50 NM Cross Country?

I’m surprised no one has discussed whether taking off from an aircraft carrier, orbiting overhead the boat for two hours and then trapping back on the deck constitutes a cross country flight.
 
Yes we did… and decided if in international waters, you’re not in a COUNTRY, so how can it count?

Obviously if the boat circles and you land close to where you took off, doesn’t count!

This is some rabbit hole!
 
I will offer up on "why go 51 miles when you can gon151 miles?"

Used to be money. When I first was flying. I saw the argument that the longer xc probably costs a little less than 3 shorter xc BUT - (1) I've always paid real time for training (actual cash in the 1990s when I was in hs/college working to pay for lessons) so sitting a month to fly 1 long xc wasn't as motivating or productive for maintaining currency as three 51 mile xc in that same month.

Now - it's time. Demanding job and 3 kids in sports I don't have 4-5 hrs to go fly. Similar to what I hear most say about golf. Who has time.

If you're headed to the airlines, or saved up all the money up front and are rushing to get through those hours I get it. If you own your own business/are wealthy and have a flexible schedule - I get it.

The average upper middle income stiff working 60-80 hrs a week with active kids . . . Not so easy.
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
The average upper middle income stiff working 60-80 hrs a week with active kids . . . Not so easy.
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That is indeed a challenge. Even with no kidlings and my professional career tapering down, finding the time to fly is hard. I flew about over 75 hours last year and hope to fly more in retirement.

Still, once you're at the airport and the plane going for a longer cross-country is hardly where you save time. For me it's 40 minutes to the airport, 15 or so to preflight and haul the plane out. Start, taxi and ready to go 10 ish minutes (unless I have to wait for people like the RV driver yesterday to fly a B-52 sized pattern) and off I go.
 
GaryM said:
Now suppose Rutan and Yeager had landed at an airport 30 miles short of their departure airport. Would that not be a cross country because they were within 50 straight-line miles of the departure point? :)
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Remember the 50 mile rule applies to qualifications for a rating. As certified pilots, anytime you land at a different airport can be logged as cross-country.
 
Pugs said:
I flew about over 75 hours last year and hope to fly more in retirement.
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Good luck. I had the same hope, but so far it's not working out very well. Between aging parent issues, home projects, and all the extra volunteer work I got recruited for, I think I have less free time now than when I was working.
 
Brad Z said:
I’m surprised no one has discussed whether taking off from an aircraft carrier, orbiting overhead the boat for two hours and then trapping back on the deck constitutes a cross country flight.
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Depends on how fast the ship is steaming, doesn't it? I can't say a number, but I can say from experience that when they go full steam, our carriers are amazingly fast.
 
Tools said:
What if my airport moved a straight line distance of more than 50 miles (and then hid in a fog bank…) while I was gone flying? For six months that happened a lot.

I understand this is different than when my parents moved while I was in college and I didn’t get a forwarding address… ackward.
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Were you based on a "small island" at the time? See 61.111.
 
Half Fast said:
Good luck. I had the same hope, but so far it's not working out very well. Between aging parent issues, home projects, and all the extra volunteer work I got recruited for, I think I have less free time now than when I was working.
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That seems to be typical from what I hear. We'll be moving to NH though so while i have no need to visit some our local airports here, I'll have a whole new aviation world to explore. $200 Lobster roll run anyone? :D
 
It’s a nuke… water water water steeeeeeel, smash grab roar. Hardly short field! Ha!

Pugs, spensive lobster roll sounds good!
 
For years I only few gliders. I did a lot of soaring competitions and "cross country" flying. In most cases a day's contest or cross country flight was supposed to start and end at the same point. That was the idea. If one landed "out" (farm field, other airport) it was kind of a failure. Fast forward to when I was working on my airplane instrument rating and needed those 50 cross country hours. The "successful" flights, some over 300 miles, didn't count, but where I had landed out (failed to complete the flight as planned) over 50 nm from the take off point (really failed), they did. Seemed unfair, but that's the reg.
 
Brad Z said:
I’m surprised no one has discussed whether taking off from an aircraft carrier, orbiting overhead the boat for two hours and then trapping back on the deck constitutes a cross country flight.
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what if the carrier crossed time zones in an hour.....you could log xc but 0.0 hours worth.....
 
I’m a golden shellback… crossed equator AND intl date line at the same time… better check my logbook.

Tools, who has eaten a cherry out of the belly button of a very fat man… been needing to get that off my chest (and into YOUR consciousness) for a very long time.
 
Quick question... if you fly to 3 different airports and only one of the legs are greater than 50 mi is that considered a XC for IFR training?

Example BKV-OCF-x60-BKV .. only the x60 to BKV is >50 mi.
 
francisco collazos said:
Quick question... if you fly to 3 different airports and only one of the legs are greater than 50 mi is that considered a XC for IFR training?

Example BKV-OCF-x60-BKV .. only the x60 to BKV is >50 mi.
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Does it “[include]a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure”?
 
eman1200 said:
what if the carrier crossed time zones in an hour.....you could log xc but 0.0 hours worth.....
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Time zone, schmime zone. Think big. International date line.
 
So if you make a 1 hour flight but you cross the international date line and go back a day, do you log +1 hour or -23 hours?
 
