Independent cfi's: who do you have schedule the checkride?

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Neal Wilkinson

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I'm a relatively new CFI, with a 2 for 2 record so far. I did all my training at a "pilot mill" and my checkrides were scheduled for me with like a week or two notice. Out in the real world, it doesn't work that way.

My first student was almost ready for the ride when I took him on, and had already had a dpe he wanted to use and was scheduled. My next student, I kind of told him dpe's in the area I knew of, he called them and picked who he wanted for his availability.

So, my question is, how do most independent cfi's deal with scheduling? Do you pick the dpe and ask their availability then pass that on to the student? Or leave it to the student to pick who they want, with maybe a list of dpe's you like?

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Either.

I mainly do instrument and ME rides, so I slightly prefer reaching out to the DPE myself first to get a feel for how he likes to do certain things, and suss out his common pain points. Then I can present my applicant with those items already in mind and addressed in training.

ME in particular, I do a lot in medium twins, and those usually have certain peccadilloes w/r/t Vmc demonstration that need respected, briefed, and understood beforehand. Also if there are other oddities (Accumulators or not? VGs or not? Other sources of nonstandard behaviour?) -- I prefer to NOT surprise an examiner.

My own plane has an early OEI buffet, above blueline even, and reading the ACS verbatim, the maneuver would need to be recovered before it really begins. Suits me fine :D, but if the Examiner wants to see it all the way to/past redline and pushed through that buffet, I need my applicant to brief him about the buffet, narrate during the maneuver, and demonstrate as expected.

Getting ahead of those individual DPE quirks will preserve your "record" too. :)

$0.02
 
Unless the student happens to prefer a specific DPE, I think the CFI is in the best position to know or learn which DPEs are compatible and make recommendations.

(My CFI chose for my private, I chose for my instrument - my CFI didn't know him.)
 
It is challenging. Especially in an area with many many students and too few examiners.

For my students, I provided a list of the DPE's known to be active and their contact info. 8 to 10-ish weeks from earning my signature, I advised they get busy making contact and scheduling. Most examiners were booking 6 weeks out. The popular ones and those known to provide a fair and educational exam were very difficult to get on their schedule.

I have the idea of becoming a DPE If this challenge still exists when I am done playing in the 121 world. It appears to be a satisfying job and the dollars ain't terrible either.
 
It's been a while since I've been in the business of signing off candidates but I'd usually discuss with the student and determine if they had a preference. I'd generally contact the DPE and give him a heads up to let him know I had a candidate ready and inquire on how his availability was (several of our DPEs at the time were full time 135 pilots so their availability varied drastically). If all was good, id let him know the candidate would be reaching out shortly to schedule the test.

All of my students either owned airplanes or were part of clubs or partnerships so they could schedule the test around the availability of the planes. In a flight school environment, it might make more sense for the school to schedule since they control access to the planes and can reschedule other students if plane availability becomes an issue.
 
AggieMike88 said:
I have the idea of becoming a DPE If this challenge still exists when I am done playing in the 121 world. It appears to be a satisfying job and the dollars ain't terrible either.
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I suspect once you factor in cancellations and other issues, you really have to hustle to make a good living. I think for most it's a nice supplemental income to either a flexible FT gig or retirement. One of our long-time local DPEs had his own dental practice. Somehow he managed to do practical tests around root canals and fillings.
 
Not a CFI, but I did my private and instrument pt 61. Around here, it's left up to the student to schedule the checkride. There's really only two active DPE's within a reasonable distance, and as mentioned above they are both booked out a couple months. My CFI's basically said, I think we're getting close, better get it scheduled.

Brad Z said:
I suspect once you factor in cancellations and other issues, you really have to hustle to make a good living. I think for most it's a nice supplemental income to either a flexible FT gig or retirement. One of our long-time local DPEs had his own dental practice. Somehow he managed to do practical tests around root canals and fillings.
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Both the guys around here are active airline captains, (well, were; the guy I used recently hit 65) but with enough seniority that they have a lot of time off and do checkrides in between trips. It was kind of cool talking to a guy with a lifetime of experience like that.
 
