182 Transition

Supereri

Supereri

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Supereri
So, I'm a 63 hour student, 46 in the 6 months. My checkride is upcoming in a few weeks. I purchased a 1963 182F, but haven't yet flown it. I was far enough along in my training that I decided to just finish up in the 172 I've been training in. But, this means I'll need an HP endorsement when completed and some amount of 182 transition training.

From what I've read the HP endorsement is likely a couple of hours. My insurance only requires 1 hour of dual in the 182. How much time should I realistically expect for transition? Would say 2 hours of HP training in my 182 be enough, or should I expect more beyond the HP flight(s)?
 
It honestly will depends on your own proficiency. But in my experience the 182 is not much different from the 172, a little heavier a little more capable feeling and needs a little more back pressure on landing and care to avoid porpus and to get the flare right..

My checkout was about an hour and then it took me about 3 to 5 to start to "feel" it
 
Meeting the requirement is less relevant than gaining thorough competency.

The amount of time for the transition realistically depends on how you spend that time. If you just fly around site-seeing, the transition will be slow, slow, slow and woefully incomplete. If you focus on the areas where the 182 behaves differently from the 172, then 2 hours may be ample (how busy is your field and how conveniently located is a practice area?).

1. Take-offs (clean versus short-field configurations)
2. Landings (with and without power, different approach speeds and flap settings)
3. Go-arounds (the thing can stand on its tail if you're unprepared)
4. Stalls (power-off can be a challenge, as the nose may wish to drop)
 
Supereri said:
So, I'm a 63 hour student, 46 in the 6 months. My checkride is upcoming in a few weeks. I purchased a 1963 182F, but haven't yet flown it. I was far enough along in my training that I decided to just finish up in the 172 I've been training in. But, this means I'll need an HP endorsement when completed and some amount of 182 transition training.

From what I've read the HP endorsement is likely a couple of hours. My insurance only requires 1 hour of dual in the 182. How much time should I realistically expect for transition? Would say 2 hours of HP training in my 182 be enough, or should I expect more beyond the HP flight(s)?
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For a brand new pilot who has ever only flown one plane, I suggest two flights (one hour each) at a minimum for any new make/model. So plan on at least 2 hours and probably not more than 5.
 
I wouldn’t shy from transition training after just passing the check ride. I’d leave it open ended in my mind and keep booking an instructor until you feel comfortable. It might take a couple hours, it might take more.
 
I assume your goal is proficiency and not simply a 1-hour logbook entry. It really depends on you and the individual instructor. EdFred's proverbial bilking CFI notwithstanding, it's really more about you. Some pick up differences in aircraft almost as easily as driving a different car. Other require a bit more work. Especially that very first transition. I recall one student who had problems switching 172s at first.

The good news is that, along with a Cherokee → Cherokee 235 transition, the 172 → 182 transition is the easiest there is because of the large number or similarities. But moving from a 172, at a minimum you are going to deal with a heavier airframe (especially in the nose-heavy department), substantially heavier flight controls, far more more torque and P-factor when you push that throttle in all the way, basic understanding of constant speed props.

Given the history of bent 182 firewalls, I'm actually a little surprised your insurance requires that little.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Given the history of bent 182 firewalls, I'm actually a little surprised your insurance requires that little.
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I was also surprised, but I've check the docs multiple times and talked with the agent.

I'm certainly not looking for an instructor to just paper whip the HP endorsement and 182 transition. I suspect the answer for me is somewhere between 1 and 5 for basic signoff. I just want to have realistic expectations. I have almost 18 hours in 152 and another 7 or so in ultralights both a long time ago. I will then spend some additional amount of time practicing solo until I'm more comfortable and I let the family anywhere near the plane.
 
I usually recommend about 3.5 hours. 2 hours of take off, landing and pattern emergencies. Controls are heavier, Sight picture is different, Climb outs can be steeper with less time to react if there is a power failure. Often pilots have difficulty landing main wheels 1st, especially with power off landings. Plus more systems to manage in the pattern i.e. Throttle/Prop and Cowl Flaps.

