Maybe I shouldn't fly? Downwind.

I

Imposter Pilot

Guest
TLDR: older dude (50) lacking confidence after returning to the cockpit after 13 yrs. Landed downwind with a xwind (landed 11 with winds 32010g15) and scared himself. Made some dumb mistakes. Will try again before quitting.

Much longer version.
I got my license at 19 in the early 90s and accumulated about 450 hrs by 2008. Simple math - I didn't fly often.

Right at the end of that period I was flying 30-50 hrs a year but was laid off from my job. Didn't have time to fly after that.

Fast forward 13 years, 2 new jobs and 3 kids - I found Basic Med, a CFII and a flight review sign off December 21.

Rented for about 10 hrs (over 8 months) and then just recently joined a flying club. Flew with their CFI twice (about 4 hrs) and the club president to get signed off. Emergencies, air work, landings. Some focus on the awesome avionics that are totally new to me. Almost all nice landings. What I thought were normal landings but the CFI referred to as soft field. Pretty much on the centerline, generally just after the numbers. Even I thought "Hey - maybe I'm finally good at landings!? Maybe age and wisdom was all it took!"

That should have been my warning flag.

So I go up in the club plane for the first time by myself. I've essentially rented the same plane (172R rental vs 172SP in the club) solo several times. Somehow this was mentally different because (1) club plane tied down outside vs rental in a hangar, (2) club plane - manage your own fuel vs. rental was almost always full tanks, (3) rental is in farm country vs club plane is uncontrolled but in complicated airspace and (4) new to me avionics and much more important to know where you are vs paper charts and steam gauges and really no airspace to bust on the rental in farm country.

Anyway - planned a short flight to get my feet wet. Supposed to be a 3 airport round Robin to land at an airport 50+ miles away, talk to some controllers and then get inexpensive self serve fuel and get home.

My daughter forgot something for sports so I had to go drop that off at school which put me at the airport later. Had a work call scheduled at the end of my planned flight so I had to be back on-time. - I switched the round Robin I had "planned" and briefed and decided to just go the fuel stop. I figured learning how to fuel the aircraft (never had to with a rental) might take some time.

East - West runway with winds 10-12 out of the north for departure. I thought that would normally give me pause but I'm good at landings now. Might not be pretty but I can land in 12 knot winds. Fuel was 12 gallons a side. I figured that's 2 hrs and it's a 1:15 round trip. No worries.

Only I actually was worried. I've never flown with only 2hrs on board. These guys are particular about how they maintain their plane and managing fuel for the next guy (never too full, never empty). What if I'm late coming back and miss this call?

Anyway - take off uneventful on 29. Following their procedures I was really cruising along (I guess I've never actually had 75% power leaned out in a rental - I was seeing 120 on the ASI). I can't quite keep up on my paper maps and before you know it I'm maneuvering for the pattern.

I was going to land on 1, the grass runway, but chickened out. Couple guys landing 11 (asphalt in great condition - like newly laid). So I went north and descended entering on the 45. Actually really nice entry and maneuvering for me as that stuff always bothers me (am I doing it wrong? Did I cut anyone off etc).

Turns out - winds were 320 10 gusting 15.

I'm number 2 in the pattern. RV had just landed and Arrow ahead of me base to final.
When I turn final I'm a little high and speeding up, even though on airspeed. I slip to get down. Really nice slip and I'm all lined up and not coming down as the runway seems to be sailing by. Any increase in AOA and I'm gaining some impressive altitude so I went around. Literally said "OK - Going around and we'll try that again Skyhawk blah blah turning crosswind staying in the pattern".

I thought - what if I can't land and then run out of fuel?!!! You moron!!!!

But I plunked that sucker down second time. Not enough flair and hit the nose but didn't balloon. Couple folks landed behind me sort of ugly too.

After getting fuel I listened to the awos and decided to wait out the Archer on final to 11 and depart 29. Uneventful crosswind takeoff and a few incoming planes all switched to 29 (they weren't in the pattern yet).

I actually had a greaser at the homedrone landing 29 (asos said 34012).

