FAA Medical 3rd Class

B

Bigblue

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Aug 13, 2022
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Display name:
van
After 2 years and seven months of trying to get my third class medical ticket I am at the point of giving up.
Four or five years ago I had my Mitro valve in my heart repaired not replace repaired. The FAA medical standards say this is not a problem and is acceptable, but what they don't say about this is that they will require a bunch of test most of which are not covered by insurance so they have all been out of my pocket.
Now here is the problem, I submitted all the test results they requested. I fully anticipated they would issue my medical certificate. After waiting eight months I got a response from them. They wanted another series of test. Submitted the information requested and again I waited for 6 more months before I got a response. They again had a hole list of test they wanted information on, they only gave me thirty days to respond, most of us know to get an appointment with our doctor takes more than unless its and emergency.
I again submitted all the information requested and waited, several months later for a response. This time they were again wanting a series of new test as well as repeating several test that I had already given them the information. I now would have to submit the test results of a sleep study.

The FAA now list sleep apnea as a critical safety issue, even though the FAA files do not show one mishap or crash that could be linked directly to this issue.

Then they said that as of the first of March this year everyone will now need to complete a sleep study to determine if you have a sleep disorder of any kind and I mean any kind. If one is detected you will be automatically denied a medical ticket. I questioned them on this and they said the FAA now considers anyone with some kind of sleep issue to be a sever risk to safety. They consider this a critical issue.
So I am now up against a brick wall, with no way around it. I like a lot of us have a lot of time and money invested in our hobby and for most of us it is a passion to fly.
I would like to know if anyone has any suggestions as to a way around this.
PS. be advised that as of the March first any submitting a application for a third class medical ticket or try to up grade their license will be required to complete a sleep study.
Thanks for your time and consideration it is appreciated.
Van
 
Bigblue said:
After 2 years and seven months of trying to get my third class medical ticket I am at the point of giving up.
Four or five years ago I had my Mitro valve in my heart repaired not replace repaired. The FAA medical standards say this is not a problem and is acceptable, but what they don't say about this is that they will require a bunch of test most of which are not covered by insurance so they have all been out of my pocket.
Now here is the problem, I submitted all the test results they requested. I fully anticipated they would issue my medical certificate. After waiting eight months I got a response from them. They wanted another series of test. Submitted the information requested and again I waited for 6 more months before I got a response. They again had a hole list of test they wanted information on, they only gave me thirty days to respond, most of us know to get an appointment with our doctor takes more than unless its and emergency.
I again submitted all the information requested and waited, several months later for a response. This time they were again wanting a series of new test as well as repeating several test that I had already given them the information. I now would have to submit the test results of a sleep study.

The FAA now list sleep apnea as a critical safety issue, even though the FAA files do not show one mishap or crash that could be linked directly to this issue.

Then they said that as of the first of March this year everyone will now need to complete a sleep study to determine if you have a sleep disorder of any kind and I mean any kind. If one is detected you will be automatically denied a medical ticket. I questioned them on this and they said the FAA now considers anyone with some kind of sleep issue to be a sever risk to safety. They consider this a critical issue.
So I am now up against a brick wall, with no way around it. I like a lot of us have a lot of time and money invested in our hobby and for most of us it is a passion to fly.
I would like to know if anyone has any suggestions as to a way around this.
PS. be advised that as of the March first any submitting a application for a third class medical ticket or try to up grade their license will be required to complete a sleep study.
Thanks for your time and consideration it is appreciated.
Van
Click to expand...
thats not true, there is no requirement for a sleep study for a third class medical.
here is the section of the ame handbook that applies to OSA

If the applicant does not have an AASI/SI or has not had a previous
assessment, the AME must:

o Calculate BMI; and
o Consider AASM risk criteria Table 2 & 3
o If the AME determines the applicant is not currently at risk for OSA
(Group/Box 3 of OSA flow chart), select Group 3 on the AME Action
Tab:
 Notate in Block 60; and
 Issue, if otherwise qualified
 
I don't think the sleep study requirement is that complicated. From what i read it's a screening done by the AME and if they feel like you need it then you'll have to have it but even then it's not a big deal. That is one thing you can get your insurance to pay for. I had to have one as a result of saying I had sleep apnea on my initial medical that was denied for something else. Finally after several years when i reapplied to reopen the file i just went and had a new sleep study and filled out the initial status paperwork after 30 days of CPAP use. As long as you are compliant and your numbers (AHI) are below 5 you're fine from what i understand. So basically it's not the sleep apnea that is disqualifying but it's the untreated sleep apena. All I can say is i didn't realize how tired I was until after i started getting a solid night's sleep.
 
