Crossing The Appalachians

Kitch

Kitch

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Kitch
Planning our next big XC PYM-HUT departing next Monday. Since I'm VFR only we may have to head south to VA before heading west across KY depending on WX. Question is how much of an "event" will it be to cross the "mountains" (don't you western pilots be making fun of our mountains) going from OKV-LOZ ?

The extent of my high terrain experience is flying through PA when we flew to BBG in September. I know the terrain is a little higher and much more inhospitable further south.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
 
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Done it many times flying from Chicago to Greenville, SC. Usually a non-event. When the winds are blowing it can get a little sporting down low.
 
It really is a nothing-burger, just be aware of winds.
 
General rule of thumb is plan an altitude at least 2000ft over the highest terrain. Keep an eye on airmets and surface winds. If turb and/or surface winds greater than 20kts are predicted, add another 1000.
 
My VFR experience has been the southwest area of PA can been problematic with lower clouds coupled with higher terrain. Sometimes not enough space to fly between them.
 
Racerx said:
That 6' peak in between Chicago and Iowa doesn't really show up. What gives?
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On that subject, TIL that the highest point in IL is some stupid barely visible hill in the NW corner and not the actual hills in Southern IL:

 
In the aviation context, the problem is not the height of the hills we call mountains around here. It is the weather incompatible with VFR flight they like to generate. Widespread thunderstorms in the summer and fogged in valleys and mountain obscuration in the winter.
 
weilke said:
In the aviation context, the problem is not the height of the hills we call mountains around here. It is the weather incompatible with VFR flight they like to generate. Widespread thunderstorms in the summer and fogged in valleys and mountain obscuration in the winter.
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This, and in VFR on windy days there can be mountain wave downdrafts too strong for some aircraft to outclimb.
 
I cross the Green Mountains on a regular basis with a glider attached to the Pawnee, often in strong wind and mountain wave. More important than abundant altitude is that you approach the peak from the leeward side at an angle that permits you to dive back into the valley if you run into sink. If you can climb to a high altitude do it, but very often the cap clouds over a ridge make that impossible to do VFR.

There are quite a few airplanes resting on the leeward side of ridges when pilots thought they could outclimb the downward airflow, then frantically tried to turn around when it was too late.
 
I also looked at the direct route from PYM to HUT, which would take you along I 90 between the Adirondacks and the Catskills just west of Albany and would avoid any real mountainous terrain altogether.

I'm not sure why Virginia and Kentucky are involved in your flight plan. Can you elaborate? I must have something wrong.
 
Rgbeard said:
I’ll just leave this here…..

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Why you always gotta bust my crackers..... :)


dbahn said:
I also looked at the direct route from PYM to HUT, which would take you along I 90 between the Adirondacks and the Catskills just west of Albany and would avoid any real mountainous terrain altogether.

I'm not sure why Virginia and Kentucky are involved in your flight plan. Can you elaborate? I must have something wrong.
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I should have elaborated more in my OP this is just a 3rd option route if we need to get below the ohio valley to have VFR weather. My initial plan is PYM-IDI-HUF-COU-HUT

Just trying to have back up plans... don't want to drive LOL
 
As others have said, this time of year turbulence will be your biggest annoyance. I took a PnP flight when I was a newly minted pilot in my Grumman AA1. My route had me crossing the Shenandoah Valley mountains at like a 10 degree angle. That day sucked between getting my head bashed against the canopy and the severe up and down drafts. One minute I couldn't maintain altitude, the next minute I was nearing Vne trying to stay at my altitude.
 
Fwiw, there's a pretty good restaurant on the field at huf if you're looking for a lunch break
 
Kitch said:
Planning Monday morning departure from PYM
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Do you use windy.com? It can be very helpful in long range as well as short range planning for this type of trip. You can adjust the (orange) sliders for date and time as well as altitude to get an idea of wind along the route. You can also click on the different models on the lower right to see what the different models are forecasting.

Right now, it looks as if the winds at 5,000 feet next Monday are forecast to be parallel to the ridges, not perpendicular, so if that persists I would expect there to be less of a concern about crossing the ridges. (It still pays to be cautious when you can, but sometimes risk mitigation has to consider all sorts of other factors, including ceilings.)
 

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VFR only it'll likely be a huge deal. What Western types don't realize is Eastern mountains make a crapload of weather, and it can be very difficult to stay VFR going over them, especially this time of year. IFR it isn't a big deal at all, so long as there's no icing.
 
steingar said:
VFR only it'll likely be a huge deal. What Western types don't realize is Eastern mountains make a crapload of weather, and it can be very difficult to stay VFR going over them, especially this time of year. IFR it isn't a big deal at all, so long as there's no icing.
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Are you suggesting western mountains don't make a crapload of weather?

