How do you denounce your medical to switch to basic med

  • Thread starter Greg Johnson from Ocala
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Greg Johnson from Ocala

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Recently received my 3rd class medical but I forgot to list I was prescribed celexa during my divorce. My mother reminded me about my prescription after she read an article on her phone.
 
How?
You send it to Oklahoma City with a letter explaining why you are voluntarily surrendering it.
Not saying you should, but that's how you do it
 
Lindberg said:
You don't denounce it, you just go on basic med and let your medical expire.
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I think his issue is a bit different. The problem is the unintentional misrepresentation on the application for the current Class 3 and the problems it would likely cause if not corrected by the pilot and discovered by the FAA.

I'm not sure "denounce" is the correct word. It's really about the best way to correct the record without triggering a permanent revocation/denial which would prevent BasicMed reliance. That's a coordinated disclosure problem.
 
I don't think this is going to work out the way you think it will.

BasicMed is dependent upon a properly issued prior medical.

Since your contention is that the prior medical was incorrectly issued due to lacking information, it will be hard to defend that it was properly issued and thus a valid basis for going BasicMed if something were to happen later down the line.

To do this right, I'd go back to the AME and discuss it with them. It may be a big deal, it may not.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I think his issue is a bit different. The problem is the unintentional misrepresentation on the application for the current Class 3 and the problems it would likely cause if not corrected by the pilot and discovered by the FAA.

I'm not sure "denounce" is the correct word. It's really about the best way to correct the record without triggering a permanent revocation/denial which would prevent BasicMed reliance. That's a coordinated disclosure problem.
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That is indeed a different issue from what the poster asked. And if he's posting under his real name, that issue might resolve itself.
 
OP
1) Ask the admins to either delete this post or change you to "anonymous"
2) Were you on Celexa for a long time or just a few times? Recently or a long time ago (over 5 years, etc.?)
 
WDD said:
OP
1) Ask the admins to either delete this post or change you to "anonymous"
2) Were you on Celexa for a long time or just a few times? Recently or a long time ago (over 5 years, etc.?)
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one year ago
 
Clip4 said:
Kinda tough to unring a bell.
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Right?!?!? Kind of like the rash of Vets that "forgot" to list on block 18 that they were getting disability from the VA for undisclosed medical conditions that would result in a denial letter. Hate to say it, but the FAA will probably look at this as lying....
 
I would recommend going back to your AME and fessing up. You will most likely be able to retain your Class III, but will have to jump through a bunch of FAA hoops.
 
The issue isn't so much the medication as it is the diagnosis the doctor made as a basis for the prescription. Our POA house AMEs, @lbfjrmd and @bbchien , will probably join the thread soon to give you some specifics, but you can probably expect some time-consuming (and possibly expensive) hoops. If your doctor's notes use the word "suicidal" anywhere, it will be VERY difficult to get issued.
 
Half Fast said:
The issue isn't so much the medication as it is the diagnosis the doctor made as a basis for the prescription. Our POA house AMEs, @lbfjrmd and @bbchien , will probably join the thread soon to give you some specifics, but you can probably expect some time-consuming (and possibly expensive) hoops. If your doctor's notes use the word "suicidal" anywhere, it will be VERY difficult to get issued.
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no suicidal tendencies.

just stressed during the divorce. Wife left me for my best buddy
 
anonymous1 said:
just stressed during the divorce. Wife left me for my best buddy
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Wow, I'm sorry. It must have been very difficult to lose your buddy that way. ;)

Kudos to you for seeking to fix your situation. Many pilots would just leave it alone, let the medical expire quietly, and fly with Basic Med. Their greatest risk would be an FAA discovery following a mishap which was serious enough to warrant investigation into their medical history but minor enough that they survived. It's nice to see someone like you doing the honest thing.
 
my take is, nowadays, ignoring it is not a good idea. to many data bases connected with the feds, there is a good chance it will come back to haunt you. i would think that by trying to set it straight before the feds find it would help to show it was an oversight, not a attempt to hide it. as to the way to set it straight, wait for dr bruce or dr lou to chime in and do exactly what they say.
 
system doesn't care nearly enough about class III warriors as the fidgeters on here think. It's the revenue guys they're mostly focused on (2nd and 1st). Let it expire and go basicmed, move on with your recreational life. If you intend on making a living with your medical otoh, different answer from me. Life is grey.
 
unsafervguy said:
my take is, nowadays, ignoring it is not a good idea. to many data bases connected with the feds, there is a good chance it will come back to haunt you. i would think that by trying to set it straight before the feds find it would help to show it was an oversight, not a attempt to hide it. as to the way to set it straight, wait for dr bruce or dr lou to chime in and do exactly what they say.
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True enough about databases, but I'm not sure the chances are that high that it will come back to bite him.

