Tell me it gets better

bflynn

bflynn

Final Approach
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Brian Flynn
A little frustrated with inconsistency in my instrument flying right now. I’ve got around 25 hours simulated and actual and at times it’s all I can do to maintain course and altitude, sometimes not even that. If I look away for a second, I’m 20 degrees off course - how am i supposed to do more? Other days I’m spot on, but still challenging to simply change a frequency on the radio.

it eventually gets better, right?
 
bflynn said:
A little frustrated with inconsistency in my instrument flying right now. I’ve got around 25 hours simulated and actual and at times it’s all I can do to maintain course and altitude, sometimes not even that. If I look away for a second, I’m 20 degrees off course - how am i supposed to do more? Other days I’m spot on, but still challenging to simply change a frequency on the radio.

it eventually gets better, right?
Click to expand...

yes. It does. Honestly. And it happens rather suddenly, too, from my experience.
 
bflynn said:
A little frustrated with inconsistency in my instrument flying right now. I’ve got around 25 hours simulated and actual and at times it’s all I can do to maintain course and altitude, sometimes not even that. If I look away for a second, I’m 20 degrees off course - how am i supposed to do more? Other days I’m spot on, but still challenging to simply change a frequency on the radio.

it eventually gets better, right?
Click to expand...
Are you finding that more in the sim, or do you have the same problem in the plane?
I had that problem in the sim all the time. Fine tuning trim helps quite a bit in actual flight.
But yeah, in the beginning that happened to me too, and as @Rgbeard said, it seems to come together pretty suddenly. It was sort of like backing up a trailer. I had a lot of problems learning that at first, but then one day, it just happened as if it were natural.
 
It gets better.

If it came naturally there wouldn't be so many VFR into IMC fatalities, and the instrument rating wouldn't be what many consider to be the most challenging rating.
 
How well is your plane trimmed? Try flying hands off in VFR on a smooth day and see how well it tracks. I had a turn in mine that made holding heading challenging. Rudder trim helped in the short term, getting it rigged right helped to fix it more permanently.
 
Hang 4 said:
How well is your plane trimmed? Try flying hands off in VFR on a smooth day and see how well it tracks. I had a turn in mine that made holding heading challenging. Rudder trim helped in the short term, getting it rigged right helped to fix it more permanently.
Click to expand...

Yep. Exactly what I was going to say. In the Comanche it is hard to keep it from wanting to roll unless the tanks get switched every five minutes. So when it's time to engage in buttonology, it's much quicker of a scan back to the instruments while pushing buttons. In the vertical, no problem, but with tip tanks hanging 18 feet off centerline and uneven fuel draw, heading is a bit more challenging.
 
bflynn said:
...If I look away for a second...
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For me, making sure I was truly only looking away for a second helped a lot. I would want to, for example, add a way point to a route in one shot. To break me of the habit, my instructor would have me count in my head "one one thousand". If whatever I looked away for wasn't complete, it was back to the instruments until I could spare another second.
 
JOhnH said:
Are you finding that more in the sim, or do you have the same problem in the plane?
I had that problem in the sim all the time. Fine tuning trim helps quite a bit in actual flight.
But yeah, in the beginning that happened to me too, and as @Rgbeard said, it seems to come together pretty suddenly. It was sort of like backing up a trailer. I had a lot of problems learning that at first, but then one day, it just happened as if it were natural.
Click to expand...

Only one non-certified sim session and it's worse there. Trimming out the sim is horrible and I'm convinced x-plane greatly exaggerates the phugoid oscillations.

I'm usually trimmed pretty well in that we're not going more than about 100' off altitude, still not perfect with it because there's a little play in the yoke. From perfect trim, it could be forward and we'll go down at 50 fpm or go aft and we go up. But from a course standpoint, if there's any turbulence at all, I can't do more than fly the plane with no time to even think through the next step.

I don't think I'm stressed by actual, but those seem to be the worst days, maybe because there has always been a little turbulence.

I'll keep going. Hopefully it comes in soon. Once the wife's new kitchen is paid for, I should be able to go back to 2-3 times a week rather than once.
 
Hang 4 said:
How well is your plane trimmed? Try flying hands off in VFR on a smooth day and see how well it tracks. I had a turn in mine that made holding heading challenging. Rudder trim helped in the short term, getting it rigged right helped to fix it more permanently.
Click to expand...

