My sweet honey at C81

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Bees are awesome. Been doing it for years, have no idea what I'm doing. For the most part, I leave them alone and they do pretty well.
Honestly I had zero interest in doing it until my dad got some. Even then had zero interest. Until he asked me to help. Got hooked. Fascinating little creatures and you learn they're smarter than us.

I don't mark my queens either. I'm not really looking for her when I do hive inspections. Just evidence of her. But where there's fresh eggs, the queen isn't far. I can usually pick her up pretty quick if I'm trying. Some of the comb is probably in its last year. Been contemplating going foundationless.
 
So I’m imagining if I wanted to dip my toe in, there are bee-keeping clubs or I could find a local keeper to help…but is there one book or websites (POA for beekeepers) and a supplier recommended that has a “starter kit”?
 
So I’m imagining if I wanted to dip my toe in, there are bee-keeping clubs or I could find a local keeper to help…but is there one book or websites (POA for beekeepers) and a supplier recommended that has a “starter kit”?
By me there's the Lake County beekeepers association, I went to one of the meetings after I had already got started and realized rather quickly that I wasn't gonna fit in with that crowd.There's people out there that will help you for a small fee, kind of show you what to look for. Its too late to start this year but I'm sure there's people near you that would love a hand and geek out just as hard as I did in this thread, and I'm not in a club. Then you'd get an idea at least what it's all about.

https://indianabeekeeper.com/local_clubs


Dadant offers a few different starter kits, along with anything else you can imagine https://www.dadant.com/catalog/10-frame-deep-9-5-8-starter-kit-commercial-assembled-painted

Theres some things there you really don't need in that kit, or I would swap out. I don't care for the veil/suit they offer in there for one. And like @UngaWunga I don't use a smoker. I've actually placed an order with Dadant flew up to their Watertown location, used the airports courtesy car and loaded the plane up. I've also got stuff from Mann Lake as well, and they also have starter packages...err....kits. not packages. Packages are what new bees come as. Usually 3lb packag with a queen about $135 ish. But it would really help giving someone a hand first

There's a ton of resources around. Some of them offer their opinions or theories as fact but they're good resources nonetheless.

https://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm is really good
https://www.beesource.com/ is a good forum.

Be prepared for some reading. I had no intention on learning about all of it, but they're fascinating creatures.
 
So I’m imagining if I wanted to dip my toe in, there are bee-keeping clubs or I could find a local keeper to help…but is there one book or websites (POA for beekeepers) and a supplier recommended that has a “starter kit”?
I guarantee there's a club near you. We have a "central Illinois beekeepers association" or CIBA that I follow on FB. Beekeepers are almost as bad as pilots when it comes to talking about their hobby/business and evangelizing for it.
 
It seems really cool, but I'm scared of getting stung (last time, I had to go to the hospital). Is there a difference between bee stings and hornet stings?
 
It seems really cool, but I'm scared of getting stung (last time, I had to go to the hospital). Is there a difference between bee stings and hornet stings?

Yes. Hornets are just mean ****ers. Bees are more live and let live. I can hang out right in front of my hive, and they'll just fly around me. Pretty relaxing to watch them work. I do wear pants, bee jacket with hood, and dishwashing gloves when opening the hive though. Bees only get really mean when the hive is stressed.. like when the queen is gone/dead, they're starving, pests/mice are destroying them, etc.

When you let your eyes focus in and realize that bee crawling across the mesh on your bee hat is not OUTSIDE... :crazy:
 
Yes. Hornets are just mean ****ers. Bees are more live and let live.

That's not really my question, I'm aware that they behave differently. I want to know if the stings are different, or if I'd have to run to the ER every time I got stung.
 
It seems really cool, but I'm scared of getting stung (last time, I had to go to the hospital). Is there a difference between bee stings and hornet stings?
I used to be terrified of bees until I actually got stung a couple times. For me, it's comparable to a good nurse giving a shot; a little pain, but not much, and afterwards kind of like a really angry pimple. It's more the surprise than the actual pain. I've been fortunate to never be stung by a hornet though. The internet claims that the venom is different, and you can be allergic to one but not the other.

We have a friend who runs an orchard and has bees. She doesn't even bother with the suit & gloves when she's working with her own bees. She does wear the hat to keep them out of face. She claims to almost never get stung.
 
That's not really my question, I'm aware that they behave differently. I want to know if the stings are different, or if I'd have to run to the ER every time I got stung.

That's kindof up to you and how your body reacts. I don't have those issues with either.
 
The internet claims that the venom is different, and you can be allergic to one but not the other.