Then I recommend about a 1.5-2 hours round Robin flight to as many close by airports as you can fit it, so you can practice setting different combinations of Manifold Pressure, RPM, and Fuel Flow (Mixture) and also practice transitioning from Climb to cruise and then from Cruise back to landing configuration.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
brcase said:
I usually recommend about 3.5 hours. 2 hours of take off, landing and pattern emergencies. Controls are heavier, Sight picture is different, Climb outs can be steeper with less time to react if there is a power failure. Often pilots have difficulty landing main wheels 1st, especially with power off landings. Plus more systems to manage in the pattern i.e. Throttle/Prop and Cowl Flaps.

Then I recommend about a 1.5-2 hours round Robin flight to as many close by airports as you can fit it, so you can practice setting different combinations of Manifold Pressure, RPM, and Fuel Flow (Mixture) and also practice transitioning from Climb to cruise and then from Cruise back to landing configuration.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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Cowl flaps are easy on this one, (INOP) Horsham STC for fixed cowl claps.

Now, anyone recommend an instructor in the Phoenix/Glendale AZ area?
 
brcase said:
I usually recommend about 3.5 hours. 2 hours of take off, landing and pattern emergencies. Controls are heavier, Sight picture is different, Climb outs can be steeper with less time to react if there is a power failure. Often pilots have difficulty landing main wheels 1st, especially with power off landings. Plus more systems to manage in the pattern i.e. Throttle/Prop and Cowl Flaps.

Then I recommend about a 1.5-2 hours round Robin flight to as many close by airports as you can fit it, so you can practice setting different combinations of Manifold Pressure, RPM, and Fuel Flow (Mixture) and also practice transitioning from Climb to cruise and then from Cruise back to landing configuration.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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Totally agree with this. Flying around in circles for 2 hours doesn't do squat. Touch and goes at an airport doesn't do much more. But repeating the entire lifecycle of a flight: takeoff, cruise, navigation, descent, landing 5 or 6 times in one setting really helps drive it home. I do this with any new plane or even if I'm feeling "rusty" in a plane I'm familiar with already.
 
I agree that doing your checkride in the C172 makes sense since you are more comfortable and experienced with that plane.

C182 has the constant speed prop and cowl flaps. I would go right into your instrument training and get experience wearing the foggles, getting your cross country hours in, unusual attitudes, actual instrument conditions.

Print out all of your airspeeds on a handy index card and laminate that, also your cruise engine power settings. Practice setting the different engine power settings and leaning the mixture. Notice the difference with the higher manifold / lower RPM vs the lower manifold / higher RPM. Know your fuel consumption, etc.

Get some night flying in, can you readily identify airports at night? (I could not until recently). Where would you land in an engine failure scenario, what would you do when you get a flat tire on the runway at a controlled / uncontrolled airport, practice night landings without your landing light, what do you do if a fuse pops, what if your radio craps out? All of these things happened to me (minus the engine out) and I had to learn myself while in flight.

Get the HP endorsement right away, one lesson is more than enough, but practice in perfect weather until your skill set comforts you to playing with more challenging weather, take it in steps.
 
I went from an Archer to a Dakota. The HP endorsement/ checkout flight was a bit over an hour. I felt quite confident in it. The constant speed prop took a few more hours to be completely comfortable with, but "more right rudder" comes pretty easy. I understand 182's are less tolerant of ham-fisted landings, so make sure you have your flare figured out before you kick the cfi out.

Congratulations on the bird. Your own plane is the ultimate freedom, and GA is the ultimate adventure.
 
Addendum: I already had my complex, so the blue knob wasn't something new.
 
You can make your life easier if you get two 5 gal soft plastic water jugs like the ones used for camping. Fill them and put them in the baggage compartment.

I think of them as a combination landing aid and automatic fire suppression system.
 
