Can Airlines Cancel IFR

[midwestpa24]

Yup. FWIW someone there is a weather observer. It reverts to E Surface Area when the C closes. Not G. My guess would be one of the airlines employees, but I dunno. Could be a City employee

May not be a weather observer either. There is no requirement to have one, even at a Class E surface area airport, so long as there is an automated weather system.

 

[luvflyin]

May not be a weather observer either. There is no requirement to have one, even at a Class E surface area airport, so long as there is an automated weather system.

Ok. I thought a human was required to Augment to have a Surface Area. What about Fayetteville, AR, KXNA. It’s a part time C, has ASOS, but goes G at night. Seems I’ve seen lotsa part time D’s with ASOS go G at night.

 

[midwestpa24]

Ok. I thought a human was required to Supplement to have a Surface Area. What about Fayetteville, AR, KXNA. It’s a part time C, has ASOS, but goes G at night. Seems I’ve seen lotsa part time D’s with ASOS go G at night.

My airport is Class E to surface 24/7, and we haven't had human observers in over a decade when the airline stopped providing it. We have an ASOS on the field.

 

[luvflyin]

My airport is Class E to surface 24/7, and we haven't had human observers in over a decade when the airline stopped providing it. We have an ASOS on the field.

Maybe it’s the level of ASOS. I dunno. Some go G, some go E.

 

[35 AoA]

How long ago were those VFR routes? How far apart were the Airports?

Before my time, but within the last couple years. Short routes, though > 10 nm.

 

[aterpster]

During my active airline time we could cancel with 35 miles of the destination airport provided weather was severe VFR. Never did it, though.

 

[clear_prop]

Endeavor did JFK to LGA VFR on a reposition flight awhile back. VASAviation got the audio of the confusion of JFK Tower and NY Tracon.

 

[jordane93]

Endeavor did JFK to LGA VFR on a reposition flight awhile back. VASAviation got the audio of the confusion of JFK Tower and NY Tracon.

Yep. Totally legal. We had to pick up IFR within 50 miles of departure per our FOM but since JFK-LGA is less than that, they were able to go VFR. Really easy way to avoid all the reroutes due to weather. If there were thunderstorms in the area, we would depart and stay at 6-8000ft and get right out while planes were holding on ground for reroutes and spacing. Around PHL or a little south of that, they’d let us climb up to a normal flight level

 

[Palmpilot]

Well whadda ya know, it’s a thang…Pretend VFR…
“…This is, after all, the essence of visual flight. After my experience in Kotzebue, I began to refer to this sort of weather condition as PVFR, which stands for pretend visual flight rules. I define PVFR as: A situation where the meteorological conditions meet the definition of VFR, but conditions are such that there are too few visual references within the range of the prevailing visibility to keep the airplane upright by reference to a visual horizon and to safely navigate. In other words, the pilot is actually in instrument meteorological conditions (IMC). To simplify the definition a bit: PVFR prevails when one is in VFR weather conditions, but can't see anything except the weather…”

Sounds like JFK Jr's last flight.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Yep. Totally legal. We had to pick up IFR within 50 miles of departure per our FOM but since JFK-LGA is less than that, they were able to go VFR. Really easy way to avoid all the reroutes due to weather. If there were thunderstorms in the area, we would depart and stay at 6-8000ft and get right out while planes were holding on ground for reroutes and spacing. Around PHL or a little south of that, they’d let us climb up to a normal flight level

While it might have been "legal" (I contend it isn't), I sure wouldn't attempt it. Who provided the crew with VFR charts, what was the contingency plan if NY approach says "remain clear of the bravo". Too many things to go wrong. Set the brake, get a new strip filed by dispatch and make some more money.

 

[Larry in TN]

While it might have been "legal" (I contend it isn't), I sure wouldn't attempt it.

It was a reposition so likely operated under part 91, not 121.

 

[luvflyin]

While it might have been "legal" (I contend it isn't), I sure wouldn't attempt it. Who provided the crew with VFR charts, what was the contingency plan if NY approach says "remain clear of the bravo". Too many things to go wrong. Set the brake, get a new strip filed by dispatch and make some more money.

He was cleared into the Bravo when he was cleared for takeoff

 

[jordane93]

While it might have been "legal" (I contend it isn't), I sure wouldn't attempt it. Who provided the crew with VFR charts, what was the contingency plan if NY approach says "remain clear of the bravo". Too many things to go wrong. Set the brake, get a new strip filed by dispatch and make some more money.

Word is they got “permission” from dispatch and the captain and dispatcher agreed to launch VFR

 

[luvflyin]

It was a reposition so likely operated under part 91, not 121.

Hmm. So if someone said eff it, I’m just a gonna go VFR, could the company get off the hook by refunding all the passengers fares?

 

[Larry in TN]

Hmm. So if someone said eff it, I’m just a gonna go VFR, could the company get off the hook by refunding all the passengers fares?

There were no passengers.

In 2012 I repositioned a 767 from Miami to Dakar, Senegal to Bahrain, all under part 91. No passengers, no revenue cargo. Relieved us of the part 121 flight time limitations.

 

[luvflyin]

There were no passengers.

In 2012 I repositioned a 767 from Miami to Dakar, Senegal to Bahrain, all under part 91. No passengers, no revenue cargo. Relieved us of the part 121 flight time limitations.

Yeah. I know that flight didn’t have pax. I was just clownin’ around with what if someone did it with a regular fight.

 

[kkoran]

Maybe it’s the level of ASOS. I dunno. Some go G, some go E.

Class E surface area also requires direct communication with ATC.

 

[Busflyer]

While it might have been "legal" (I contend it isn't), I sure wouldn't attempt it. Who provided the crew with VFR charts, what was the contingency plan if NY approach says "remain clear of the bravo". Too many things to go wrong. Set the brake, get a new strip filed by dispatch and make some more money.

Don’t know about Delta but, the Jepp app we use has IFR high, low, and VFR charts included.

 

[Hang 4]

While it might have been "legal" (I contend it isn't), I sure wouldn't attempt it. Who provided the crew with VFR charts, what was the contingency plan if NY approach says "remain clear of the bravo". Too many things to go wrong. Set the brake, get a new strip filed by dispatch and make some more money.

It's 9 nm from JFK to LGA. In Class B the whole way. Not much on a sectional other than antennas.

 

[luvflyin]

Class E surface area also requires direct communication with ATC.

I don’t think it has to be ‘direct’, but yeah, availability of communication could be the difference.