Piper Dakota Down in Muncie

Not sure if this aircraft has been sitting a while but I have an enterprise level account on Flightaware, and it only shows me 2 historical flights (3/29/24 and 4/1/24).

Normally I can go back > 6 months on past flights.
 
Kyle N said:
Not sure if this aircraft has been sitting a while but I have an enterprise level account on Flightaware, and it only shows me 2 historical flights (3/29/24 and 4/1/24).

Normally I can go back > 6 months on past flights.
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I saw that too, but that approach didn't even look slightly off. It was way off right.
 
Definitely right of course for several miles. There’s an ATC recording from Indy Approach that is talking to several other aircraft on the approach. He’s having to hold them because the Cherokee is still on the approach, then near the end approach says the Cherokee “wanted to do a 360 with the tower, he was back established in final, and now the target is showing a mile west of the airport with no altitude.” Then he confirms a few minutes later that the aircraft went down on the greenway.


Most of the relevant stuff is in the last 10 minutes. Unfortunately no recording from Delaware County tower.
 
Flying Keys said:
Definitely right of course for several miles. There’s an ATC recording from Indy Approach that is talking to several other aircraft on the approach. He’s having to hold them because the Cherokee is still on the approach, then near the end approach says the Cherokee “wanted to do a 360 with the tower, he was back established in final, and now the target is showing a mile west of the airport with no altitude.” Then he confirms a few minutes later that the aircraft went down on the greenway.


Most of the relevant stuff is in the last 10 minutes. Unfortunately no recording from Delaware County tower.
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Thanks for posting that. I put in the freq of the approach on the plate and LiveATC didn't bring it up. I should have done a more generic search.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Thanks for posting that. I put in the freq of the approach on the plate and LiveATC didn't bring it up. I should have done a more generic search.
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Yeah, without the tower tape, we don’t know if he cancelled IFR and went visual. Though if that was the case, approach should have gotten a release for the subsequent inbounds and with the field being solid IFR (see below), tower probably wouldn’t have allowed it, anyway. Either way, a 360 is obviously not the missed approach procedure.

Maybe he was intending to circle for runway 3? But we may not know much more until the tower tapes come in, which will probably at least be mentioned in the NTSB prelim. I find it interesting that both radar (as stated by approach) and ADS-B continued to pick him up for a few minutes after the crash. Maybe the impact didn’t immediately disrupt the battery, transponder, and ADS-B?

Anyway, here’s the weather (the accident occurred sometime between 1425 and 1427):

KMIE 011353Z 05010KT 10SM BKN007 10/08 A2987 RMK AO2 CIG 005V011 SLP112 T01000078

KMIE 011437Z 05010KT 5SM BR OVC004 09/08 A2988 RMK AO2 T00940078

KMIE 011453Z 06011KT 8SM OVC004 09/08 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP115 60000 T00940078 51013

Obviously deteriorating. Cat A and B minimums for the RNAV 14 are 321-1 for LPV, 356-1-1/4 for LNAV/VNAV, 487-1 for LNAV, and 523-1-1/4 for circling. Heights in AGL.
 
Flying Keys said:
Yeah, without the tower tape, we don’t know if he cancelled IFR and went visual. Though if that was the case, approach should have gotten a release for the subsequent inbounds and with the field being solid IFR (see below), tower probably wouldn’t have allowed it, anyway. Either way, a 360 is obviously not the missed approach procedure.

Maybe he was intending to circle for runway 3? But we may not know much more until the tower tapes come in, which will probably at least be mentioned in the NTSB prelim. I find it interesting that both radar (as stated by approach) and ADS-B continued to pick him up for a few minutes after the crash. Maybe the impact didn’t immediately disrupt the battery, transponder, and ADS-B?

Anyway, here’s the weather (the accident occurred sometime between 1425 and 1427):

KMIE 011353Z 05010KT 10SM BKN007 10/08 A2987 RMK AO2 CIG 005V011 SLP112 T01000078

KMIE 011437Z 05010KT 5SM BR OVC004 09/08 A2988 RMK AO2 T00940078

KMIE 011453Z 06011KT 8SM OVC004 09/08 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP115 60000 T00940078 51013

Obviously deteriorating. Cat A and B minimums for the RNAV 14 are 321-1 for LPV, 356-1-1/4 for LNAV/VNAV, 487-1 for LNAV, and 523-1-1/4 for circling. Heights in AGL.
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I have it on good authority that they tried to dispatch the Life Flight helicopter to the scene but they refused due to the weather. It was yucky.
 
recreational IMC is not my go-to for "fun", but it's legal.

As to planes not showing on the stalky-ADSB sites, my last one would have shown nothing even though it was flown, given I flew in anon mode (978s FTW) and the aggregators don't pick that one up. Or maybe I forgot to turn mine on (some 978s have the on/off functionality, tail/sky beacon being the pack leader on that one), or it was broken without my good faith best available knowledge. :biggrin:
 
I work in Muncie. Local rumor is that he was off course, went missed, and got slow on the climbout. The weather was low and chilly. I would've been worried about ice. There's no mention of that, but it could explain a stall/spin at an otherwise safe climb speed.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
I work in Muncie. Local rumor is that he was off course, went missed, and got slow on the climbout. The weather was low and chilly. I would've been worried about ice. There's no mention of that, but it could explain a stall/spin at an otherwise safe climb speed.
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Freezing level was about 10-11k yesterday, so I wouldn’t be worried about that. The weird, low and slow 360 (if that turns out to be true) at the end of an approach that was already way off makes a lot more sense.
 
StraightnLevel said:
??? The report says temp/dew point was 9/8. That sounds a lot lower than 11,000. Am I missing something?
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Close temp/dew point, maybe a warm front...?...during a warm front, 11,000 wouldn't be unusual. Normal lapse rate would put it at about 5000, which still wouldn't have iced him up on this approach....
 
StraightnLevel said:
??? The report says temp/dew point was 9/8. That sounds a lot lower than 11,000. Am I missing something?
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Before I made that statement, I had literally pulled up the skew-t, all the AIRMETs, and icing forecasts/freezing levels valid for that time. There was a pretty big inversion along the stationary front and Muncie was still in the warm sector at the time. Gotta look into these things with data and evidence.
 
Flying Keys said:
Before I made that statement, I had literally pulled up the skew-t, all the AIRMETs, and icing forecasts/freezing levels valid for that time. There was a pretty big inversion along the stationary front and Muncie was still in the warm sector at the time. Gotta look into these things with data and evidence.
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Thank you - that's why I asked the question.
 
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