I wonder if I'm not cut out for this. But maybe I'm just rusty. Im hoping flying more often will build confidence vs bend metal.


Take aways:
1. I allowed myself to be rushed.
2. I was mentally intimidated by flying the clubs plane.
3. I should get the iPad. When I looked at foreflight on my phone the anxiety of situational awareness under the Bravo went way down.
4. Slow down. 125 knots isn't fast to most, but under the bravo shelf where I wasn't 100% certain where I was, I could have pulled the power back.
5. Don't follow the herd. I figured with all the "more experienced" pilots landing 11 - the tailwind must not be that big a deal. 4300 feet of asphalt - it probably wasn't for those more proficient. I could have waited out the 3 planes and landed 29 or even had some guts and tried the grass. Either would have been less exciting for me.
6. Fly more often. I've been averaging 4hrs a month since joining this club but need a stint of flying often to knock the rust off. Maybe even an hr every other day or something.
 
This doesn't read like someone who is not cut out for this to me. Going around was a good decision and it seems you've identified a bunch of things you learned from. I think that's the most important part. Most of us have flights we could have performed better on.

Once I confidently landed downwind after reading the windsock backwards. Even asked my friend/CFI in the right seat to confirm it and we both saw what we wanted to see. About to flare and I'm thinking, why does it seem like everything is happening faster than it usually does? And then I taxied past the windsock...oh, that's why.
 
I'm training at an uncontrolled airport. I'll ask my CFI when I see him, but why were folks landing on 11 if winds were from the north? What does one do when the pattern currently in use is opposite of what you believe to be the safest direction?
 
Baked Potato said:
I'm training at an uncontrolled airport. I'll ask my CFI when I see him, but why were folks landing on 11 if winds were from the north? What does one do when the pattern currently in use is opposite of what you believe to be the safest direction?
Click to expand...
1. Don't fly
2. Use what everyone else is using (if it's in fact safe, even if not ideal)
3. Wait until you can safely depart on the runway you believe to be safe.
 
Baked Potato said:
I'm training at an uncontrolled airport. I'll ask my CFI when I see him, but why were folks landing on 11 if winds were from the north? What does one do when the pattern currently in use is opposite of what you believe to be the safest direction?
Click to expand...

Because of things like pilot number 1 has been flying patterns and didn't know the wind shift happened. Pilot #2 just hears pilot 1 on the radio landing on runway NN and follows suit. #3 does the same, and it just goes from there if there's no ASOS/AWOS on the field. Follow the leader.

As far as what to do, speak up and say "hey windsock is favoring [NN +/- 18.]" You'll be surprised at how many downwinds become upwinds and bases become crosswinds.
 
EdFred said:
As far as what to do, speak up and say "hey windsock is favoring [NN +/- 18.]" You'll be surprised at how many downwinds become upwinds and bases become crosswinds.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Certainly something to ask my CFI - I wonder what the procedure is to reverse the pattern if winds shift to make an existing pattern unsafe? Often a busy pattern at my airpark and a lot of students doing touch and goes a lot. Do you depart then re-enter?

Edit - I realize this may differ depending on the procedures at any given airport? Mine, for example (GAI) switches between right- or left-hand pattern depending on the runway in use. Due to noise restrictions over nearby neighborhoods, we can't just extend base or turn crosswind the other direction and go around the other side, for example, if that's even a thing at other places.
 
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Mason said:
Unless it is short/rough/wet it doesn't take guts to land on grass.
Click to expand...
I Remember the first time I landed on a grass strip in the Cherokee. The noise had me thinking the gear was going to come thru the wing. Compared to that, the Champ was as quite as could be.
 
Let those of us without sin cast the first stone...

If you are able to self-evaluate as you did, in general, you're fine. It takes time to get back in the saddle, and even then, the horse will still try to throw you after you're settled in.

After over 25 years of flying, I struggled over the past few years to maintain good currency for a variety of reasons, and am only now starting to fly more regularly again. What I have done to try to maintain currency is continue in the FAA Wings program annually, so even when I wasn't flying a lot, it was with a purpose. I would encourage you to look at doing a phase or two of Wings to help get back in the groove. You and your CFI get to decide much of what you need the most of during each phase.