I suspect rudder trim might be a problem, or I'm just unconsciously leaning one way. I'll check it out on a calm vfr day and see. I've settle on one of the five aircraft, maybe I just picked the one that is already trimmed left and I'm thinking it's me.
 
bflynn said:
A little frustrated with inconsistency in my instrument flying right now. I’ve got around 25 hours simulated and actual and at times it’s all I can do to maintain course and altitude, sometimes not even that. If I look away for a second, I’m 20 degrees off course - how am i supposed to do more? Other days I’m spot on, but still challenging to simply change a frequency on the radio.

it eventually gets better, right?
Click to expand...
Does it always seem to be in the same direction?
 
Scan. Gyro nose, gyro wing, gyro nose, gyro wing, gyro performance, gyro other… lather rinse repeat.

You only get to play with your radio during the “other”. If you don’t get done doing whatever task during its “timeframe@, move on and come back to it to finish. GOTTA keep the scan going. It’s priority ONE.

Your fingers can play with the radio knobs while you continue the scan… and verify how they did when ya come back around to “other”, but the eyes keep the scan going, PERIOD.

Eventually you just assimilate the info from your flight instruments.

You used to gage your position within your lane on the road with a checkpoint on the hood of your car…
 
What airplane are you using for your (OP) training?
 
It gets better. I think I had a similar problem and post a few years back. There were a few ideas my instructor used until one of them clicked.

Outside of the approach, it was my scan, so I focused on that with my toy sim (MS Flight Simulator).

I also took my hands off the yoke or lightened it severely when I messed with radios or charts or checklist, which helped.

On an approach, counter intuitively, my CFI had me NOT finesse my corrective movements. Instead of flying by nuance and feel like I used to do, he wanted me to put in a bit more aggressive movements to tell the plane what to do NOW. If I get off 5 degrees, put in the input I need less gingerly than what I was used to and only for a short moment, then take that input out just as abruptly. It worked for me.

It’ll come soon. Stick with it. Everyone told me one day it’ll just click. It sure seemed like it never would. It did.

(And to add to the above posts - one click of a radio, one scan, one click, one scan. Slow your activity away from the instruments - frequency change might need to occur over a 15 second period - one knob turn per scan; maybe a bit silly, but you get the idea).
 
Airplane is a warrior II, PA28-161, the club has five of them. There's a chance the rudder trim is off, I'll check tomorrow. I just looked and saw that my future schedule changes to another plane after tomorrow, I think this is due for annual.

Usually using a light grip, frequently not even holding the yoke, just nudging it from the bottom. Might be grabbing at times, I'll monitor for it.
 
I did my IFR training a long time ago, some of it in an ancient Frasca electromechanical simulator. These things were really unforgiving, with no null zones in the controls, and unstable to boot. You really had to develop that scan and keep on top of everything or the sim would be instantly deviating. In many ways, it forced vigilance and the skills developed sooner. I found the later computerized sims to be almost too easy.

upload_2023-6-2_11-11-51.jpeg
 
I vividly remember saying to my instructor, "I don't think I'm smart enough for this". I had something like 30 hours sim. imc at the time, and had just badly botched an arc.

At about 35 hours it was like a lightbulb went on. All of the sudden it was second nature. It was weird. Went to the checkride with 40.1 simulated, and the last couple hours were mostly just filling time and keeping me sharp until the day.

At 25 hours I'm betting you're at the point you will start seeing rapid improvements.
 
There is a point where it will click more and you start processing info more parallel then in series. Just takes time and reps. As stated before light grip. Thumb and two fingers. Pay attention you probably have a tendency turning left or right. You can anticipate that.
 
If you always turn off the same way, it could be the airplane, but it could be YOU. You may have built in leans. I do. I have to cock my head to the side to fly straight in level in IMC. I even do it in the sim. :D
 
Pinecone said:
If you always turn off the same way, it could be the airplane, but it could be YOU. You may have built in leans. I do. I have to cock my head to the side to fly straight in level in IMC. I even do it in the sim. :D
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I started having trouble when I got a kneeboard. For some reason it made me get light with my left foot. That’s the leg I wore it on. So I’d get uncoordinated and drift to the right from the heavier right foot.
 
luvflyin said:
I started having trouble when I got a kneeboard. For some reason it made me get light with my left foot. That’s the leg I wore it on. So I’d get uncoordinated and drift to the right from the heavier right foot.
Click to expand...
So you needed a kneeboard made out of 3/4" lead plate, maybe...
 
bflynn said:
I’ve got around 25 hours simulated and actual
Click to expand...
Hi.
That is NOT a lot of time IR requires precision flying and that takes a while to master.

bflynn said:
If I look away for a second, I’m 20 degrees off course - how am i supposed to do more?
Click to expand...
It sounds like some Fixation is going on, you will get over it.
Know your numbers.
Things to master, Scanning, get your instructor to tell / give you list of what instruments are primary for that particular phase, Level, Turns... and Scan only the instruments required for that maneuver, particular and immediate fix.
Prioritize, after you know what needs to be fixed first, fix One thing at the time.
Scan your VSI and Altimeter as One instrument always.