The FAA has no legal justification to research random expired medicals. Heck, they don't even research those databases on active medicals unless there's cause. Once the medical has expired, the issue would likely only come up in an NTSB investigation of an incident where they looked at the pilot's Basic Med form, saw the condition listed, then back-checked to his last class 3 medical. It's not a given that they would even do that unless they had reason to suspect it was a contributing factor. The NTSB could then alert the FAA, but the FAA cannot revoke a medical that's already expired. I'm not even sure they can revoke a Basic Med, considering they don't issue it in the first place, but perhaps they'd send one of the "You might not be eligible...." letters to the airman.

The FAA might take action for the pilot having lied on a federal form, but proving a lie versus an inadvertent omission could be challenging, especially if the pilot had willingly disclosed it on the next federal form (Basic Med). Keeping in mind that simple depression is not one of the conditions that requires an SI prior to Basic Med, would the FAA be motivated to take action? Beats me. There's no reason, and I doubt any real requirement, for a pilot to try to correct errors and omissions on an expired form.

Look at it this way: suppose the pilot's class 3 medical had expired prior to the depression and the Celexa prescription. He'd be perfectly eligible to go Basic Med now and have no requirement whatsoever to advise the FAA about the condition.

In any case, the safest approach from a regulatory standpoint is to disclose everything now and correct the class 3, despite the time, money, and risk of denial. I'm sure there are many pilots who don't do that, though, and just let the medical expire and go on with their lives.

Everyone has to decide their own risk threshold.
 
So now let’s throw a stick in Gary’s spoke

what if Gary just let his 3rd class sunset and then went on basic med

that would be like dividing by zero
 
A tough spot to be in. Since your last medical had a misrepresentation,you can’t just let it lapse and go basic med. you might want to check with one of the docs on this forum.
 
Ok, I read this thread as well as the thread referenced from the prior discussion.

To be clear, is the assertion here that if someone were to fail to disclose an issue - say on question 18, then subsequently transition to basic med - that they are free and clear of the omission on the original medical?
 
Qqqqqqq said:
Ok, I read this thread as well as the thread referenced from the prior discussion.

To be clear, is the assertion here that if someone were to fail to disclose an issue - say on question 18, then subsequently transition to basic med - that they are free and clear of the omission on the original medical?
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Free and clear? No, not "legally", because Basic Med requires having had a valid FAA Medical Class in the past. If that medical was obtained "fraudulently", it could be legal problem down the road.

However, from a practical perspective, if it would for something that would not require an SI, or was essentially a slam-dunk SI, it is extremely unlikely to come back to haunt you. Something that would otherwise need a full psychological work up on? Yeah, that could open you up to legal trouble if it came to light.
 
unsafervguy said:
my take is, nowadays, ignoring it is not a good idea. to many data bases connected with the feds, there is a good chance it will come back to haunt you. i would think that by trying to set it straight before the feds find it would help to show it was an oversight, not a attempt to hide it. as to the way to set it straight, wait for dr bruce or dr lou to chime in and do exactly what they say.
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If you had a class I, or II, I can't say whether or not they check, but the feds don't check everyone with a class III in their "databases"...and don't ask me how I know.
 
Don’t surrender it. Just let it expire. If you get a second medical, come clean.

you made a mistake. Don’t make a second one by explicitly calling out the first. Although, you kinda just did.
 
How do you denounce your medical to switch to basic med?
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Click your heels three times and say,"I denounce thee, I denounce thee, I denounce thee ..." pretty simple eh:confused::p
 
danhagan said:
How do you denounce your medical to switch to basic med?
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Click your heels three times and say,"I denounce thee, I denounce thee, I denounce thee ..." pretty simple eh:confused::p
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I believe you have to do that at night under a new moon and face toward OKC.
 
They used to require sacrificing a goat as well. However now a days, a new oil filter will suffice. Or so I'm told.
 
Qqqqqqq said:
Ok, I read this thread as well as the thread referenced from the prior discussion.

To be clear, is the assertion here that if someone were to fail to disclose an issue - say on question 18, then subsequently transition to basic med - that they are free and clear of the omission on the original medical?
Click to expand...

I guess you could say the same about not filing taxes and waiting for the statute of limitations to expire.
 
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