Current PPL F/W, working on my instrument when I suddenly received notification from the FAA stating that I am suddenly under investigation for failing to disclose my diagnosis of depression from the VA (military) now that the VA & the FAA are suddenly talking to one another now. I also have a Commercial R/W but haven’t flown R/W in years. I don’t know what to expect. Please Advise.
HIMS
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bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
You are one of the 6,000.
Comply! they have the power (and right now, the program too) to make a class 4 felony "stick". That'll be an unfit end to national service....
. Be prepared for the rough ride, it's not pretty.
As of this point once an investigation is underway they will refuse the surrender of your certificate.
THIS IS WHY YOU NEVER OMIT to the FAA.
WhatEVER were you thinkin? Now this is fundamentally a legal battle. It won't help you in this matter, even if you go out and get a favorable HIMS psychiatry evaluation. The docs are sidelined by FAA legal until this is resolved.
Comply! they have the power (and right now, the program too) to make a class 4 felony "stick". That'll be an unfit end to national service....
. Be prepared for the rough ride, it's not pretty.As of this point once an investigation is underway they will refuse the surrender of your certificate.
THIS IS WHY YOU NEVER OMIT to the FAA.
WhatEVER were you thinkin? Now this is fundamentally a legal battle. It won't help you in this matter, even if you go out and get a favorable HIMS psychiatry evaluation. The docs are sidelined by FAA legal until this is resolved.
Edward Dearborn
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mohawkman
I hear you, but government inefficiency does not absolve the individual from reading and answering the questions on the form honestly.
Jim Schilling
Pre-takeoff checklist
The FAA taking two steps back from their one step forward in medical reform…
Instead of working to address the back log and working towards real reform, we’re starting a witch hunt on vets who have likely developed complications as a direct result of their service.
But hey, Trevor Jacob can get back in the air.
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Instead of working to address the back log and working towards real reform, we’re starting a witch hunt on vets who have likely developed complications as a direct result of their service.
But hey, Trevor Jacob can get back in the air.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, when people get a %80 hearing disability and a check from the VÀ, then walk into an AME's office with no hearing problems, what do you do? It may be more from the VÀ office than the FAA. Just like my neighbor, off from work on disability because of an injury, then getting caught by the insurance company, building a fence, hauling post on his shoulder, and manually digging a post hole.
Jim Schilling
Pre-takeoff checklist
My point isn’t about just vets not being candid in their medical, but the wider problems with FAA medicals. We’d be kidding ourselves if we don’t account of all the other pilots who aren’t truthful on their medicals or don’t seek medical care that they need all in the spirit of not losing their medicals.
There is need for real reform in the arena of FAA medicals
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I don't have any pity for pilots who don't answer the questions honestly.
But the FAA presents a special kind of stupid when they have a year-long backlog for SI's and think this is the best use of their time/resources.
But the FAA presents a special kind of stupid when they have a year-long backlog for SI's and think this is the best use of their time/resources.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
I'm not going to defend the FAA but understand that with 70% more flights, 85% more pilots and an appropriation which is static (as compared to pre-pandemic), it's only going to get worse. The agency is at 70% staffing for medical officers. The pays....sucks. This is directly a result of "oh you need also to do this.....and that also , without funding, e.g the "unfunded mandates" which our leadership sees "fit to impose". The thinking on Capital Hill, is apparently, "you have no airline transport accidents, so you don't need any further funding.
I agree that they have to be "provider of the service" in order to ask for more. This is going to be a particularly difficult year.
I agree that they have to be "provider of the service" in order to ask for more. This is going to be a particularly difficult year.
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Jeff Oslick
Final Approach
ATC is at 70% staffing too. It doesn't take 8 months to get an IFR clearance.
The pay sucks because the work they are doing is "public health", not medical services. They aren't in a position where they are making actual medical decisions. They chose employment that protects them nearly fully from liability for their decisions; the decisions they make are administrative, not medical. The pay is commensurate with what the job actually does.