That's more my question. I got stung once (actually... a dozen times) when I was about 5 and have had worse reactions every time since (hornets every time though).
 
Hornets can and will sting multiple times. The stinger is larger and longer than bees but apparently significantly less "toxic". They are different. When people say they got stung by a bee, it's almost never a honey bee. Wasp or hornet is the likely culprit. Bees want to work. I could be standing right in front of all ten of my hives for an hour and have zero issues. They might bounce off but unless you swat theyll leave you alone.

If you're concerned about getting stung and interested in bees id see an allergist. My record for stings in a day is 32. One angry queenless hive. A month later after getting queenright back to normal. But even with all those stings I just had sniffles.
 

notice how after shaking them out of the box, all the workers start walking up towards the queen, who is still in the screened box.
 
Drone cells are much larger. Bees are haploid or diploid. Haploid are drones. Diploid are females or workers. The queen bee feels the cell size with her front legs and if it's too large, she won't fertilize the egg and it will be a drone. If it's the right size she'll turn the sperm faucet on and fertilize the egg and you'll have a worker.

Biologically speaking worker bees and queen bees are the same. However, worker bees were fed a different diet before they were hatched. When a hive senses they're queenless they'll look for fresh eggs between 1-3 days old. They'll build several of these cells out in the shape of a peanut giving the pupae more room to grow and feed it only royal jelly which is really just protein. Queens take 16 days to emerge. Workers 21. Drones 24. One queen per hive. On occasion the hive will run out of room and that's when they want to swarm. They'll build a bunch of queen cells. When the first hatches scout bees have already found a suitable home. So half the hive will leave with the old queen to where the scout bees decided. The old hive has the new queen and she will go and tear down all the other queen cells in the hive. She'll take her mating flights a week or so later. Then a week or so after that start laying herself. If you have bad weather during mating flights she won't get mated and will be a drone laying queen. If the bees don't have what they need to make a queen with eggs, you will get laying workers. But these will only be drones and the hive will be angry as hell. Laying workers are almost impossible to stop once they start and you're better off shaking the hive out. A good queen that has been properly bred could live up to 3 years. It's been claimed that one has lived up to 7 years. Workers are 8-12 weeks!

Wow. Makes the whole he/him, she/her, they/them thing seem downright simple! :rofl:
 
Re-queened an angry hive. The only time I've ever had a hive get to this point. Dispatched of the old queen last week. Gave them a few days to build queen cells. Took a couple frames with queen cells out and put them in a nuc. Took the queen from the nuc and put her in a queen cage with a fondant plug and put her in the angry hive. Fondant plug gives the queen food to eat until the hive recognizes her pheromones and will eventually eat at the other side of the fondant to release her. IMG_20230628_194515278.jpg Came back today to see if she was released. Hive was already more calm...still angry, but better. I marked this queen to find her a little better.
 
Re-queened an angry hive. The only time I've ever had a hive get to this point. Dispatched of the old queen last week. Gave them a few days to build queen cells. Took a couple frames with queen cells out and put them in a nuc. Took the queen from the nuc and put her in a queen cage with a fondant plug and put her in the angry hive. Fondant plug gives the queen food to eat until the hive recognizes her pheromones and will eventually eat at the other side of the fondant to release her. View attachment 118523 Came back today to see if she was released. Hive was already more calm...still angry, but better. I marked this queen to find her a little better.
What characterizes an angry hive? Do they simply sting?
 
Glad to see this airport talked about here. I’ve been there many times in my beautiful Baron. The runways are a bit narrow for me in a twin but I’ve become comfortable with the margins.

Viper
 
This device works! My daughter keeps 15 hives in Colorado, and keeps these around. She no longer gets stung frequently but when she does, she swears by this gizmo:

thebugbitething.com

It is basically a vacuum syringe device which sucks the venom out of a bite site before its toxins get distributed. That's a very non-scientific description, but it works!

-Skip
 
What characterizes an angry hive? Do they simply sting?
So usually you can tell a hive is angry by the sound as soon as you pop the lid off. You'll also see bees with their rears in the air. Then they'll give off an alarm pheromone that smells like banana's. Then they'll start flying into you and trying to sting you through the suit. A calm hive not only won't do that, but they will not follow you like an angry hive will. You walk away and the bees leave. Unless its chilly out, then any bees that land on you tend to stay on you for warmth. An angry hive, the bees follow you and keep bumping you wherever you go.

