1976 Cessna 340 FIKI Question?

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Probablyflying

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ProbablyFlying
Hey everyone,
Got a 340A question. We are looking to purchase this 1976 340A…. But it’s not FIKI approved. It has full de ice boots, hot props, and an alcohol windshield. The model was approved by the FAA starting in 1977 apparently. Has anyone seen or done some sort of field approval to get an aircraft FIKI certified? If so, how much of a headache is it? Thanks in advance!
 
Fully Insane Kamakazi Idiocy

I don’t know the answer to your question but that’s my definition of FIKI in light aircraft.
 
Salty said:
Fully Insane Kamakazi Idiocy

I don’t know the answer to your question but that’s my definition of FIKI in light aircraft.
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You have how much experience penetrating weather in capable light aircraft exactly?

To the OP - if there is not already an STC to make the aircraft FIKI then it will likely cost 7 to 8 figures, and years to create one. The path of least resistance to FIKI is selling your 340 and buying a FIKI one.
 
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Mtns2Skies said:
You have how much experience penetrating weather in capable light aircraft exactly?

To the OP - if there is not already an STC to make the aircraft FIKI then it will likely cost 7 to 8 figures, and years to create one. The path of least resistance to FIKI is selling your 340 and buying a FIKI one.
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I have all the experience I ever intend to get :D
 
At that point, it’s strictly a paperwork/legal thing. Nothing to do with functionality.

Given that it’s the same level of safety, how much is that paperwork worth? If you’re running 135, probably worth it. Part 91? Probably not. That’s my 2 cents. Either way, you need to avoid ice.
 
I do not think it is possible. FIKI ones have boots between the engines and fuselage plus a hot plate on the windshield.
 
Probablyflying said:
Has anyone seen or done some sort of field approval to get an aircraft FIKI certified?
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My info may be dated, but there are several deicing equipment differences between your aircraft and a factory FIKI cert aircraft. I also believe this was only a factory installed option and would probably require an STC level approval vs a field approval.
 
Does your opinion change on a turbine? On a jet?
 
Info from an article early this year. From a well-known Twin Cessna mechanic.

"The first hurdle in FIKI is the certi-
fication. Normally, the aircraft man-
ufacturer completes this task and in
fact, Cessna did it on various models
during initial certification. Certi-
fication could also be obtained by
some other entity via STC, but as of
this writing there is no such mod to
convert non-certified Twin Cessnas
to FIKI, nor is one underway that
I’m aware of."

Further reading. ourpdf.pdf (cessna.com)
 
Didn't the FAA issue an AD prohibiting flight into known ice on the Twin Cessnas that did not have the FIKI certification? IIRC, the Twin Cessna's only had FIKI as an option starting with the 1978 models.
 
Kristin said:
Didn't the FAA issue an AD prohibiting flight into known ice on the Twin Cessnas that did not have the FIKI certification? IIRC, the Twin Cessna's only had FIKI as an option starting with the 1978 models.
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Pretty sure that’s all the non-FIKI aircraft. After all, what does “FIKI” stand for?
 
Kristin said:
Didn't the FAA issue an AD prohibiting flight into known ice on the Twin Cessnas that did not have the FIKI certification?
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Yes they did and referenced the Cessna bulletin linked above. As I recall there was a lively NPRM discussion over the AD in that it wasn't needed. The AD merely required a placard or AFM supplement to state no FIKI without certification as some people had their own idea what that meant.
 
As a practical matter, the "full de-ice" and "known ice" Twin Cessnas should be operated the same way. (Step 1: Avoid ice. Step 2: If you encounter ice, talk to ATC and use the equipment to safely get out of the ice. Step 3: Go back to step 1.) For part 91, I wouldn't make a decision about a 340 based on which of those it is. Instead, you should get a nice 340, put a great panel in it, and then sell it to me when I'm ready to upgrade and don't want to deal with the panel upgrade myself. :) They're not super spacious inside but I think they're fantastic planes if the seating and useful load work for your mission.
 
dans2992 said:
Pretty sure that’s all the non-FIKI aircraft. After all, what does “FIKI” stand for?
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You make the assumption that something involving the FAA is straight-forward and intuitive.:) Actually, FIKI certification is about aircraft certification, not directly about operations. It backs into operations as newer aircraft that are produced at some point after the introduction of FIKI, either had to have the equipment required, or there was a limitation in the AFM against flying in known ice. So aircraft, like my 1969 PA-30, has no prohibition against flying into known ice. The FAA can, if it wants to, enact a Part 91 rule that barred flight into known ice by aircraft that are not so certified, but the FAA has not done so. They can also issue an AD, as they did with the Twin Cessna's, but not for any other aircraft, as of yet.
 
Bell206 said:
Yes they did and referenced the Cessna bulletin linked above. As I recall there was a lively NPRM discussion over the AD in that it wasn't needed. The AD merely required a placard or AFM supplement to state no FIKI without certification as some people had their own idea what that meant.
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I have always maintained that the FAA was missing the boat in focusing on certifying aircraft instead of the pilot. I flew night cargo back in the 80's in the Upper Midwest in "deiced" C-310's. I am well aware of their limitations. I survived it.
 
Salty said:
Fully Insane Kamakazi Idiocy
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..this is funny, reminds me of the old ETOPS "engines turn or people swim" quip

Mtns2Skies said:
penetrating weather in capable light aircraft
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Salty said:
I have all the experience I ever intend to get
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Zeldman said:
I have little fear of icing conditions, but I have a lot of respect for icing.
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I sort of agree with all of these. Not that any piston single can be considered "capable" per se but when I had access to a FIKI plane there were many trips I could not have done otherwise. Each time while in ice I hated it, but appreciated the planes capability to get me through it. FWIW the FIKI SR-22 has multiple redundancies, the only catch was getting it primed and going BEFORE you need it

What struck me most was how fast the ice builds, makes you really respect the stuff that's for sure!

At least on the -22 I only ever saw ice on 3 portions of the wing. By the root which has a little tab specifically for ice, by the cuff, and by the unprotected light. Seeing the fluid stream down the wings always game me a warm and cozy feeling <3

upload_2022-11-15_11-30-57.png
 
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