Be active reading about aviation - whether reviewing various guides or regs, or reading (the useful parts) of forums like this one, it helps your brain maintain/regain focus on aviating.
 
Imposter Pilot said:
TLDR: older dude (50) lacking confidence after returning to the cockpit after 13 yrs. Landed downwind with a xwind (landed 11 with winds 32010g15) and scared himself. Made some dumb mistakes. Will try again before quitting.

Much longer version.
I got my license at 19 in the early 90s and accumulated about 450 hrs by 2008. Simple math - I didn't fly often.

Right at the end of that period I was flying 30-50 hrs a year but was laid off from my job. Didn't have time to fly after that.

Fast forward 13 years, 2 new jobs and 3 kids - I found Basic Med, a CFII and a flight review sign off December 21.

Rented for about 10 hrs (over 8 months) and then just recently joined a flying club. Flew with their CFI twice (about 4 hrs) and the club president to get signed off. Emergencies, air work, landings. Some focus on the awesome avionics that are totally new to me. Almost all nice landings. What I thought were normal landings but the CFI referred to as soft field. Pretty much on the centerline, generally just after the numbers. Even I thought "Hey - maybe I'm finally good at landings!? Maybe age and wisdom was all it took!"

That should have been my warning flag.

So I go up in the club plane for the first time by myself. I've essentially rented the same plane (172R rental vs 172SP in the club) solo several times. Somehow this was mentally different because (1) club plane tied down outside vs rental in a hangar, (2) club plane - manage your own fuel vs. rental was almost always full tanks, (3) rental is in farm country vs club plane is uncontrolled but in complicated airspace and (4) new to me avionics and much more important to know where you are vs paper charts and steam gauges and really no airspace to bust on the rental in farm country.

Anyway - planned a short flight to get my feet wet. Supposed to be a 3 airport round Robin to land at an airport 50+ miles away, talk to some controllers and then get inexpensive self serve fuel and get home.

My daughter forgot something for sports so I had to go drop that off at school which put me at the airport later. Had a work call scheduled at the end of my planned flight so I had to be back on-time. - I switched the round Robin I had "planned" and briefed and decided to just go the fuel stop. I figured learning how to fuel the aircraft (never had to with a rental) might take some time.

East - West runway with winds 10-12 out of the north for departure. I thought that would normally give me pause but I'm good at landings now. Might not be pretty but I can land in 12 knot winds. Fuel was 12 gallons a side. I figured that's 2 hrs and it's a 1:15 round trip. No worries.

Only I actually was worried. I've never flown with only 2hrs on board. These guys are particular about how they maintain their plane and managing fuel for the next guy (never too full, never empty). What if I'm late coming back and miss this call?

Anyway - take off uneventful on 29. Following their procedures I was really cruising along (I guess I've never actually had 75% power leaned out in a rental - I was seeing 120 on the ASI). I can't quite keep up on my paper maps and before you know it I'm maneuvering for the pattern.

I was going to land on 1, the grass runway, but chickened out. Couple guys landing 11 (asphalt in great condition - like newly laid). So I went north and descended entering on the 45. Actually really nice entry and maneuvering for me as that stuff always bothers me (am I doing it wrong? Did I cut anyone off etc).

Turns out - winds were 320 10 gusting 15.

I'm number 2 in the pattern. RV had just landed and Arrow ahead of me base to final.
When I turn final I'm a little high and speeding up, even though on airspeed. I slip to get down. Really nice slip and I'm all lined up and not coming down as the runway seems to be sailing by. Any increase in AOA and I'm gaining some impressive altitude so I went around. Literally said "OK - Going around and we'll try that again Skyhawk blah blah turning crosswind staying in the pattern".

I thought - what if I can't land and then run out of fuel?!!! You moron!!!!

But I plunked that sucker down second time. Not enough flair and hit the nose but didn't balloon. Couple folks landed behind me sort of ugly too.

