Instrument training questions

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Trcpilot

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1. Do you recommend completing 40 hours dual or 15 hours dual with 25 safety pilot?(Pros/Cons)


2. Realistically is it even possible to understand Instrument flying in 15 hours?


3.How long did it take you to complete your instrument training?

4. post your instrument training numbers.
Part 61. Or Part 141.
A. Dual: #hours
B. Safety Pilot: # hours


5. For the AATD simulated time, how many hours did you complete for the training?
 
Not sure how effective it is to be using a safety pilot with so few hours. Hopefully the safety pilot is instrument rated .when you use an instructor you get feedback so you don’t adopt bad practices.
 
Thanks for the response Back. Let me ask you a question? Are you instrument rated? If so, what are some of the things you wish you would have known prior to starting that would have benefited your training? Thank you!
 
Trcpilot said:
1. Do you recommend completing 40 hours dual or 15 hours dual with 25 safety pilot?(Pros/Cons) Either/or aren’t the only possible answers. Anything in between is legal, too. Bottom line, make sure you’ve got a really good handle on instrument flying (or at least the elements you want to practice) before you fly with a safety pilot.


2. Realistically is it even possible to understand Instrument flying in 15 hours? Depends primarily on you, but the quality of your instructor is probably a close second.

4. post your instrument training numbers.
Part 61. Or Part 141. Part 61
A. Dual: #hours 40
B. Safety Pilot: # hours 0

5. For the AATD simulated time, how many hours did you complete for the training? 2.5 hours, because I needed some rapid-fire practice to remind me to time approaches. While this was with a CFII, I consider it more the equivalent of Safety Pilot time, since I directed the lesson to achieve my goals. (Plus, the instructor was crappy.)
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The safety pilot hours are of dubious/little value in my mind.

If you aren't fortunate enough to have a background in instrument flying, you NEED an instructor with you when you're in the air, and add lots of ground school to explain navigation and systems.
 
Trcpilot said:
1. Do you recommend completing 40 hours dual or 15 hours dual with 25 safety pilot?(Pros/Cons)


2. Realistically is it even possible to understand Instrument flying in 15 hours?


3.How long did it take you to complete your instrument training?

4. post your instrument training numbers.
Part 61. Or Part 141.
A. Dual: #hours
B. Safety Pilot: # hours


5. For the AATD simulated time, how many hours did you complete for the training?
Click to expand...

There is much more to the instrument rating than just learning to control the airplane by reference to the instruments, although that is definitely important. A lot of instrument flying is "head stuff." You need to dig into the books, especially about the regs and weather.

I would not recommend flying with a safety pilot, because you may be doing something wrong and the safey pilot may not even know you are. It took me almost two years to finish the IR (no flying with a safety pilot), and the thing that motivated me the most was not wanting to take the written again! :) I didn't regret taking that long while I was doing it, and still don't. I was able to fly in all four seasons of the year. I don't remember how many hours it took. I would have to dig out my logbook to find out and I am a little on the lazy side. :)

The IR is a good idea, but don't try to rush it. It takes as long as it takes.
 
During PPL, I would recommend more hood time, and definitely more night time. If you have a good XC (>50nm), then focus on getting those in too.

For Instrument, again it’s all hood, I would try to make everything a XC (>50nm), combined with more night experience and actual IMC where possible.

As a commercial pilot, I am not comfortable flying IMC, due to lack of experience in IMC. Wearing a hood is nothing compared to flying at night or losing your horizon due to Lake Michigan. Get the experience early on will benefit you in the long run. Looking back at it, I’m shocked that I was legal to fly at night, if there was an emergency I’m not sure I could handle it successfully. At least now I can locate an airport at night. :D

Now that flying is becoming easier for me with experience, I have time to think about emergency landing options and trying to figure out what type of field is on the ground (grass, pavement, corn, or?)
 
Trcpilot said:
Thanks for the response Back. Let me ask you a question? Are you instrument rated? If so, what are some of the things you wish you would have known prior to starting that would have benefited your training? Thank you!
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I am instrument rated and hold an ATP ,not sure my advice would help as I got my ratings in the 90s. Training options have changed significantly. Knowing the material for the written is important then flying the airplane with precision is a necessary task.
 
somorris said:
There is much more to the instrument rating than just learning to control the airplane by reference to the instruments, although that is definitely important.
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Quoted for truth. I could fly the airplane under the hood just fine on my first IR lesson. I could do turns and hold headings and climb & descend. 38 hours with my cfii later, I felt ready for the check ride. I had zero safety pilot time and zero simulator time. I don't believe a safety pilot would've helped, as the instructor was teaching on every flight.
 