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
Consequently you don’t get the highest quality personnel, either. Brain surgeons are making big bucks doing brain surgery, not doing low-pay jobs as civil service bureaucrats.
IMHO, the job is more like the "doctors" that prescribe MJ cards or ED meds over the internet. Making diagnoses without examining a patient is sketchy. Especially when they are overruling a real doctor that is treating a patient.
Not surprising. I passed my 3rd for years with profound hearing loss on the right side. They never noticed. When I finally got hearing aids, they noticed and gave me the silly "must use amplification." I probably still could pass the medical without them, the hearing on the left is diminished but not to the point I'd not hear the doctor mumbling behind my back or hiding behind his computer screen.
callsign_darko
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callsign_darko
Hello bbchien. I've read a lot of these posts and everyone appears to agree you're the person who can answer difficult questions. Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but it is 'related' in a way. I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure how it's supposed to work.You are one of the 6,000.
Comply! they have the power (and right now, the program too) to make a class 4 felony "stick". That'll be an unfit end to national service....
As of this point once an investigation is underway they will refuse the surrender of your certificate.
THIS IS WHY YOU NEVER OMIT to the FAA.
WhatEVER were you thinkin? Now this is fundamentally a legal battle. It won't help you in this matter, even if you go out and get a favorable HIMS psychiatry evaluation. The docs are sidelined by FAA legal until this is resolved.
So I'm in a somewhat similar boat, OEF 10 Army Vet, 100% Service Connected for PTSD, except I just started training for PPL and (very fortunately), my CFI gave me a heads up about the class 3 med process. I thought a simple physical would be a walk in the park, but now that I've been reading, I'm pretty worried. Not about anything going on today, but about the long gone past.
Considering the circumstances of combat vets, and the severe and somewhat ambiguous FAA rules for mental health-related issues, it appears to be virtually Orwellian. I've lived a fairly typical life for nearly a decade, but those first few years out of the Army can't be easy for any combat veteran. It takes time to adjust (roughly ~3 years for me), but now I'm almost regretting asking the VA for help.
Not to turn this into a life story but, needless to say, I had a very difficult time adjusting to civilian life, but that was almost 10 years ago. Now, the fact I have to disclose my VA history to the FAA feels like dumping the proverbial skeletons out of a closet. I mean, there should be no concern. It was a few rough years as far as I've been concerned since, but because I sought assistance from the VA, I could be grounded for meds they gave me back then, the conjecture of 20-minute doc visits, or even being misquoted in a random progress note for all I know, etc. etc.
Needless to say, I'm kind of terrified reading these posts. I'm not going to lie to them. They'll know about the PTSD diagnosis regardless. I'm just worried about them disregarding my health, and focusing on that diagnosis and treatment alone.
I guess my questions are pretty simple, what are my odds you think? ('ballpark'/similar circumstances maybe?)? Is it like they're trying to disqualify people? I can't see any justification to claim I cannot fly safely, but going into those medical records, a bureaucrat could potentially argue otherwise. I was very honest with the docs back then, and I'm hoping that doesn't wind up crushing my dreams today. (the potential for that to happen so easily btw, feels almost hard to believe. Almost like it's senselessly cruel and only for the sake of bureaucracy itself)
Are there any tips to get through this? My overall long-term goal is CFI, so I'm hoping I don't have to settle for Sport. I thought my biggest concern would be dedicating much of my savings. I had no idea how extremely 'technical' they would make what should be a simple safety physical to fly small airplanes.
Any help would be appreciated. I mean, hell or high water I plan to do whatever I can to see this through. Ironically, I joined the military to pursue my lifelong dream of becoming an aviator. I didn't count on 'the baggage' becoming part of a permanent record. On top of having resolved it all in the first place. Again, years ago now. Maybe I shouldn't be worried? Perhaps? I didn't even consider medical being an issue at all until I started reading about it. Maybe it isn't?