LesGawlik said:
You can make your life easier if you get two 5 gal soft plastic water jugs like the ones used for camping. Fill them and put them in the baggage compartment.

I think of them as a combination landing aid and automatic fire suppression system.
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I just used trim, and never had an issue.
 
I went from a ton of time in a 172 training and getting my PPL... to a PA28 getting checked out and that took about 3-4hrs to feel comfortable (enough). Then prior to purchasing a PA-32-300 (Six), I did some transition training from the PA28 to it's larger variant, the PA32, and got my high performance endorsement in conjunction with a checkout (at the place renting the PA32) and that took about 3-4 hours overall. At that point, I was comfortable "enough". Enough for what? Well, to go take the plane (this was a rental) for a full day round robin around Florida visiting a number of airports, landing, take-off, etc. and get the remaining hours for insurance requirements (needed 10 in type) so I'd have those prior to picking up our new bird. After all that, I would say I was fine flying, but I was not where I wanted to be to get to consistent landings and being totally comfortable in the plane. None were crazy bad, but not what I was accustom to in the 172 I spent so much time in. That came a little later. So if by "transition", you mean get checked out and be competent enough to land fine etc., 3-4 hours will probably do it. If transition means you're VERY comfortable in the plane, that'll be down the road a little bit. That's my $.02 worth... (I rounded up)
 
Congrats on the purchase! They're great planes. I plan to own mine forever. I had about 275 hours mostly in 172s when I bought it, had the complex, but no HP endorsement, and my insurance company also wanted a single hour checkout. I flew with a local CFI for 1.4 that was a combined transition/endorsement flight. I had to make a short solo flight right after I dropped him off and things felt great. Flew halfway home from Texas with a CFI friend of mine then had to make the rest of the trip solo.

I honestly think it's easier to land than a 172. Definitely be on top of the trim. Yeah there is more weight in the nose, but they're not "nose heavy" if you have it trimmed correctly. On a normal landing I carry a little power farther down than I did in the skyhawk. And everything got better when I stopped trying to look over the nose during the flare and shifted over to the side. Other than that I didn't find it to be very different.
 
The first time you do a touch and go, be sure you have adequate runway space on your left side. ;)

ServoB17 said:
On a normal landing I carry a little power farther down than I did in the skyhawk.
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How much (little) is going to depend on whether the prop is 2 blade versus 3 blade.
 
Congrats on the purchase. Owning your own airplane opens up a whole world of opportunities you never get with renting.

I transitioned from a 172 to a 206 just about a year ago insurance required 10 hours of training. I felt comfortable in about 5, but was happy to do the 10. The 2 things I heard most from my CFI was more right rudder and trim trim trim and trim some more in the flare.

Best of luck
 
Here's another thing about my 182. The weakest thing is the firewall. If you don't hold it off while landing you will bend something. As if to remind you, mine will every now and then shake the nosewheel so violently that it destroyed the wheel pant on the nose gear. The first time it happened it scared me. They call it "shimmy," but that is such a mild and gentle word compared to what I experienced. I think the only Cessnas that don't do that are the taildraggers. I know, McFarlane, rebuild, tire, damper blah blah blah. I've been through most of it, and it's still there sometimes. It even happens when I taxi like a Southwest pilot. The only answer is to keep the weight totally off the nosewheel unless you are under 10 knots. If I forget, it reminds me.
 
/leaving before I say something mean/
 
Make sure your transition instructor has plenty of 182 time.

Landing a 182 is all about being on-speed, all the time. Loaded, it has significantly more inertia than a 172, so be sure to load up the plane near max gross as part of your transition training (probably not the first flight though). Most experienced 182 pilots will cross the threshold at about 63 KIAS and 30 or 40 degree flaps. Not more than 65 KIAS or it *will* float, and that is the set up for landing on the nose gear and bending the firewall.