The trick is to figure out why they're angry. Was it too late in the day? Nectar dearth? Queenless? Or out of room and ready to swarm? In my case in this instance it was none of the above. Mid day, good nectar flow, with good evidence of a laying mated queen. I was thinking they could potentially be tight on space, but wasnt seeing swarm cells (queen cells, but a ton of them). Sometimes if they go queenless long enough you'll get a worker that starts laying. But since she's never been mated she'll only lay drones. A laying worker lays a weird pattern and will lay multiple eggs in a cell. This will make an angry hive and its very difficult if not impossible to correct. Most people shake the hive out and walk away rather than try to make it queenright.

This hive just kept getting more and more difficult to work over the course of 3-5 weeks. It got so bad they would annoy and sting you hundreds of yards away when you were just outside. I dreaded doing a hive inspection. Finally did a very thorough inspection and was able to find the queen. She was still a prolific layer, the hive overwintered, and was making honey like crazy. Already had 4 super boxes and needed more. Its a rarity the queen herself makes the hive angry but the telltale sign was it getting progressively worse over the course of weeks with no other causes. Once I dispatched of her, which was actually difficult to do because it was such a good hive. I waited a week to get her pheromones out and the bees to start building queencells. This lets me know the hive knows they were queenless. Then I cage a queen from a nucleus colony I hive I have along with some attendants and place her in the angry hive. Direct release into the new hive would result in immediate death to new queen. Hive needs time to recognize her. So the cage is capped with fondant or a marshmallow and come back in a few days. 2 weeks later the hive was still angry, but significantly easier to work with. New queen was released and laying nicely. After 4-6 weeks all was back to normal.
 
Glad to see this airport talked about here. I’ve been there many times in my beautiful Baron. The runways are a bit narrow for me in a twin but I’ve become comfortable with the margins.

Viper
If you can land at c81 or 10c, you can probably land anywhere.
 
@Racerx , I thought of you not too long ago when reading Jodi Picoult's "Mad Honey". Lots of good bee info similar to your recent post. Be forewarned, the book delves into some controversial topics should you chose to read it.
 
I’m heavy into the YT absorbing all I can. Re-reading the above posts makes a LOT more sense now. I’ll order some books soon. Probably too late to get started for this season, just got too much going on between now and early June.
 
I’m heavy into the YT absorbing all I can. Re-reading the above posts makes a LOT more sense now. I’ll order some books soon. Probably too late to get started for this season, just got too much going on between now and early June.
All of my hives made it through the winter. Was worried with that week of -30. Dad went 2 out of 9. One of his absconded before I put the winter candy boards on. Didn't really do anything different between his and mine. He's my neighbor so location shouldn't really matter. Mine did have mouse guards earlier but that's the only thing. My hives are going like gangbusters and damn near ready to split right now. I'm hopeful it'll be warm enough for bees to be flying once the maple trees start blooming.

I get dad's packages last week of March. I get them from a place 10 minutes or so from C09, but I still end having to drive. You can go package bees and start from nothing, or can start from a nuc and have bees already laying with brood. They don't need to build out every cell for the queen to start laying. Not that much more and no risk of the queen not being accepted. Local Nuc's are usually available around May.

When you get 2 or 3lb (I prefer 3#)a package you get a bunch of bees shaken together from a number of hives along with a queen they don't know. So you have the queen in the cage for a few days until the workers recognize wtf just happened and accept her pheromones as their new queen. Release too soon, or if a queen got shook in with the package and they'll just kill the queen as soon as she's released.


 
This has been an interesting read.

One question: How do you remember all of their names.??
 
Did they stick around because they had enough food, or do they die if not enough?

Also, how can you tell they’ve left (swarmed and absconded) vs some catastrophic event? Damage and bodies?

If you don’t split, do all of them leave? I got the impression that half leave with the old queen and new queens are hatched in the current hive.
 
This has been an interesting read.

One question: How do you remember all of their names.??
We don't name the livestock!

Workers during nectar flow season only live 8-12 weeks depending on if you've reduced them to natural 4.8mm size or left them 5.3mm.

Queens can live long enough to run out of sperm and become unproductive. They breed once and there's 60k bees at peak season and not unheard of to live 2-3 years. So (weird) people do name queens.
 
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I have a wild hive in the Hackberry tree in my front yard. I was pleased to see bees buzzing around the hole again yesterday, which I presume means they survived the winter.
 
Did they stick around because they had enough food, or do they die if not enough?

Also, how can you tell they’ve left (swarmed and absconded) vs some catastrophic event? Damage and bodies?