Is there such a thing as a reasonable bureaucrat within 'the FAA Medical Apparatus'? lol. Sincerely, I sure do hope so. I've read that many of them may be veterans themselves, so maybe they'll be able to relate and understand the circumstances. The posts aren't all 'doom and gloom'. I've come across some encouraging ones. So that's good. I still have time to figure this out before Solo anyway. So that's good.
Anyway, I thank you for your time. Any help, advice, opinion, or perspective would be highly appreciated.
A person with a Sport Pilot certificate can still become a CFI-Sport. You could still train students to get their PPL with some caveats.
The following explains the process of how this can be done.
61.109(l)
Currently, a Sport Pilot is limited to the aircraft they can fly. However, with MOSIAC the type of aircraft that a Sport Pilot can fly will change. Hopefully, by the end of 2024, the ruling will be finalized.
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
Also, I believe a CFI-Sport can give flight reviews to PPs.
I
in limbo
Guest
You'll have some hoops to jump through. I'm in the process now. It's been a few years of psychiatric evals, neuropsychological exams, etc. All reports are favorable but still no decision. Building the team to work on your behalf is very important. Bruce is one of the best. It can be done but you need to be persistent and have lots of patience. DO NOT do anything without first consulting your AME. DO NOT SUBMIT ANYTHING TO THE FAA except through your AME after they review it. Be prepared for a process that will not be cheap.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
callsign_darko: If you have such an award, the FAA's view is that it needs "current evaluation". You can't ever fairly get that from the VAH becuase their mission is to "find disease, award and treat".
So you need a HIMS (FAA vetted) psychiatrist. Trouble with that is the FAA has made the HIMS pscyhiatrist list nearly classified. Because in the day when it wasn't (15 years now), pilots used to "Shop an opinion" ("Tell me it's not so!"). So the FAA gave the list to the HIMS AMEs and dismisses anyone who make the list public....and HIMS psychiatrists who advertise they are on the HILS list.
So you need to get to a HIMS AME office, NOT for a flight phyiscal but to hire him to do an inital evaluation, determine what the certification issues are, do the drudge work of helping you get your file together, and then and only then sending yo to the HIMS psychiatrist.
Now these latter guys aren't cheap. Think about it: the sez, "you're okay" and you go out and have problem. Who's in the defendants' box?
So you need a HIMS (FAA vetted) psychiatrist. Trouble with that is the FAA has made the HIMS pscyhiatrist list nearly classified. Because in the day when it wasn't (15 years now), pilots used to "Shop an opinion" ("Tell me it's not so!"). So the FAA gave the list to the HIMS AMEs and dismisses anyone who make the list public....and HIMS psychiatrists who advertise they are on the HILS list.
So you need to get to a HIMS AME office, NOT for a flight phyiscal but to hire him to do an inital evaluation, determine what the certification issues are, do the drudge work of helping you get your file together, and then and only then sending yo to the HIMS psychiatrist.
Now these latter guys aren't cheap. Think about it: the sez, "you're okay" and you go out and have problem. Who's in the defendants' box?
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Is an initial evaluation equal to a consultation?
If so, according to your statement above. Would a person be able to see a HIMS psychiatrist before having to go for the actual flight physical and getting deferred?
callsign_darko
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callsign_darko
Thank you for the response. Could you please help clarify some of the acronyms? Particularly, 'VAH' and 'HILS list'.
I also had a more specific question. Do these evaluators typically sift through old medical records? Or, are they more interested in the current evaluation itself?/ Multiple evaluations (Psych and AME)? I noticed on the PTSD 'decision checklist' that they're specifically asking yes/no questions going back 2 years. I could easily answer No to all 5-6 questions with supporting VA medical records going back several years (if they even require them).
It's my medical records going back to 2012-2014 (9 years ago) that I'm concerned about. The VA's initial 'diagnosis troubleshooting and guesswork' days, which I'm sure is a fairly routine thing for veterans to go through. Because of the potential for veterans to file a compensation claim, the VA tries to avoid diagnosing PTSD like the plague, and I don't necessarily blame them for that
Their compensation system is clogged with 'that undocumented car wreck on base in the 1980s' sorts of claims (TV Lawyer/'questionable' sorts of stuff). So some level of discretion is definitely warranted, but it's still pretty silly 'diagnosing' the symptoms of PTSD for combat veterans as 'Depression' and the like. Only to throw meds at the problems, but VA Policy is typically 'blanket policy' and applies to everyone regardless.