Trcpilot said:
1. Do you recommend completing 40 hours dual or 15 hours dual with 25 safety pilot?(Pros/Cons)
Click to expand...
Dual until your CFI-I says you’re proficient enough to fly with a safety pilot.

Trcpilot said:
2. Realistically is it even possible to understand Instrument flying in 15 hours?
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Yes, but the flying is only a part of it. Can you be proficient to ACS standards in 15hrs? Maybe, but not likely.

Trcpilot said:
3.How long did it take you to complete your instrument training?
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It took time in span (days start to finish) and hours than PPL for a variety of reasons.

Trcpilot said:
4. post your instrument training numbers.
Part 61. Or Part 141.
A. Dual: #hours
B. Safety Pilot: # hours
Click to expand...
Pt 61. The hours are irrelevant; I had more than the minimum in all categories and I had actual as well.

Trcpilot said:
5. For the AATD simulated time, how many hours did you complete for the training?
Click to expand...
.3 in a frasca that didn’t count or matter.
 
1) 40-dual
2) Depends on the individual
3) 40-ish (first CFII retired and there was some delay switching to the second)
4) Part 61
4A) 40-ish (see above)
4B) 0
5) 7.1
 
TCABM said:
Dual until your CFI-I says you’re proficient enough to fly with a safety pilot
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:yeahthat:

15hrs with a CFII would be unusual. Safety pilot works best when the safety pilot is instrument rated or at least another instrument student.

Safety pilots work best when they or you work with the CFII to make each flight a productive as possible. For example having a CFII show you pattern A and Pattern B, and then do a practice flight or two with a Safety pilot to get better at them.

I think best to not do more than two flights with the safety pilot before you fly with the CFII again. Ask the CFII what you should be practicing on the flights with the Safety Pilot.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Trcpilot said:
1. Do you recommend completing 40 hours dual or 15 hours dual with 25 safety pilot?(Pros/Cons)


2. Realistically is it even possible to understand Instrument flying in 15 hours?


3.How long did it take you to complete your instrument training?

4. post your instrument training numbers.
Part 61. Or Part 141.
A. Dual: #hours
B. Safety Pilot: # hours


5. For the AATD simulated time, how many hours did you complete for the training?
Click to expand...


1. No one can make this recommendation without first flying with you and assessing your performance.
2. It is theoretically possible to do it in 15 hours, but whether that theory applies to you or not depends entirely on your preparedness, motivation and quality of training.
 
You really don't want the safety pilot to be spending much time looking at the instruments, IMO. That's not what they're there for.

I expect that instrument instructors have a lot more experience dividing their attention between monitoring the instruments and looking for traffic than the average non-instructor safety pilot.
 
Everyone is different. Everyone had issues with different parts of the rating. So what works for someone, doesn't work for someone else.

IMO, the more time dual and the more time in IMC during training, the better.

But you can also get to the point where you are self critiquing as well as the instructor, so while it is good to have the instructor, you can still get benefit from safety pilot hood time.

I can't give you hours, because I did mine through military. We did motion sims and in the airplane. Some of the airplane was actual, some was hood. The only non-instructor time was "solo" sim time, which was when they sent two students to the sim to fly and work with each other.
 
I did mine in 41 hours total time
15 dual with CFII (10 hrs dual in a BATD, 5 hrs dual in an Airplane)
26hrs with safety pilot.

Yes it's possible to get your ifr with the minimum dual time. I spent about 15 hrs on the ground with my CFII doing ground work. Something that helped me greatly was using Xplane and flying approaches at home on my own time.

I did all my IFR in about 6 months from start to finish.
 
Not trying to be a smart a$$, but your question 2, did I "realistically understand Instrument flying in 15 hours"? I understood it in like 5 hours...but I was pursuing the instrument rating with nearly 1000 hours VFR, so I'm sure that helped. I used an old, grizzled, 10,000-hour instrument pilot as my safety pilot. I learned MUCH more with him than my instructor, and that is not a slam on my instructor, but my safety pilot knew his stuff.
 
Normally safety pilot hours are not very beneficial because you don’t know the tasks you need to practice.
 