Brad Z said:
I’m surprised no one has discussed whether taking off from an aircraft carrier, orbiting overhead the boat for two hours and then trapping back on the deck constitutes a cross country flight.
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Depends if the airfield moved >50NM in the intervening period.
 
francisco collazos said:
Quick question... if you fly to 3 different airports and only one of the legs are greater than 50 mi is that considered a XC for IFR training?

Example BKV-OCF-x60-BKV .. only the x60 to BKV is >50 mi.
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So long as one point of landing is more than 50 nm from the starting point, you can land 50 times, once every nm if you want.

unless it's one of the "special" cross countries like the "long" student solo cross country which specifies "one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations" (see how cleverly the FAA actually tells you when they want a certain leg length?)
 
Half Fast said:
So if you make a 1 hour flight but you cross the international date line and go back a day, do you log +1 hour or -23 hours?
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If you cross it the wrong direction you have to deduct 23 hours from your logbook.
 
midlifeflyer said:
So long as one point of landing is more than 50 nm from the starting point, you can land 50 times, once every nm if you want.

unless it's one of the "special" cross countries like the "long" student solo cross country which specifies "one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations" (see how cleverly the FAA actually tells you when they want a certain leg length?)
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Ok thank you. I wasn't sure for instrument xc purposes and just wanted to check.
 
francisco collazos said:
Ok thank you. I wasn't sure for instrument xc purposes and just wanted to check.
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If you are talking about the 50 hours cross country PIC, yes it's just the usual
61.1(b)(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under § 61.101(c), time acquired during a flight--
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.​

Compared to some of the procedural rules and other things you need to learn for the instrument rating, reading the cross country definitions in 61.1 is pretty easy.
 
midlifeflyer said:
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure
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Hmmmm..... The above Rutan posts have caused me to think about this.

The reg says a straight-line distance, not the shortest possible straight-line distance. Every two locations on earth have two "straight-line" distances between them, the short route and the great circle route. (Of course, "straight" has to be taken with a little latitude, since there's really no such thing on a curved planet unless you bore through the ground.)

I'd love to hear a student making this argument to his CFI and DPE....
:D
 
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Half Fast said:
Hmmmm..... The above Rutan posts have caused me to think about this.

The reg says a straight-line distance, not the shortest possible straight-line distance. Every two locations on earth has two "straight-line" distances between them, the short route and the great circle route. (Of course, "straight" has to be taken with a little latitude, since there's really no such thing on a curved planet unless you bore through the ground.)

I'd love to hear a student making this argument to his CFI and DPE....
:D
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Pretty much my beef but in a less humourous way. Airport is straight line 45 miles away but if I fly it "straight" I would fly "straight" into the tower. Flying the correct approach puts it over 50 miles. It should count not a fan of the "straight line" rules :rolleyes:
 
All this griping about the distance. In the old days (yes, I am older), for your PPL, you had to do (I don't remember if it was one or two short ones) 3 leg XC where EACH LEG was a minimum of 50 NM. And a longer one, 3 legs, where each leg had to be a minimum of 100 NM. Commercial had a requirement for 3 legs with each leg being more than 200 NM.

Suck it up. :D
 
Garavar said:
Pretty much my beef but in a less humourous way. Airport is straight line 45 miles away but if I fly it "straight" I would fly "straight" into the tower. Flying the correct approach puts it over 50 miles. It should count not a fan of the "straight line" rules :rolleyes:
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Not hitting towers is part of the pilotage skill set that the FAA would like pilots to develop in the process of gaining aeronautical experience.
 
Garavar said:
Pretty much my beef but in a less humourous way. Airport is straight line 45 miles away but if I fly it "straight" I would fly "straight" into the tower. Flying the correct approach puts it over 50 miles. It should count not a fan of the "straight line" rules :rolleyes:
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What if the wind is from the other direction?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Yeah, I never quite figured out why people seem to hate flying so much that they strive for bare minimum.
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When I was learning to fly, I found XC boring but enjoyed pattern and airwork, so I strove to minimize the XC hours so I could use the time for what I enjoyed more.

Pugs said:
unless I have to wait for people like the RV driver yesterday to fly a B-52 sized pattern
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What, an RV flying a bomber pattern and not an overhead break???! :eek:
 
Dana said:
What, an RV flying a bomber pattern and not an overhead break???! :eek:
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The irony here is that the actual B-52 pattern is an overhead break.
 
Hmm, don’t ever recall seeing a B-52 do an overhead break. And I spent a number of months on a SAC base.
 
Pinecone said:
Hmm, don’t ever recall seeing a B-52 do an overhead break. And I spent a number of months on a SAC base.
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I flew into an event at Minot Air Force Base in 2018 and we got a little seminar on their air traffic and what we can expect to see, kind of a live-action version of those publications that they give for parts of the country with nearby bases. For example, Sioux Falls, SD, pilots are probably used to seeing a pamphlet describing the simulated flameout (SFO) traffic pattern that the Air National Guard F-16s fly there. Anyhow, the B-52 pilots explained that they do (at least on occasion) return to base in formation and fly an overhead break. Granted, their overhead break is probably a hair wider than an RV-4 guy flies. :)
 
Not saying that they don't. Just saying I have not seen it.

And yes, it would be a BIT wider.
 
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