Both of my checkrides were scheduled between myself and the DPE.
I don't think it would be a good idea for you to get involved in the checkride or have any dealings with the DPE.
My CFII gave me a small list of DPE and it was up to me to decide who to use. It came down to who was available the soonest. They were scheduled out for about 2 months a few years ago when I took my last checkride.
I have become friends with the pilot next to my hangar, he is a Captain for a major airline for 21 years now and 42 year experience as a pilot. I have learned so much from flying with him. He does my BFR and my IPC as he is a check airmen also. Super smart guy...I am so lucky.
 
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Brad Z said:
I suspect once you factor in cancellations and other issues, you really have to hustle to make a good living. I think for most it's a nice supplemental income to either a flexible FT gig or retirement. One of our long-time local DPEs had his own dental practice. Somehow he managed to do practical tests around root canals and fillings.
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I suppose it depends on your area, but around here, at $600 a checkride (which seems to be the going rate), it doesn't take that many to have a decent living. We have a very popular DPE around here who absolutely does put in the hustle - he's doing 2 checkrides almost every day of the week, and driving all around the state to do them. But he's also very efficient and gets the checkrides done quickly - no 4-hour orals with him.

As far as having the student or CFI do the scheduling, I've done both. We had a shortage of examiners in this area for a long time (reportedly still do, but I haven't recommended an applicant for about a year), so "choosing your examiner" basically came down to a choice of 1. So as the CFI I'd call that DPE and get an idea of his availability, then put the applicant and DPE in touch with each other.

On some occasions with the quicker ratings (like multi add-on), I'd actually schedule a checkride with an "applicant to be named later" - in other words, before they even started. The DPE and I had a good enough relationship that it worked out well. I would know I had a checkride blocked off on some future date, I just had to make sure I had an applicant to fill it. It had to be done that way when there's a 2 month backlog for a rating that can be done in a week.
 
If a student feels they have been failed by a DPE without due cause, they should always choose a different DPE for the retake. Otherwise the DPEs are incentivized to fail students strictly for the DPE's own monetary gain.
 
For my private the CFI told me who to contact but left it up to me to schedule. Likewise for my first shot at IR (never took the ride that time, plane broke).

For my successful IR and the CP & ME that followed the school I used scheduled the DPE and then scheduled my intensives back from that.
 
E.W. said:
If a student feels they have been failed by a DPE without due cause, they should always choose a different DPE for the retake. Otherwise the DPEs are incentivized to fail students strictly for the DPE's own monetary gain.
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Unfortunately students often feel they have been failed by a DPE without due cause when due cause existed.
 
I was lucky. I had the same DPE for all my certs and CFI ratings all the way until my ATP.

On two occasions, I scheduled the next ride with him during the oral...
 
I prepare my student to pass the test with any examiner. It is the students responsibility to select the DPE and schedule the check ride.
 
Hmm, my Private DPE was picked by my instructor.

My ASES examiner was picked by the school. But was the only independent examiner around. The other one was at a competing school.

My Comm AMEL and IA were mil comp, so no flight test.

My Comm ASEL and CFI AS was the examiner on staff at the time and I was training to work there.

My CFII was also examiner on staff at the school where I did the rating.

My Comm Glider was FAA, I walked into the GADO (at the time) asked, chatted with him and set it up.

My CFI G was also FAA.

My Private and CFI RH were the examiner on the field. My Comm DPE was found my my school as the guy on the field was screwing around trying to get it scheduled.
 
schmookeeg said:
Curious why you feel this way.
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Well for one, it's more work for the CFII to make the appointment with the DPE.
Then it was up to me when I had to cancel my checkride 3 times because of weather. If my CFII made the appointment then he would have had to do it 3 more times while checking with me if the dates and time would work and making sure a plane is available if your not using your own plane. More work for the CFII that he is not getting paid for.
Then it seems that it would put more pressure on the student not to cancel?
My DPE told me she considers the judgement of the student as far as the weather goes. She said that I made the right call by cancelling when I did. I think if you showed up for a checkride and the weather is bad you may have pay the DPE a second time if you are wasting their time.