I remember the nursing staff even being surprisingly candid about their opinions, but there was still little they could do until enough of the chart was 'built out'. To 'justify' a diagnosis that was obvious from the get-go. (Ironically, by the time they finally did do that in my case (it took almost 3 years), I was already working again and had no need for routine doc visits. I think just staying busy was ultimately the trick, looking back on it now, btw)
I'm worried that all that haphazard 'diagnosing through a straw' could come back to haunt me with this class 3 medical business. Each PTSD symptom having it's own 'diagnosis' could look pretty awful without any context/familiarity with how the VA works. Even with it being so long ago. Considering what I've read here.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
(1) it depends
(2) yes
(2) yes
callsign_darko
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callsign_darko
I am sooo hoping I can avoid that somehow. It seems so needless and senseless. I can appreciate the need for safety standards, but from what I've read, this stuff sounds downright ruthless. Especially against veterans who (supposedly) 'did the right thing' and sought assistance adjusting/reintegrating successfully. Even with it many years behind them. Still, I digress.
I'm willing to do whatever I have to. It's the timetable that bothers me. Considering, in most cases, this can probably be fairly described as a bureaucratic chore (just having to sort everything out and make sure we're good to fly), the fact it can take so long is just unacceptable. Or, it definitely should be unacceptable anyway.
Out of curiosity, are you still able to fly in some capacity while this is being worked out? I've considered just training for the time being, while I look into this further and prepare everything. Even though I cannot solo until this is sorted out. It's not a great compromise, but at least I can fly with an instructor. Getting to do some of what I love doing. I'm not sure how long that can last though. Before a CFI starts mandating that certificate.
Idk, but I do plan on making the best of it however I must. I have no plans to quit because it's difficult, frustrating, or expensive. If, God forbid, my dreams are crushed, it isn't going to be because I gave up on myself.
I'm glad to see so many others share a similar philosophy, btw.
I
in limbo
Guest
The FAA portal says I must abide by 14 CFR § 61.53. Operation of aircraft is prohibited at any time new symptoms or adverse changes occur in your health status. I'm choosing not to do anything until I get an answer so I don't sink a bunch of money into training that I wouldn't ever be able to use. I'm trying to get a Class 1 so GI Bill would eventually help pay for it though. I can't stress enough that you need to build a good team that has your back and is willing to fight for you. It takes work on your behalf and you have to show them you are medically qualified. You'll never be able to prove it to the FAA except through your records and reports for your team of doctors. Most of us don't really fall under a traditional HIMS route because we don't have airlines with chief pilots backing us. Best of luck! Keep us posted.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
The regs require medical qualification in order to act as a required pilot crewmember. Since you wouldn't have that, the CFI would be acting as PIC, and while doing so, he or she can allow you to operate the controls of an aircraft that only requires one pilot. I think most CFIs would not turn down your business.
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bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
callsign_darko said:
In FAA psychiatry their view is it about the sum total of a human's behavior. So yes the HIMS psychiatrists will not see you without your
mil svc medical record
VAH medical record
Any FAA medical record whcih cannot have been through your custody
ANY private medical records
And that is what is gathered and "collated/read" by the HIMS AME and packaged to the HIMS pscyhitrist
...and then the FAA has zero temeline for review. on my worst case I had to do TWO further flight phyiscals they took so long, to keep the file alive (we won certification!). See commentary about a week ago in this string, as to FAA's "current funding pickle".
What have you seen as far as timeline for start to finish on these VA Cases? I'm one of the lucky 6000 and have been working on this for over a year now and complying with all the FAA requests. Retired Marine with a Distinguished Flying Cross, did get that for just siting in the FOB. Just like darko said its been a long time for me as well and the VA has helped me process a few things and continue to me a productive citizen. I have an attorney and a HIMS AME working for me but seems like they have their hands tied as well.