After getting fuel I listened to the awos and decided to wait out the Archer on final to 11 and depart 29. Uneventful crosswind takeoff and a few incoming planes all switched to 29 (they weren't in the pattern yet).

I actually had a greaser at the homedrone landing 29 (asos said 34012).

I wonder if I'm not cut out for this. But maybe I'm just rusty. Im hoping flying more often will build confidence vs bend metal.


Take aways:
1. I allowed myself to be rushed.
2. I was mentally intimidated by flying the clubs plane.
3. I should get the iPad. When I looked at foreflight on my phone the anxiety of situational awareness under the Bravo went way down.
4. Slow down. 125 knots isn't fast to most, but under the bravo shelf where I wasn't 100% certain where I was, I could have pulled the power back.
5. Don't follow the herd. I figured with all the "more experienced" pilots landing 11 - the tailwind must not be that big a deal. 4300 feet of asphalt - it probably wasn't for those more proficient. I could have waited out the 3 planes and landed 29 or even had some guts and tried the grass. Either would have been less exciting for me.
6. Fly more often. I've been averaging 4hrs a month since joining this club but need a stint of flying often to knock the rust off. Maybe even an hr every other day or something.
Click to expand...


I read your story, and was waiting for the punch line but never found it. What exactly scared you that much to want to quit? An ugly landing? If you are going to let that sort of stuff get to you, maybe you aren't cut out for this :) Just kidding. You seem to be making a big deal out of nothing. Occasional bad landings are par for the course. Anyone who says they never had a bad landing is lying.
 
I think I was disappointed in what felt a lack of control in the situation. My situational awareness on paper charts also was not what it once was. My ability to hold altitude wasn't great. It was bumpy, but I busted 100 feet and everytime I looked at my charts we started a steep left turn (imbalanced plane with my big butt on that side - not control inputs (lack of constant control inputs??)).

I was trying to hold strict altitudes and heading to start working towards the IR again sometime next year (but I want to prove to myself that I'll use the planes before committing that cash).

I probably need to keep stretching those limited flying horizons by getting up more, going further and growing experiences.

Many firsts to come in a plane.
First meal out in a plane (how much time do you allow for that etc.).
First overnight with the plane.
First (it would be third - but first in 13 yrs) business trip in a plane.
First (in 13 years) in less than CAVU.
First time taking my daughters up.

I want to feel really comfortable before some of those firsts but maybe I'll never be comfortable and just have to do it.

The first approach I didn't immediately realize why it was getting away from me. The second approach I repeated the downwind landing mistake and forced it onto the ground and landed on the nose wheel which I haven't done yet this stint of flying (since Nov 2021). That was an ego bruiser. It was ugly.

I was pretty much on centerline, but everything else stunk and wasn't "in control".
 
It seems to me your expectations are not in line with reality. I've been there. Instead of thinking "I should be flying like a 450hr pilot who never had a time lapse, and has been flying 100hrs a year" put yourself in the category of "I am a new private pilot" yes, you have the 450 hours but the intervening years have eroded the skills you no doubt used to have. The fact is you were passed by CFIs and the president of your flying club, both of which have no benefit in pencil whipping your proficiency as any bent metal will cause questions for them if due to your incompetence.

My suggestion is simply to cut yourself some slack and just work on honing the skills.

A suggestion that has worked for me and others is to get a flight simulator setup. Doesn't have to be expensive, but it will help you work on maintaining your altitude and heading. If you're wanting to work on your radio comm there are a couple of options to incorporate that via vatsim (free) and pilotedge (paid, ATC is done by trained ATC controllers). Take a look at https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/is-basic-flight-simulators-fun-or-boring.139671 for some recent discussion about flight sims.

Welcome back, you're doing fine.
 
Could you maybe fly everyday for a week? Or 3x or something? I'm not saying three 5 hour flights, but go through the motions of preflighting, starting, taxiing, leaving and finding your airport and then tying down? Less than an hour flight (probably more than an hour at the airport)? Do that a few weeks in a row and see if you work the bugs out?