XPlane is Not a good indicator of your skills and or representing well real life flying, it can take forever to get stabilized, in level flight it may take up to 3 minutes to get completely stable and the control inputs are way too sensitive, none of the models, that I know, are correct. I know that LR thinks that they have a good flight dynamics model, but that is because they do not know any better. There are hundred of little things that can are incorrect that can cause a huge amount of frustration and bad habits that need to be unlearned. After you get to know real life flying, it's OK to use it to stay current.
 
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bflynn said:
I suspect rudder trim might be a problem, or I'm just unconsciously leaning one way. I'll check it out on a calm vfr day and see. I've settle on one of the five aircraft, maybe I just picked the one that is already trimmed left and I'm thinking it's me.
Click to expand...

I did not realize how much pressure my left hand, elbow resting on the armrest put on the yoke and resulted in roll input and subsequent heading excursions. That really drove home thumb and forefinger to control the yoke.
 
Jim K said:
At 25 hours I'm betting you're at the point you will start seeing rapid improvements.
Click to expand...

I'm patient, but it doesn't feel like I'm getting better yet. It definitely feels like I'm not smart enough to do this. It's a good thing I'm also stubborn.
 
It does get better. The key is to reduce the amount of brainpower required to maintain proper altitude and heading so that there is some capacity left to do other things, like planning, visualization, avionics setup, and communication. I seem to recall that at some point during training, it actually "clicked" suddenly. XC IFR is a lot more relaxed than the hectic training environment, with back to back approaches, misses, and vectoring.

What REALLY makes a difference for hand flying is flying by the numbers. That is, you should know and commit to memory the power (rpm) and attitude settings that will give you various standard flight regimes. For example, I know that in my plane 2200 rpm, 2 degrees nose up will result in level flight at 90 kt. A standard descent (approx. 500-600 fpm) at 90 kt is 1900 rpm and 1 degree nose down. This will track a standard LPV or ILS glide slope fairly well. I also know numbers for a Vy climb at max power, as well as level flight at a standard cruise setting, etc. Setting up for a flight regime is as simple as applying the appropriate rpm setting, putting the nose at the proper attitude, and trimming to the desired airspeed. Transitions to other flight regimes is then just a matter of applying the proper settings, with minimal intervention required to maintain that flight regime afterwards. A light touch on the yoke will prevent pilot-induced deviations.

Even a single-axis autopilot (wing leveler) is a godsend for creating more breathing room for consulting charts, copying re-routes, or setting up nav boxes. My STEC-20 was an investment well worth it for single-pilot IFR. But I trained and flew IFR prior to owning an AP. It's hard work to hand fly 3 hours coast-to-coast in solid IMC, even if you are current.
 
I can tell you it gets better, but I can’t tell you that you’ll get better. :)

Stick with it, it will click.
 
bflynn said:
A little frustrated with inconsistency in my instrument flying right now. I’ve got around 25 hours simulated and actual and at times it’s all I can do to maintain course and altitude, sometimes not even that. If I look away for a second, I’m 20 degrees off course - how am i supposed to do more? Other days I’m spot on, but still challenging to simply change a frequency on the radio.

it eventually gets better, right?
Click to expand...
It does!
 
So with you on this. My instructor will only fly on Saturdays. Weather, plane down for maintenance, schedule conflicts, or just life getting in the way I’ve been lucky to get training flights three times a month. Extremely difficult to fly consistently. Seems I’ll nail this aspect or approach but screw something different on different flights. No consistent errors. I’ve been endorsed to take the check ride, so it’s up to me I guess. Ready to just say, “take the check ride and if I don’t pass at least I know what I have to redo on the next check.” Feel like I’m remediating my way and don’t like the idea of taking the ride if I’m not sure I can pass, but I’m pretty much done with feeling like crap after every flight with my CFII. It’s damn discouraging I’m with you there…
 
bflynn said:
Trimming out the sim is horrible and I'm convinced x-plane greatly exaggerates the phugoid oscillations.
Click to expand...

One tip for trimming out in x-plane is to use the throttle in addition to the trim wheel. It seems the in-game trim wheel only has definite steps to it so you use the throttle as the fine tuning element.
 
Gladwell suggests that it takes 10,000 hours to master a skill. I'll wager it is less than 50 for you.
 
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