I actually just wrote a letter to my Senator for help with the process. I don't have a problem with going through the hoops, its the long wait time I have a problem with. I feel like the FAA is holding pilots careers hostage unfairly. Tell us what we need to do and lets move forward with this. AME are the FAA medical representation and they are being second guessed the FAA.
I'll provide an update as I progress through the process. For now I encourage pilots to address the long wait times with their State Representatives just maybe we can help the FAA hire the personnel they need to shorten wait times and get pilots back in the air.
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
Bruce, I'm interested in your opinion. If the FAA revised the CACI list to allow AMEs to issue 3rd class medicals for all the same conditions for which any physician can approve Basic Med, would that make a noticeable dent in the backlog?
It seems silly to me that you, as a physician, can approve Basic Med for a person with diabetes (for example), but for a 3rd class you have to defer that same person to OKC and spin the medical roulette wheel.
The FAA appropriation pre-pandemic (2019) was 16.1B, now 19.8B not counting the 5B advance appropriation from the infrastructure bill.
There were 664K pilots in 2019 and 691,691 in 2022 (the latest year I can find). Additionally there are actually 80,000 less pilots for Med with BasicMed. I can't find a citation showing 85% more pilots.
I don't have a reference for the "unfunded mandates" It would be interesting to see a list. We should get to see the re-authorization bill soon, maybe next week. Maybe it'll be in there, should be fun.
It seems like they are doing less with more.
There were 664K pilots in 2019 and 691,691 in 2022 (the latest year I can find). Additionally there are actually 80,000 less pilots for Med with BasicMed. I can't find a citation showing 85% more pilots.
I don't have a reference for the "unfunded mandates" It would be interesting to see a list. We should get to see the re-authorization bill soon, maybe next week. Maybe it'll be in there, should be fun.
It seems like they are doing less with more.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
This is opinion, only:
Faced with the new speaker's commentary: we have not had an air transport fatality in ten years... "so do not expect any increase in funding", the agency is in sort of a panic. They did not replace the senoir evlauator who just retired. They took is salary steream and instead hired a consultant as to how the agency might function by 2028.
USNavy translation: The ship is is diffictuly, so we will take a guy ouf of the engine room and replace him with a consultant on the bridge, to the admiral.
I have encountered this consultant. Nice guy, but new ideas? The job, when posted was qual'd so narrowly that it could only have been a guy on the inside. And so it is. Ducks hire ducks to defend ducks (credit: Lloyd Austin). It's the American way. And that is why the bureaucracy reports to the Congress.
It's going to be an very interesting 4 years. I think the agency does have to surrender the resources to air tranport - I mean they don't even have enough people to inspect Boeing (And they have to delegate the rest).
The one and only GM car I ever owned had a weird rattle. It turned out to be an empty beer bottle in the door. This may be what is going on a Boeing? That is clearly, a higher priority.....
Faced with the new speaker's commentary: we have not had an air transport fatality in ten years... "so do not expect any increase in funding", the agency is in sort of a panic. They did not replace the senoir evlauator who just retired. They took is salary steream and instead hired a consultant as to how the agency might function by 2028.
USNavy translation: The ship is is diffictuly, so we will take a guy ouf of the engine room and replace him with a consultant on the bridge, to the admiral.
I have encountered this consultant. Nice guy, but new ideas? The job, when posted was qual'd so narrowly that it could only have been a guy on the inside. And so it is. Ducks hire ducks to defend ducks (credit: Lloyd Austin). It's the American way. And that is why the bureaucracy reports to the Congress.
It's going to be an very interesting 4 years. I think the agency does have to surrender the resources to air tranport - I mean they don't even have enough people to inspect Boeing (And they have to delegate the rest).
The one and only GM car I ever owned had a weird rattle. It turned out to be an empty beer bottle in the door. This may be what is going on a Boeing? That is clearly, a higher priority.....