You could always go with an instructor but for me the instructor was a crutch. I was complacent with the instructor whereas I had to figure it out on my own (maybe not cross winds to 20 but within reason).
 
Your circumspection is an indication of a person who is suited to be called a "pilot". Keep questioning yourself and your performance.

A reporter asked Michael Jordan how he felt after scoring 60 points in a game. Michael's answer, "I thought I should have scored a few more points." He wasn't joking.
 
Imposter Pilot said:
I think I was disappointed in what felt a lack of control in the situation. My situational awareness on paper charts also was not what it once was. My ability to hold altitude wasn't great. It was bumpy, but I busted 100 feet and everytime I looked at my charts we started a steep left turn (imbalanced plane with my big butt on that side - not control inputs (lack of constant control inputs??)).

I was trying to hold strict altitudes and heading to start working towards the IR again sometime next year (but I want to prove to myself that I'll use the planes before committing that cash).

I probably need to keep stretching those limited flying horizons by getting up more, going further and growing experiences.

Many firsts to come in a plane.
First meal out in a plane (how much time do you allow for that etc.).
First overnight with the plane.
First (it would be third - but first in 13 yrs) business trip in a plane.
First (in 13 years) in less than CAVU.
First time taking my daughters up.

I want to feel really comfortable before some of those firsts but maybe I'll never be comfortable and just have to do it.

The first approach I didn't immediately realize why it was getting away from me. The second approach I repeated the downwind landing mistake and forced it onto the ground and landed on the nose wheel which I haven't done yet this stint of flying (since Nov 2021). That was an ego bruiser. It was ugly.

I was pretty much on centerline, but everything else stunk and wasn't "in control".
Click to expand...

I've had my license for 5 years and about 180 hours. I will admit I am nervous and hesitant to go fly if I haven't been in a month or more. Once I've been up 1-2x in a two week time, I find that things come easier, and the overall nervousness fades.

While precision is always to be strived for, I'd give yourself a break on 100' of altitude when VFR and just getting back in the saddle. As most will say, fly more often, get comfortable (but not complacent) with routine ops (flying around locally, hitting a few other airports, VFR cruising) and then start increasing the altitude and heading standards you hold yourself to.

Just MHO, I'm not an instructor.

I would get some help on the tendency to steep turn while your eyes are away. I had something similar when I did my first few IFR lessons, and my CFI observed me and gave me some tips for how to sit/hold my body that helped a lot with this.
 
First of all, as a 49yo, I'd like to remind you that 50 is not old. Secondly, it doesn't matter how many hours you have or how long you've been away, it's always a little out of the comfort zone flying after a long lapse. It seems you have a good handle on what you need to work on. Just fly more. Make a flying buddy and get some time in the air. Your comfort will increase exponentially over the next few flights. There are many good reasons to call it quits on a flying career; nothing you described even comes close.
 
Brad Z said:
First of all, as a 49yo, I'd like to remind you that 50 is not old.
Click to expand...
Agree... I'm also 49 and I don't want to be old yet!

Many years ago I was going into a fly-in that is usually very busy. The runways were 02-20, which hurts my brain. To make it more fun, the ceilings were low and the runway is hidden in tall pine trees so that when you're down low, you can't see it until you're lined up on final.

As I was coming in the guy playing Tower at the field kept saying don't exit to the right side of the runway, we've had a lot of rain and there is standing water. On short final, I realized I couldn't slow down. I decided to go around. As I'm going around, I'm thinking, this guy is an idiot, the water is on the left side of the runway. Now at this point, you've figured out what I did wrong, but not me! I went around and came in for another try. I was still having trouble slowing down and the helpful tower guy had gone radio silent, so it was just me in my Cessna 140 coming in like a rocket on final. Time to go around. On the third try, I had convinced myself I was coming in too hot and diving for the runway, so I would get lower and slower. It worked and this time I stuck it, still about halfway down the runway, but I was down. I pulled off the runway and into the camping area, chocked the plane and started walking toward registration when some guy came up to me and asked, "Man, did you see that idiot in the red/white 140 landing downwind?" I laughed and said something like, "Yeah, what an idiot." and didn't go near my plane until dark to setup my tent!