Unfortunately, it is required. The directive was issued as of first of March this year. Check the FAA web site. Since I had a Mitro valve repaired which can cause A-fib they automatically assume you are a candidate for sleep apnea which can trigger A-fib. They have made the determination that sleep apnea, or any sleep disorder is considered a sever safety risk. That means during the sleep study even the slightest indication of sleep disorder is an automatic disqualification for the issuance of a third-class medical ticket. Now studies have shown that anywhere from 9 to 12 percent of the population suffers from sleep apnea. Which means that about 45,000 of the licensed pilots out there will be considered for a sleep study. I know of several commercial pilots who are very upset by this new rule as will affect they ability to earn a living.
The other thing is that even the FAA say that there has never been an accident that can be directly attributed to a sleep disorder. The mystery is why now has it become such a critical issue. I have CDL and can drive a truck with and 82,000 lb. load down any road in the country, but I cannot fly a 1500 lb. airplane. Makes no sense.
AS per there request after I completed the sleep study I submitted the results to them, and the response was to deny my application for a third-class medical ticket again. After again questioning them about this they said the only way that they would reconsider my application is if I submitter as least one year's data on the use of a CPAP machine. At that time, I would again be required to submit to a sleep study and resubmit the results. I don't know about anyone else, but I found it impossible to sleep with a machine buzzing in my ear and a mask strapped to my face. I have spent a lot of time and money to get to this point only to hit a brick wall the FAA. I feel they are playing doctor and trying to predetermine failure before it happens. Way too much over-reach.
After almost two years of multiple tests and in some cases redoing the same test several times, I am at the point of giving up.
The FAA is impossible to deal with.
 
Bigblue said:
Unfortunately, it is required. The directive was issued as of first of March this year. Check the FAA web site. Since I had a Mitro valve repaired which can cause A-fib they automatically assume you are a candidate for sleep apnea which can trigger A-fib. They have made the determination that sleep apnea, or any sleep disorder is considered a sever safety risk. That means during the sleep study even the slightest indication of sleep disorder is an automatic disqualification for the issuance of a third-class medical ticket. Now studies have shown that anywhere from 9 to 12 percent of the population suffers from sleep apnea. Which means that about 45,000 of the licensed pilots out there will be considered for a sleep study. I know of several commercial pilots who are very upset by this new rule as will affect they ability to earn a living.
The other thing is that even the FAA say that there has never been an accident that can be directly attributed to a sleep disorder. The mystery is why now has it become such a critical issue. I have CDL and can drive a truck with and 82,000 lb. load down any road in the country, but I cannot fly a 1500 lb. airplane. Makes no sense.
AS per there request after I completed the sleep study I submitted the results to them, and the response was to deny my application for a third-class medical ticket again. After again questioning them about this they said the only way that they would reconsider my application is if I submitter as least one year's data on the use of a CPAP machine. At that time, I would again be required to submit to a sleep study and resubmit the results. I don't know about anyone else, but I found it impossible to sleep with a machine buzzing in my ear and a mask strapped to my face. I have spent a lot of time and money to get to this point only to hit a brick wall the FAA. I feel they are playing doctor and trying to predetermine failure before it happens. Way too much over-reach.
After almost two years of multiple tests and in some cases redoing the same test several times, I am at the point of giving up.
The FAA is impossible to deal with.
Click to expand...

The whole part about you submitting your sleep data and them denying you again asking for a full year is somewhat concerning to me. The way I understood it from the paperwork I had was to complete a sleep study, if a PAP machine was required to log 30 nights of usage showing at least 6 hours a night for 75% of the time (or something like that-23/30 nights) and to have the sleep doctor submit the initial status report along with my sleep study and cpap data. I've read about the 1 year thing but the way I understood that was after your initial submission you have to give them new documentation every year showing you are still compliant. The only thing I can think of that may be holding you up is the valve being replaced and the things that can happen causing you to have to go through additional hoops. Luckily ( I think ) on mine I have no cardiac history other than my blood pressure being elevated. The whole concept of having to have a full year of data before issuance is silly in my opinion. I get it going forward to keep your medical status but it's silly initially. The 2nd sleep study after a year makes 0 sense to me. I get it if something has changed like a tremendous weight loss etc.. that may have resolved the sleep apnea but if you're on treatment and have documentation showing your compliant on treatment and your sleep apnea is controlled via the PAP device then what is the point in a new sleep study? As far as the machine goes, my machine is quiet so it doesn't bother me. The mask can be annoying sometimes but I'm used to it now so I just do it automatically and deal with it. I also have learned that just because you have 6 hours of data logged every night doesn't mean you are actually sleeping the whole time. You can lay there watching tv with it on and it will log on the machine. I do know that I sleep way better with it than without it and now that I've been on it for a few months my blood pressure has dropped so it's helpful. I hate that you're having to go through this mess. I know I'm still in the process of getting my medical. My entire file is "under review" in OKC and has been t here for almost 2 months so hopefully everything will work out ok.
 
There isn't a way around this. Sleep Apnea and Afib are inexorably linked, and unrecognized A Fib is at least 5 fold increase in the risk for stroke.
You MIGHT NOT have Afib, and in that case it will be exonerative.