I also think there could be a conflict of interest if the CFII was urging the DPE to pass the student to make the CFII look good or be accused of that?
 
Gary Ward said:
I also think there could be a conflict of interest if the CFII was urging the DPE to pass the student to make the CFII look good or be accused of that?
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I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of a CFI even being accused of that, much less doing it.
 
It’s called steering. The CFI sets up the test because he has prepared the applicant for the test presented by the DPE to every student or to a DPE that has a relationship with a school that fully has gouged the DPE’s test.
 
I do it for my students. I know the DPE and there’s no surprises.

E.W. said:
If a student feels they have been failed by a DPE without due cause, they should always choose a different DPE for the retake. Otherwise the DPEs are incentivized to fail students strictly for the DPE's own monetary gain.
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DPE we use doesn’t charge for a retake as long as we fit it in with other checkrides he’s already gonna be there for anyway. Some do, but it’s usually half the rate or something. Going to a totally new DPE after a failure would be a big gamble, big cost, and a lot of repeated work.
 
A good CFI should have a few DPEs in their Rolodex, pick the best one, work the ruff details out, what ride, approx availability, is it ok to have student contact

Have the student call, remind the student to get info for their W&B and proposed flight
 
DPEs are getting hard to find. We have one who will drive to our airport, which I prefer because the student is familiar with the area, making the check ride easier. However, that examiner goes to Arizona all winter and does two check rides a day there. So now we have another DPE but we have to go to his airport for the ride. His availability is limited, so I usually have the applicant do the scheduling, although my boss prefers to have the CFI schedule.
 
In general I schedule the check ride. Sure all DPEs test to the ACS, but I don't want any surprises. If we use the DPE that's based at our field, I'll usually go for the first paperwork part, just to be sure there are no IACRA or logbook problems as a curtesy for my students.
And as far as "making a living" as a DPE, do the math. $1200/day or more of cash income without a W2 or 1099. Good grief.
 
Lance F said:
And as far as "making a living" as a DPE, do the math. $1200/day or more of cash income without a W2 or 1099. Good grief.
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That seems on par with the 121 stuff I keep reading about lately. I suspect DPE rates may spike soon. For the same money, if my choice was to potter around in a C150 with a person trying to kill me creatively, or sit in some automation-festooned boeing with a qualified companion and some staff to bring me refreshments... I might lean to the latter :D

Since there's a thorough federal record of checkrides administered, I doubt very much of a DPE's income is "off the books". The ones I know are very... liberal... with their aviation investments, which I presume are deducted. :)
 
schmookeeg said:
Since there's a thorough federal record of checkrides administered, I doubt very much of a DPE's income is "off the books". The ones I know are very... liberal... with their aviation investments, which I presume are deducted. :)
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I agree. Whenever I hear the implication that DPEs "must" all be IRS cheats, I tend to roll my eyes. Now, I'm not naïve, and I wasn't born yesterday, and I'm sure some are out there. But with the amount of government tracking and paperwork out there for checkrides, I have to believe it's not really that widespread. I mean, the most basic audit could uncover fraud pretty easily.

But now, the tax deductions, sure. But those aren't any different from any other self-employed businessperson.
 
There is no standard price for a checkride. The DPEs we've used tell the applicants they prefer cash. So, yes, the government can see how many rides they do, but with no paper trail they don't know the actual income.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
There is no standard price for a checkride. The DPEs we've used tell the applicants they prefer cash. So, yes, the government can see how many rides they do, but with no paper trail they don't know the actual income.
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Of course. But if a DPE did 200 checkrides last year (of which there is an easily found and extensive paper trail), and claims $10,000 in income, that's the same as saying they only charge $50 per checkride. Which is something even a halfway-motivated rookie IRS agent should be able to check up on easily.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
There is no standard price for a checkride. The DPEs we've used tell the applicants they prefer cash. So, yes, the government can see how many rides they do, but with no paper trail they don't know the actual income.
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They want cash because they don’t want a student who fails to screw them.
 
I'll assist a student with the process but do try to get them in touch with the DPE, personally.
 
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