I've flown both and respect both.
 
steingar said:
VFR only it'll likely be a huge deal. What Western types don't realize is Eastern mountains make a crapload of weather, and it can be very difficult to stay VFR going over them, especially this time of year. IFR it isn't a big deal at all, so long as there's no icing.
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@Kitch, don’t listen to this. I have crossed the Appalachians more times than I can count, I’m sure far more than Michael has and it’s not a huge deal. It just requires a little planning, as does everything. Stay mindful of winds and the general area forecast and you’ll be fine.
 
If you fly below the peaks, the mountain effects are similar in the east or the west. But the biggest difference is density altitude. Any ordinary airplane can easily climb well above the peaks of the eastern mountains. If you are 2000 ft above the peaks, there isn't much to worry about.
 
RyanB said:
@Kitch, don’t listen to this. I have crossed the Appalachians more times than I can count, I’m sure far more than Michael has and it’s not a huge deal. It just requires a little planning, as does everything. Stay mindful of winds and the general area forecast and you’ll be fine.
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Of course it does. I flew in the Appalachians on my first solo cross country as a student pilot. Actually, all of my pre-private solos were in them. Even had to divert for weather on the "long" one. I was running later than expected and the mountain obscuration forecast for later showed up earlier than predicted.
 
All mountains make weather and smite airplanes out of the clouds. But, unlike the Rockies, the Appalachians peak out below 7,000 feet and you can go 2,000 feet higher than that without a turbo or oxygen tank. I haven't flown there, so I have to ask: Are there reasons you can't just go over the hills at 10,500 and treat the ground beneath you as if it were flat?
 
I've flown down the spine of the Appalachians many times. Usually it's not a big deal. However if the wind is whistling out of the west (as after the passage of a cold front) you can get beat up pretty good on the lee side of the mountains. If there is an easterly flow, moisture and clouds will build up on the windward side,creating widespread VFR-unfriendly conditions. There are stretches of the mountains where there isn't much in the way of landing options in an emergency. (I'm thinking of you, West Virginia.) Very beautiful, though. Just pay attention to weather and wind, and plan accordingly. Giving the peaks ample clearance will give you a better ride, as long as you can tolerate the headwind component.
 
iamtheari said:
All mountains make weather and smite airplanes out of the clouds. But, unlike the Rockies, the Appalachians peak out below 7,000 feet and you can go 2,000 feet higher than that without a turbo or oxygen tank. I haven't flown there, so I have to ask: Are there reasons you can't just go over the hills at 10,500 and treat the ground beneath you as if it were flat?
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clouds. sometimes.
 
Kitch said:
I should have elaborated more in my OP this is just a 3rd option route if we need to get below the ohio valley to have VFR weather. My initial plan is PYM-IDI-HUF-COU-HUT
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For this route, would 4500' be practical?

Kitch said:
Question is how much of an "event" will it be to cross the "mountains" (don't you western pilots be making fun of our mountains) going from OKV-LOZ ?
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If you are doing the OKV - LOZ route, what about going North or South such as OKV - MGW - LOZ or going South as OKV - ZEDPA - LOZ.
Does either deviation actually add more than 20 minutes flight time while giving you lower terrain to fly over which potentially gives more options?
 
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Fearless Tower said:
And headwinds. Not unusual to have 40-50 kt winds blowing from the west over the mountains at 10k.
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going over the mountains last year on my way to rough river....that was hands down the craziest ride I've ever had.


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KPYM KIDI KHUF KCOU KHUT …
For this route, would 4500' be practical?
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To remain 2,000 abv, especially when crossing Appalachians, 6,500 would be better.
(For example, consider MEF for quadrant 40nm east of KIDI, 3,200.)
Ref: VFR sectional chart

Aside from terrain, VFR routing considerations for airspace (PIT & STL class B) and weather.
 
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MikeNY said:
To remain 2,000 abv, especially when crossing Appalachians, 6,500 would be better.
(For example, consider MEF for quadrant 40nm east of KIDI, 3,200.)
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I have flown that that area as low as 3500' and felt quite comfortable with the clearance AGL. 4500' / 5500' in that area is my general default absent other considerations. The area around KUNV, I would not consider mountains and the majority of that area is uninhabited. Pretty easy VFR flying imho unless the clouds are dropping and squeezing you into the ground. In which case without IFR the best course is just land and wait it out.
 
iamtheari said:
All mountains make weather and smite airplanes out of the clouds. But, unlike the Rockies, the Appalachians peak out below 7,000 feet and you can go 2,000 feet higher than that without a turbo or oxygen tank. I haven't flown there, so I have to ask: Are there reasons you can't just go over the hills at 10,500 and treat the ground beneath you as if it were flat?
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If you have to attempt a forced landing you will quickly find out that the terrain is not flat and is densely covered with large trees.
 
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