Yes, sleep apnea and alertness is a 4x (Northwest Airlines, MSP, and Aloha, @ Honolulu) near miss issue (Near miss, not "event"). But covaryng with Sleep apnea is the heart backing up, the atrium stretching out and AFib unrecognized presenting with stroke.

Medical science isn't "static"......
 
Bigblue said:
Unfortunately, it is required. The directive was issued as of first of March this year. Check the FAA web site. Since I had a Mitro valve repaired which can cause A-fib they automatically assume you are a candidate for sleep apnea which can trigger A-fib. They have made the determination that sleep apnea, or any sleep disorder is considered a sever safety risk. That means during the sleep study even the slightest indication of sleep disorder is an automatic disqualification for the issuance of a third-class medical ticket. Now studies have shown that anywhere from 9 to 12 percent of the population suffers from sleep apnea. Which means that about 45,000 of the licensed pilots out there will be considered for a sleep study. I know of several commercial pilots who are very upset by this new rule as will affect they ability to earn a living.
The other thing is that even the FAA say that there has never been an accident that can be directly attributed to a sleep disorder. The mystery is why now has it become such a critical issue. I have CDL and can drive a truck with and 82,000 lb. load down any road in the country, but I cannot fly a 1500 lb. airplane. Makes no sense.
AS per there request after I completed the sleep study I submitted the results to them, and the response was to deny my application for a third-class medical ticket again. After again questioning them about this they said the only way that they would reconsider my application is if I submitter as least one year's data on the use of a CPAP machine. At that time, I would again required to submit to a sleep study and resubmit the results. I don't know about anyone else, but I found it impossible to sleep with a machine buzzing in my ear and a mask strapped to my face. I have spent a lot of time and money to get to this point only to hit a brick wall the FAA. I feel they are playing doctor and trying to predetermine failure before it happens. Way too much over-reach.
After almost two years of multiple tests and in some cases redoing the same test several times, I am at the point of giving up.
The FAA is impossible to deal with.[/


show me that directive. the post I made was quoted from the guide for aviation medical examiners, the document AME's use to conduct a exam. that document is dated jun 22 2022. it states that a AME must follow the protocol. there is no blanket requirement for sleep study. after following the protocol, they MAY require a sleep study. but there is no requirement for everbody to submit a sleep study. because you have a condition that needs to be investigated it may be required for you, but not for everybody.
Click to expand...
 
bbchien said:
There isn't a way around this. Sleep Apnea and Afib are inexorably linked, and unrecognized A Fib is at least 5 fold increase in the risk for stroke.
You MIGHT NOT have Afib, and in that case it will be exonerative.

Yes, sleep apnea and alertness is a 4x (Northwest Airlines, MSP, and Aloha, @ Honolulu) near miss issue (Near miss, not "event"). But covaryng with Sleep apnea is the heart backing up, the atrium stretching out and AFib unrecognized presenting with stroke.

Medical science isn't "static"......
Click to expand...

Of course now I'm confused on the time element of using the CPAP. I thought, as in my case, you had to get the sleep study and if you had a positive result for sleep apnea that you had to provide 30 nights worth of data showing compliance 75% of those nights with an average of 6 hours per night. I did that an sent in my sleep study, had the doctor send in an initial status report and my 30 day compliance data which showed 30/30 nights and an average of 7 hours with an AHI of 1.4 so to me that would bring me in line for an SI and then annually I would submit my sleep data to keep in compliance.I hope that i'm right on this and I wasn't supposed to provide a year of data.
 
Chris Charanza said:
Of course now I'm confused on the time element of using the CPAP. I thought, as in my case, you had to get the sleep study and if you had a positive result for sleep apnea that you had to provide 30 nights worth of data showing compliance 75% of those nights with an average of 6 hours per night. I did that an sent in my sleep study, had the doctor send in an initial status report and my 30 day compliance data which showed 30/30 nights and an average of 7 hours with an AHI of 1.4 so to me that would bring me in line for an SI and then annually I would submit my sleep data to keep in compliance.I hope that i'm right on this and I wasn't supposed to provide a year of data.
Click to expand...
A year is only for renewals, Chris…
 
bbchien said:
A year is only for renewals, Chris…
Click to expand...
That makes me feel a whole lot better. One more thing I can check the checkbox on while I wait for the FAA decision on the other stuff (7 weeks and counting) since they got all my paperwork)
 
Bigblue said:
I don't know about anyone else, but I found it impossible to sleep with a machine buzzing in my ear and a mask strapped to my face.
Click to expand...
Does this mean you were diagnosed with sleep apnea, put on a CPAP, and are not using it?
 
forks said:
Can you post a link to this directive?
Click to expand...
Nope.. It is, what it is and the AME guide has really become “recent past instruction” only. But there is IIRCmention of in in the current version of the AFib Status report -Initial”
 
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