If you don’t split, do all of them leave? I got the impression that half leave with the old queen and new queens are hatched in the current hive.
There's a plethora of reasons a hive might not make it. Sort of have to do a necropsy when you have a dead out to figure out what happened. Often I'll see a small cluster of dead bees in the middle and honey in the outer frames. Bees tend to want to work up in a small cluster rather than out where it might be colder. Like humans they can. Tolerate the cold. But what often gets them is moisture. Some people wrap their hives to keep heat in and wind off. I don't do that. It's extra effort and I actually think it hurts. If the hive is warmer, the bees are more active. If they're more active, they're gonna eat need more food. Plus wrapping the hive doesn't help with moisture. If anything it hurts. Warm moist air from them breathing rises, hits that cold lid, condenses (sounds familiar) and falls to the center of the hive right where the cluster is. Then they're cold and damp. No bueno. So, what I do is put a snow fence on the windward side to keep the strong gusts off a bit. I make a candy board on top of a cheap plastic queen excluder. Queen excluder goes on top what's called an imirie shim. The shim has a small notch for ventilation. Sugar with a wet sand consistency goes on top of the excluder. Let it dry and then put on the hive. Now any moist air in the hive is going to get absorbed by the sugar if it hasn't been vented out of the notch. Plus the sugar is an extra food source if they run out of honey. At least that's the theory/hope.

The hive that absconded probably realized they didn't have the resources to make the winter and got out of dodge to look for better pastures that probably didn't exist. Often the largest hive will abscond if it has a high mite load and what they perceive as inadequate honey stores. Mite treatment season is always tough for me because I treat with formic acid and the temp requirements have a high of 85 and low of 55. So treat in early September right when I'm trying to leave for my New Mexico elk hunt. I can't really look at the hive during a critical phase of them getting ready for winter

When they abscond, there's no bees at all. No dead bees, no live bees. Everything is gone. Could look good one week, come back the next and there's nothing. No bees. No honey as it was robbed out by other bees once they left. Damn looters.

Swarming season is late April (as soon as drones start flying) to maybe July. The bees know winter is coming and they won't swarm late. If the queen is weak, they'll supercede her, but won't swarm.

If I don't split and if I don't give them room by adding supers they will swarm. When they want to swarm they'll build a ton of queen cells. When they do this theyre gonna swarm. You could tear all the cells down and give em room. Won't help. They're gonna swarm. So when that first virgin queen hatches, roughly 50% of the hive with the old queen will go to the spot the scout bees picked out, usually in a tree not far from the hive. The other half of the hive will tear down the remaining queen cells and stay with the old hive with the virgin queen. I always leave an empty hive out with old comb so the scout bees hopefully choose that. It's worked. Looks like a bee tornado and lasts 15-30 minutes before things calm down and you're left with a giant cluster on a tree, or a new hive.

Splitting a hive is essentially the same thing as a swarm. Only I control it. I'll take the old queen out with a 5 frames of brood of all ages and honey. Making sure I leave brood of all ages as well as fresh eggs so the original hive has what they need to build a new queen. Come back a week later to make sure they've begun to build queen cells. If eggs are too old they won't build them and I'll have to swap out frames of eggs from another hive. Sometimes I'll take that old queen and put her in a nuc. She could be starting to get low on sperm or old, but if the hive made the winter and was doing good I want to keep those traits around. A nuc being 5 frames, when it starts to get full I'll take the frames out and put them in a weaker hive and replace with an empty frame making sure they've got room and don't want to swarm.

Sometimes if I have a weak hive, or a hive that just requeened, I'll pull brood out of the stronger hive next to it to boost the weaker hives numbers. I feel like a hypocrite as it's sort of like socialism as I'm taking resources out of a stronger hive to help out a smaller or recovering hive.

Candy board, the white mesh is the queen excluder.
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Bees swarming on memorial day. The hive on the left swarmed into the empty hive in the middle. There was a bit of a logjam. 15-20 minutes after it started you'd have no idea anything happened.
IMG_20220530_162303797.jpg
 
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I have a wild hive in the Hackberry tree in my front yard. I was pleased to see bees buzzing around the hole again yesterday, which I presume means they survived the winter.
Yes sir...or if the hive didn't make it and a hive within a mile or so of it did. If it was warm enough it could have been getting robbed, but I doubt it. My hives that made it robbed out my dad's hives that didnt. But that's only a few hundred yards. Still being a little chilly they don't fly that far. Bees won't take nectar or honey if its below 55 or so.

"Wild" is a bit of a misnomer. They probably started out as someone's hive and they just swarmed into their new home. Due to the use of neonicotinoids, colony collapse disorder became a real thing and pretty much did away with the truly wild colonies. Damn farmers and their pesticides.
 
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Yes sir...or if the hive didn't make it and a hive within a mile or so of it did. If it was warm enough it could have been getting robbed, but I doubt it. My hives that made it robbed out my dad's hives that didnt. But that's only a few hundred yards. Still being a little chilly they don't fly that far. Bees won't take nectar or honey if its below 55 or so.