Also be sure to practice a couple go-arounds with full flaps at the beginning. It is a handful for a few seconds to get retrimmed for climb and slowly retract the flaps.

And speaking of trim...elevator trim is your best friend in a 182. You will use it a lot more than in a 172. You'll also learn to use rudder trim.
 
The first time I checked out in a 182, it was once around the pattern.

What I would do is take a flight in it with an instructor. Do the things you did on your checkride. Slow flight. Stalls. Turns about a point. Short, Soft, and Normal TO and Landing.

You will then have a good idea of how much work you are looking at. You may be fine, you may need a flight or two more to polish.

There is no way to set a number now as to how many hours it will take. It will take what it takes. :D
 
Congrats! I also have a C182F and love it. I bought mine 18 months ago before I even flew one - only flew 152s and 172s before and knew I wanted something bigger. Best decision I made as I got it right before the crazy price hikes. I was also only required to have 1 hour of dual for insurance but agree that +/- 5 hours seems about right to be comfortable. I have 115 hours over 12 active months (panel upgrade, initial annual, kept it in the shop for a while), some long cross country flights, and am working on my commercial rating. I am really getting to know her now. Hope to see you around some day! ...and yes, trim is your friend!!!!
 
All of what everyone said, plus I haven't seen this - there could be differences in how that 182 flies depending on how heavy it is. I'm basing that on Cherokee and Dakota, where it's also more HP and more weight. So W&B can be different, if the heavier plane is either really light or close to gross. Don't know if that's the same in a 182, but I bet one flies a bit differently at full gross than empty. 182 guys please jump in if there's no difference.
 
The nice thing about a 182 is that you don't have to play "Guess your passenger's weight" like the carnival sideshow. You can put 4 regular people in it and still have room for gas.
 
LesGawlik said:
The nice thing about a 182 is that you don't have to play "Guess your passenger's weight" like the carnival sideshow. You can put 4 regular people in it and still have room for gas.
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Where can I find four regular people? Seems like every (male) is 250+ these days.
 
Flying a 182H for a few years now. Prior to that was pa-28 and 172. Plus i took a 15 year break from flying and moved into 182.
1. Nose heavy. Needs a lot of trim on final to avoid a fight.
2. Full power on the go be ready to push forward. Really points to the sky until you get retrimmed and flaps in.
3. Worth going up with instructor hot and heavy. Just to see how it flys.
4. I got used to power on descents to yellow arc. Took me a bit to learn how to slow down more. Even just tooling around seems like you have dial power back quite a bit to get slowed down to safe flap extension.
For me what took the longest was getting used to gps. All previous flight experience didn’t have one. Getting good at buttonology take practice. We just put an Avidyne 550 in and I am still getting used to the buttonology and knowing what the box is going to do.
 
Hey,

Congrats on your purchase and getting ready to take your check ride. I have a 68 182 and I love it. Your time with an instructor can be a couple hours or more, depending on how you feel and your instructor feels. I also transitioned from a 172 and I'm a relatively new pilot with just a couple hundred hours.

A couple things in no particular order and some folks with more experience may want you to do different than what I'm suggesting which is cool. I bet your plane will also fly a little different than mine as I believe your horizontal stabilizer is not as wide as mine.

Get a checklist and use it
On your checklist black out all the speeds shown in knots if your air speed indicator is in mph
Get your checkout / training from an instructor with a lot of 182 time
You'll need to use a lot of right rudder when taking off and you can ease the power in
It will really climb compared to the 172, which is a blast
I like to climb out at 100 mph so I can see other traffic at uncontrolled airports. My DPE suggested this during my check ride.
I flight plan for 15 gallons per hour, as it's easy math and I plan to land with at least 15 gallons
I have bladder fuel tanks and I like to leave the plane with 60 gallons of gas after I fly as I've heard it's bad to leave bladders with little gas
Practice all types of flight, takeoffs & landings with your instructor
When I practice power on stalls I don't use full power as the plane will just keep going.
Practice slow flight (0,10 & 20 degrees of flaps) and just cruise around
Using the constant speed prop and cowl flaps will become 2nd nature
I have a printed list of V speeds taped onto my dash
Charlie-Gumps (carb heat, gas, cowl flaps, mixture, prop, seatbelts)
I say what I'm going to do out loud
I trim a lot and it makes my flying easier
I turn the DG to runway heading when you are taking off and landing
It feels good taking off with 10 degrees of flaps
keep the ball centered
Fly with other pilots in the right seat. You'll have fun, go to lots of fun places and learn stuff :)

