Small plane buzzes boaters in Colorado before crashing

Kenny Phillips said:
I typically don't do turns around a point that's 50 feet below me, as my airplane requires somewhat more space.
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Well, compared to "my elevator stuck, despite what those pictures show", isn't "turns around a point at low altitude" a tiny bit more plausible?

I wonder if they let those two see the pictures they were looking at while asking them about what happened? Those elevators looked pretty neutral to me, but it could just be the angle the picture was taken. Or the lighting. Or maybe the shutter speed/ISO? I know, the photographer must have run it through Photoshop!
 
At this point, even a "I thought I saw Elvis" defense would sound better.

I realize pilots do not enjoy a huge perception of intelligence, but I think the flying community's perceived intelligence took a hit with this being the best excuse they could come up with.
 
Pretty sure the elevator excuse was hatched before the existence of the pictures was known.
 
Dana said:
Nowadays, one must always assume there will be pictures.

I'm sure glad cellphone cameras didn't exist when I was younger...
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amen.
 
Years ago someone I met at a party was showing a sequence of still photos of an approach to their airport along a major river. I had flipped through about 2/3 of the stack and then had to back up and do it again. "Did we just fly under the bridge?"
 
Dry Creek said:
Wow, over ten thousand hours of experience between the two ATP Certified pilots and that's the best story they could come up with? The elevator, uhmmm, jammed. yeah, elevator jammed and we crashed.
I may only be a low-hour student pilot, but I smell a rat in that story. The best way to pitch the nose up I've found is to add flaps, and power to climb it with.

Anyway, it looks like the investigators didn't buy that line either:
Probable Cause and Findings:
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be: The pilot’s failure to maintain clearance from rising terrain while intentionally maneuvering the airplane at low altitudes, which resulted in substantial damage to the fuselage and both wings
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Adding flap is a really bad method of trying to pitch up and climb. Flap extension in most aircraft results in a nose down pitching moment. In addition the additional drag verses stall speed reduction means adding flap is only useful for a very short term increase in climb. Adding trailing edge flap also decreases the stalling AOA which offsets some of the lift increase.
 
Dana said:
Nowadays, one must always assume there will be pictures.

I'm sure glad cellphone cameras didn't exist when I was younger...
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I shudder to think it. Although it could have saved me once from being accused of and blamed for something I did not do.
 
Jeff767 said:
Adding flap is a really bad method of trying to pitch up and climb. Flap extension in most aircraft results in a nose down pitching moment. In addition the additional drag verses stall speed reduction means adding flap is only useful for a very short term increase in climb. Adding trailing edge flap also decreases the stalling AOA which offsets some of the lift increase.
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Would that depend on the plane and the amount of flap extension? IIRC, some of the small Cessnas benefit from 10° flaps. There isn't much drag increase compared to the increase in lift. The POH should have the definitive answer for a particular plane.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Would that depend on the plane and the amount of flap extension? IIRC, some of the small Cessnas benefit from 10° flaps. There isn't much drag increase compared to the increase in lift. The POH should have the definitive answer for a particular plane.
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Yes. The C-172's used at the flight school I am training at will pitch up as you roll in flaps. I then counter with a little nose-down trim to take the pressure off and help out in the event a go-around is called for. In some instances low degree of flaps are called "climb flaps" and used for short field takeoff or when extra lift is needed at slow speeds - such as turning out of a narrowing canyon with rising terrain (canyon turn).
 
Dry Creek said:
Yes. The C-172's used at the flight school I am training at will pitch up as you roll in flaps. I then counter with a little nose-down trim to take the pressure off and help out in the event a go-around is called for. In some instances low degree of flaps are called "climb flaps" and used for short field takeoff or when extra lift is needed at slow speeds - such as turning out of a narrowing canyon with rising terrain (canyon turn).
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I teach in Cessna 172s, a 152 and a 150. In each airplane, when the first ten degrees of flaps is added, it will pitch up. However, I do not recommend trimming the nose down. Instead, control the pitch with a bit of forward pressure. Remember, these airplanes will always return to whatever speed they were trimmed for, and usually the flaps are extended in the pattern when you want to slow down. So, instead of trimming the nose down, I recommend a little nose up trim for the slower airspeed.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
I teach in Cessna 172s, a 152 and a 150. In each airplane, when the first ten degrees of flaps is added, it will pitch up. However, I do not recommend trimming the nose down. Instead, control the pitch with a bit of forward pressure. Remember, these airplanes will always return to whatever speed they were trimmed for, and usually the flaps are extended in the pattern when you want to slow down. So, instead of trimming the nose down, I recommend a little nose up trim for the slower airspeed.
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Flaps will alter the airflow around the tail. The full-flap neutral flap setting at approach speed is significantly more nose-down than the no-flap trim setting. This is a misapplication of the "trim for airspeed" idea.
 
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