in your money. It takes passion, hard work, a willingness to always continue learning and an attitude of helpfulness and caring for your fellow Earthlings. If you can make Aviators out of those Earthlings, then you may declare yourself a Master Instructor (in your own mind) and you don't need to pay anyone to bestow this upon you. You don't necessarily need a pretty plaque to be self-confident and to know that you are really good at what you do, in any occupation. But if you think it will help your resume, join NAFI, SAFE, ASCAP, BMI, NASCAR, etc. It's your gig.

So I'm still looking for my $100 refund from SAFE. Apparently I'm the first to depart -- there's an honor! As my Dad would chuckle, "Time Wounds All Heels."

On to better topics! Or the tropics!

Burt
Marfa, west Texas
Where yesterday's "USA Today" arrives tomorrow, and our annual Texas Glider Rally begins this Saturday!
 
I've pretty much had it with organizations that let internal power struggles and egos mess with their missions. Until the dust settles and I see what they have to offer, I'm taking a seat on the sidelines.
 
I listened to all the opinions and interviews on Aero-News (cool Podcasts by the way), checked out the websites and read all the above messages. I am leaning toward not renewing and waiting to see how the dust settles. Kind of like sitting on the fence and not making a decision, which I normally can't stand seeing or doing. However, in this case it just infuriates me to see organizations with such in-fighting that it splinters into what we are seeing here.
 
If you wanna be a "Master" of something, consider it takes more than filling out forms and sending in your money. It takes passion, hard work, a willingness to always continue learning and an attitude of helpfulness and caring for your fellow Earthlings. If you can make Aviators out of those Earthlings, then you may declare yourself a Master Instructor (in your own mind) and you don't need to pay anyone to bestow this upon you. You don't necessarily need a pretty plaque to be self-confident and to know that you are really good at what you do, in any occupation. But if you think it will help your resume, join NAFI, SAFE, ASCAP, BMI, NASCAR, etc. It's your gig.

Bravo, Burt! Well said.

Nice to have you on POA! We'll meet one of these days when I get some lead out of my butt and get down to Marfa to hang out with Dr. Dave and do some glider instruction with you.
 
Well, it appears that the bickering has accomplished something:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

NAFI APPROVES MEMBER-ELECTED BOARD

NAFI HEADQUARTERS, OSHKOSH, Wis. - (May 8, 2009) - The National
Association of Flight Instructors (NAFI) will begin transitioning to a
board that is comprised of at least 51 percent of directors elected by
NAFI membership. The move was approved at the regular spring meeting of
the NAFI Board of Directors last week in Oshkosh.

The board considered recommendations made by the Governance Committee at
its March meeting in Ft. Myers, Florida. Those recommendations were
based on months of study of a number of governance structures including
professional associations, aviation groups such as AOPA and EAA, and
non-profit organizations outside of aviation. It also considered expert
opinions on the workings of volunteer boards of directors.

The final version is fairly similar to the EAA governance structure, but
without as many classes of director. NAFI will have two classes of
directors, both voting, with a majority of board seats to be filled by
election, while reserving a minority of the seats to be appointed by the
full board to assure that key skill sets, such as financial, legal, and
management expertise, are always present on the board.

Implementation of this resolution requires that elements of the NAFI/EAA
affiliation agreement be brought into alignment. For example, the
current affiliation agreement between NAFI and EAA prohibits direct
member election of NAFI directors. The NAFI Board will present the
proposed resolution to EAA for review, and upon approval by EAA and NAFI
of revisions to the affiliation agreement, NAFI will be able to formally
implement the change.

The board is excited about this impending change to NAFI's governance
structure. While awaiting formal approval of revisions to the
affiliation agreement, the board would like to informally begin the
nomination process. The board asks that members who are interested in
serving in a position of leadership should contact Executive Director
Jason Blair at the Oshkosh office. Please give a brief bio and an
indication of the things you would be interested in working on, as well
as the skills you bring to that task.

To aid in that effort, the standing committees are:
* Governance
* Administration and Finance
* Development
* Nominations
* Communications
* Government Relations
* Professional Standards
* Programs
* Marketing
Over the past several months, your board has been working to address
requests that our members have made for structural changes in the
organization. The board has addressed these issues in a deliberate,
collegial manner and received welcome input from a number of members and
others. The board continues to welcome your input or feedback on this or
anything else affecting flight instruction or flight instructors.
 
The directors pretty much rule with an iron fist, so to say. THere is no membership input to who gets elected to the directors.

This actually is changing as we speak, er, type. The change to a board that is comprised of at least 51% of members that are elected by the NAFI membership-at-large is going thru the final stages of approval. Don't think I said that very clearly, but hopefully you get my meaning.
 
And since this thread seems to be populated primarily with instructors, NAFI has a new streaming video online about "CFI Liability". It's 38 minutes long and is a round table discussion with an insurance VP, an aviation attorney, and the exec. director of NAFI. Even if it's not the most exciting topic, it sure is one that instructors need to be current with. Give it a view at www.NAFILive.com. It's on the home page.
 
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