Before entering the runway I clear final and clear the runway. I also say: Engine or airspeed problems on the ground pull power and stay on the ground, Engine problems below pattern altitude pitch for 80 and land straight ahead or off to the side, Engine problems at pattern altitude pitch for 80 and turn right or left back to the airport. ( Your best glide speed might be different than mine )


When I takeoff I say & check:
Heels on the floor
RPM's good
Oil pressure good
Airspeed alive
Keep it between my legs
We are airborne

When landing I was having problems with being too fast in the pattern, so I came up with power and speed settings for getting into and during all phases of the pattern. I also check and say "clear final, clear runway" during ever phase of the pattern.

A lot of times I'll come in with no flaps if there is a good cross wind, gusty conditions or high winds down the runway

Have a great time, be safe and you can always fly another day :)
 
Meh...you'll figure it out after the first few times you literally bounce yourself into a go-a-round...or so I've heard...
 
Here's another tip I found useful.

Make note of where on the seat track you drop the seat lock in so your seating position is the same every time. I can't get in a 182 without sliding the seat all the way back. Then I have to move the seat forward to a comfortable position. If your position changes, your sight picture will change. I find that makes landing more difficult.

You should have a seat lock on the rails to make sure that the seat does not slide backwards as you pitch up.

Another thing is that the 182 has a very effective seat elevation mechanism. I am the only one sitting in the left seat, so I crank it up high so the sight picture is like my Sundowner. But when the avionics techs flew it to test out their work, they cranked the seat down. I didn't check it before I flew and didn't notice it when I went to land. I landed at night, and the strut stayed extended because I greased the landing. But that left me with the tail about a foot off the ground, and the sight picture of a tail dragger. When the strut stays up, you lose nosewheel steering. You can use differential braking, but it's not as easy. I could not see to exit the runway. It took a while, but I was able to look out a side window and line up the taxiway lights.
 
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EdFred said:
...Some instructors will bilk you for 10 hours.
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Bilk is right...but good news, I found if you just simply ask them what their typical student takes, you will usually get an honest answer. If they say "they" require you to get 10 hours, move on...BTW, it took me 6 hours for complex, but only because I wasted almost 5 hours at one of the we-require-10-hour-schools. 1.5 for high performance (done separately but within the same month).
 
DFH65 said:
I don't have much 182 time but have flown in them a bunch. It's a 182 not the space shuttle.
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OTOH, many of us forget what it was like to be a relative newbie flying something even mildly different than what we are used to.

Yeah, my 182 transition was a 1-flight checkout (although the school wanted 10 takeoffs and landings). I was still pretty new but it was my 6th make and model. From the right seat, I've seen some people get it really quick and others take much more time to get comfortable.
 
Country Flier said:
Bilk is right...but good news, I found if you just simply ask them what their typical student takes, you will usually get an honest answer. If they say "they" require you to get 10 hours, move on...BTW, it took me 6 hours for complex, but only because I wasted almost 5 hours at one of the we-require-10-hour-schools. 1.5 for high performance (done separately but within the same month).
Click to expand...

I had that happen when getting my complex as well. It was coupled with the Commercial, but the CFI wouldn't sign off the complex endorsement until he signed me off for the check ride. I think I had more dual commercial hours than I did pre-solo dual hours. Worst instructor I had. All he did was talk about getting hours for the airlines.
 
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