As to the safety pilot question, if your CFI says you’re ready for checkride but short of hours, then using a non-CFI safety pilot might be of financial or time benefit. Get proficient with a CFI first.
 
This is the position I am in and would like to get some feedback. I am a partner in a Cherokee 180 and one of my partners has been a private pilot for about a year and a half, and I've flown with him several times and he's a very good pilot. Him and I talked several months ago about getting our instrument ratings, and he has already started working towards his. He is using a friend of mine as his CFII and I waited for feedback. I initiated a conversation with the CFII letting him I was interested and we met yesterday to talk about training. My partner has informed me that he was possibly going to change CFII's because the CFII that we were both going to use doesn't have a good technical background. He is older and doesn't know our GPS (Garmin 355) really well, and he uses Foreflight and is far from an expert. Since I've initiated this possible training, is it going to be an issue having the CFII not having a good technical background? My partner and I work together trying to move towards our IR. My partner has a good understanding of our GPS, and he has a decent understanding of Foreflight. I'd like to know POA's thoughts on whether is would be a good idea to have a CFII with a good technical background, or does it not matter? Both CFII's being good instructors. In our case, both my partner and I would be using each other as safety pilots and helper (verifying with the CFII).
 
FlyBoyAndy said:
This is the position I am in and would like to get some feedback.
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While it’s nice for a CFIIto have in-depth systems knowledge on your specific device, unless lack thereof became an impediment to learning, I would not count that as a deal killer. The IRA ACS Tasks II. B, V. A and B, VI. A and B, describe what is expected for you to demonstrate on the check ride.

The question I would be asking your potential CFI-I is how many candidates have they sent to a checkride in the past 12 months, what were the outcomes, and which ones could you talk to for references.
 
My view of safety pilots in instrument training hs been the same for decades.

The use of a safety pilot for instrument training is the instrument student's version of student pilot solo. It's best for practicing what you have already learned and is most effective when coordinated with your CFII.

I did one flight with a safety pilot during my training. It was arranged by my instructor.
 
midlifeflyer said:
My view of safety pilots in instrument training hs been the same for decades.

The use of a safety pilot for instrument training is the instrument student's version of student pilot solo. It's best for practicing what you have already learned and is most effective when coordinated with your CFII.

I did one flight with a safety pilot during my training. It was arranged by my instructor.
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On some of the other questions and comments basic aircraft control/attitude instrument flying, while essential, is the smallest part of instrument training, 10-20% at most.
 
midlifeflyer said:
On some of the other questions and comments basic aircraft control/attitude instrument flying, while essential, is the smallest part of instrument training, 10-20% at most.
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A small part of, but none of the other stuff works well without it. ;)
 
Thank you all for all the feedback. It’s greatly appreciated!
 
Not sure where to post this so here it is.


I often hear instrument students practicing instrument approaches on ctaf announce things like "cessna xxx is outside famta on the ILS runway xxx" or things like "cessna xxx is inside whatever fix for the ILS runway xxx".

The vfr traffic has no clue what or where those fixes are. This is a waste because it doesn't tell me the vfr avg joe pilot how far out those fixes are.

why do they do that and why aren't they thinking about that?
 
ahmad said:
Not sure where to post this so here it is.


I often hear instrument students practicing instrument approaches on ctaf announce things like "cessna xxx is outside famta on the ILS runway xxx" or things like "cessna xxx is inside whatever fix for the ILS runway xxx".

The vfr traffic has no clue what or where those fixes are. This is a waste because it doesn't tell me the vfr avg joe pilot how far out those fixes are.

why do they do that and why aren't they thinking about that?
Click to expand...

They are showing their absolute superiority to vfr pilots...... or they and their instructors are dumb as dirt, I can't figure out which.

When I hear that I key up and say that I have no idea where that fix is, please give your direction and distance from the runway.
 
ahmad said:
…why do they do that and why aren't they thinking about that?
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There are mandatory reporting points that must be announced.

Good practice would be crossing FAMTA, 4 miles N of the field inbound. But that’s a lot for IFR students, especially early in training.
 
TCABM said:
There are mandatory reporting points that must be announced.

Good practice would be crossing FAMTA, 4 miles N of the field inbound. But that’s a lot for IFR students, especially early in training.
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Over CTAF?
 
Do 40 hours with an instructor, fly in as much actual as possible, and learn from an experienced instrument pilot in the process. You will be the better and safer for it. And you won't be afraid to use your ticket.
 
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