"Wild" is a bit of a misnomer. They probably started out as someone's hive and they just swarmed into their new home. Due to the use of neonicotinoids, colony collapse disorder became a real thing and pretty much did away with the truly wild colonies. Damn farmers and their pesticides.
I have a neighbor about 1/2mi away who keeps bees. I presume that's where they came from. I guess I should've called it a feral hive :biggrin:
 
I have a neighbor about 1/2mi away who keeps bees. I presume that's where they came from. I guess I should've called it a feral hive :biggrin:
What would this place be without semantics?
 
there was some tennis tournament this past week that got swarmed by bees, the players had to stop playing. they flew all around but then decided they liked the camera drone the best and set up shop on it. it was pretty funny in a “holy }*#*% I need a flamethrower rn” kinda way.
 
there was some tennis tournament this past week that got swarmed by bees, the players had to stop playing. they flew all around but then decided they liked the camera drone the best and set up shop on it. it was pretty funny in a “holy }*#*% I need a flamethrower rn” kinda way.
Until you see some 100lb hippie chick start scooping them up bare hand and putting them in a box. Makes you question her sanity and your masculinity.
 
What would this place be without semantics?
I'm just glad they picked that tree. No shortage of hollow trees around here, but the 100+ year old Hackberry is the only one safe from getting cut down. Especially now that it's full of bees...
 
I wish I knew more about bees 2 years ago. Neighbor had about a dozen trees cut down and one of them had a huge hive in the hollow of a tree. It would have been nice to be able to “save” those little guys.

I can understand why this is so addictive. I spent NCAA selection Sunday on the couch with some of the final conference tournaments on TV and a bunch of YT new videos on my phone. I got like 1000 steps all day, lol. Very energy efficient…

Watched some stuff about horizontal hives and swarm traps. Interesting.
 
I wish I knew more about bees 2 years ago. Neighbor had about a dozen trees cut down and one of them had a huge hive in the hollow of a tree. It would have been nice to be able to “save” those little guys.

I can understand why this is so addictive. I spent NCAA selection Sunday on the couch with some of the final conference tournaments on TV and a bunch of YT new videos on my phone. I got like 1000 steps all day, lol. Very energy efficient…

Watched some stuff about horizontal hives and swarm traps. Interesting.
Well...you'd be saving the girls. The guys are bums. All they do is eat the honey and 1 in 10,000 will get to breed. They can't even sting.

I know a guy who went with a top bar hive (horizontal). Then switched to the Langstroth hive and hasn't looked back. The thing with the Langstroth style is everyone uses them, so it's easy to find what you need and easy to swap out frames or harvest honey. Some people have elected to go 8 frame boxes instead of 10 frame because of weight and the bees not wanting to work the outer frames during winter anyway. Some people choose to go all 8 frame mediums for weight and to keep all their hardware the same. The problem going mediums is if you ever buy Nucleus colonies, the nucs you buy will be deeps and cant put a deep frame in a medium box. I use the term "medium" and "Super" interchangeably.

Not into college basketball and spent my sunday sanding drywall in the apartment I'm building above my detached garage. Priming whats left tonight. Then repairing some fence after a branch fell and sprung the goats loose. Aint no rest for the wicked.
 
@455 Bravo Uniform and anyone else interested in getting started. I think I've mentioned the different size boxes previously. Good article about the pro's and cons of each. I'm about to leave to pick up dads bee packages and was thinking of trying out a polystyrene nuc when I saw this. Everyone of my hives made the winter and is bursting, so I'll have to split them when the dandelions start popping or start stacking supers.


I run 10 frame deeps, but I have acquired 8 frame medium boxes so I might try to see how that goes. My problem is all my other hives are deeps so I can't really split existing hives into the smaller height boxes. I might add a shim to the first box to make the first 8 frame taller so I can split one of mine into it.
 
@455 Bravo Uniform and anyone else interested in getting started. I think I've mentioned the different size boxes previously. Good article about the pro's and cons of each. I'm about to leave to pick up dads bee packages and was thinking of trying out a polystyrene nuc when I saw this. Everyone of my hives made the winter and is bursting, so I'll have to split them when the dandelions start popping or start stacking supers.


I run 10 frame deeps, but I have acquired 8 frame medium boxes so I might try to see how that goes. My problem is all my other hives are deeps so I can't really split existing hives into the smaller height boxes. I might add a shim to the first box to make the first 8 frame taller so I can split one of mine into it.
This must be how non- pilots feel when we talk... :biggrin:
 
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