We all make mistakes. Mine could have been a lot worse if I'd met another plane going the right direction, I got lucky. I ignored several clues and continued on. I was nervous about the weather, the amount of traffic that is normally there, finding the runway, etc. I let these things pile up. Keep flying, you've got more mistakes to make!
 
I know several former pilots who walked away from flying after getting their private and accumulating less than one hundred hours. When I have encouraged them to make an effort to get back in the air they reply that they have “lost interest” or “don’t want spend the money, etc.” What is interesting is that when you dig deeper into their flying history that all have a story about a bad experience that contributed to their decision to quit. One guy flew into the clouds with his girlfriend and another botched a go-around. I do think there is a pattern to the decision to walk away from GA that is a result of a scary flying experience.
 
Different people have different triggers to stopping doing something.

If yours are triggered, move one. Many in time your mind will change. If not, what is the big deal.

But taking time off WILL cause you to lose skills. You need to practice. If your are worried about your skills, take a CFI along. If you are worried just a bit, take another pilot along.
 
Mason said:
Unless it is short/rough/wet it doesn't take guts to land on grass.
Click to expand...
It isn't about guts.

I think he actually made a good decision to not land on the grass under the circumstances.

Grass has its benefits, but dangers as well. Pilots can really jack up a landing on grass if they aren't proficient. Seen a lot of inexperienced pilots flare waaaay too early on grass and end up with a very hard landing.
 
Heck, I have been down 9 weeks. So, I flew with CFI...some of the hardest approaches in the CHI metro. Turns out we were pretty efficient and all was good- but I lean on training and recurrency.

"Don't f--k up, Lieutenant...." rings in my ears.
(Added late.....it's not about guts. It's about Smarts).
 
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After a 10 year break with no flying, I was completely overwhelmed by my first few dual sessons. Freaked out trying to enter the pattern at a multi-runway airport and had to take a CFI assisted timeout. Worried I wasn't cut out for this anymore.

A few years later I won my first aerobatic contest. Turns out I was cut out for this. And you are too.
 
Guy, you have awesome self awareness. Being critical of oneself is a Devine gift. Clearly you have it. Just don’t get carried away. Recognize the mistake, know how to correct it , move on. We all strive for the ecstasy of the perfect flight. 25 years and I’m still hunting. Keep hunting friend! If this stuff was easy, your moron neighbor would be flying. Stay in the mix. We need you!
 
Let’s say one flys 50 miles, fuel, food, or just a few touch & go’s, you should have a handle on the winds before you go, current then forecast over the next few hours. If course things can vary, local terrain, then the next airport will have runways different than departing.

Not much harm in a few knots on the tail, once you start getting over 10, a little more critical. Of course all the factors come into play.

We’ve all said at one time or another, ‘I won’t be doing that again’. On the scale your downwind landing episode sounds rather minor.
 
ServoB17 said:
Once I confidently landed downwind after reading the windsock backwards.
Click to expand...

I almost did the same thing once, but in my case, I noticed my error on short final and went around. Then someone said "good save" on the radio.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
What I have done to try to maintain currency is continue in the FAA Wings program annually, so even when I wasn't flying a lot, it was with a purpose. I would encourage you to look at doing a phase or two of Wings to help get back in the groove. You and your CFI get to decide much of what you need the most of during each phase.

Be active reading about aviation - whether reviewing various guides or regs, or reading (the useful parts) of forums like this one, it helps your brain maintain/regain focus on aviating.
Click to expand...

Bravo! More pilots should consider using the WINGS program. If you do it right, you'll be taking some free online courses and flying with a CFI now and then with a WINGS profile to keep basic skills fresh. It extends your Flight Review date and saves you money by not needing the ground portion of a Flight Review.
 
sonopoa said:
50 is the new 30

You are not old
Click to expand...

No it's not.
Yes he is.

Don't believe me? How many pro athletes are 50? How many are 30?

50 is past the half way point. Heck 45 is past the half way point.
Coming from someone past the halfway point.
 
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