Oshkosh and Covid

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Is there data that shows deaths are reduced with vaccination? I'm not seeing it....in fact....the rate has increased after 2020 with vaccinations.

X3 Skier said:
Why is there this continuous morbid fascination about the cause of death? If one is concerned about dying from COVID, get vaccinated. If one is still concerned, then withdraw from the world, move to Antarctica, become a hermit. What the hell else can one do?

AHA! Rant about it on POA. THAT WIILL CURE IT AND MAKE IT GO AWAY!!!!!!!!

Won’t it?

Cheers
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Bob Noel said:
oh sure. "pretty dramatic undercount" and "probably about 2/3rds of the actual" -pretty bold statements made without evidence
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I mean, you didn't present anything credible to support your specious claim that we would be surprised by how things were counted. But whatever. Here's some information to support the reality of the undercount.

"A new study estimates that the number of people who have died of COVID-19 in the U.S. is more than 900,000, a number 57% higher than official figures.

Worldwide, the study's authors say, the COVID-19 death count is nearing 7 million, more than double the reported number of 3.24 million."

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/covid-death-toll-higher-than-official-tally/

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...n-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s

https://www.who.int/data/stories/the-true-death-toll-of-covid-19-estimating-global-excess-mortality

https://www.healthdata.org/special-...covid-19-and-scalars-reported-covid-19-deaths
 
X3 Skier said:
Why is there this continuous morbid fascination about the cause of death? If one is concerned about dying from COVID, get vaccinated. If one is still concerned, then withdraw from the world, move to Antarctica, become a hermit. What the hell else can one do?

AHA! Rant about it on POA. THAT WIILL CURE IT AND MAKE IT GO AWAY!!!!!!!!

Won’t it?

Cheers
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We need a ribbon to put on our avatars and posts. :D
 
172andyou said:
.

"A new study estimates that the number of people who have died of COVID-19 in the U.S. is more than 900,000, a number 57% higher than official figures.
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New. LOL.
 
EdFred said:
New. LOL.
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Yeah, I mean, it was new as of May 2021. Just quoting the article directly. The point being is that we have known for a *long* time that the official counts are much lower than the actual deaths.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Is there data that shows deaths are reduced with vaccination? I'm not seeing it....in fact....the rate has increased after 2020 with vaccinations.
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So your assessment is vaccinations cause death by COVID?

Actually it may be undetected Monkey Pox:eek::eek::eek:
 
What if the covid vaccinations cause monkey pox?
 
172andyou said:
Yeah, I mean, it was new as of May 2021. Just quoting the article directly. The point being is that we have known for a *long* time that the official counts are much lower than the actual deaths.
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Dang. I didn't know I knew that. Now I'm worried. How much other stuff do I know that I don't know I know?
 
X3 Skier said:
How about hospitalization rates? Are they up or down? No Clue.

Cheers
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Ours are slightly elevated....but no where near what it was earlier in the year. We are running about 17 and 1-2 in ICU....compared with 60-70 and +20 in ICU.
 
172andyou said:
Yeah, I mean, it was new as of May 2021. Just quoting the article directly. The point being is that we have known for a *long* time that the official counts are much lower than the actual deaths.
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The official numbers *are* above 900,000. and we didnt have 400,000 deaths in the past 3 month.

Edit: I see that was may 2021, not 2022.

A lot has changed since then with reporting especially with how thinngs went in 2020 and 21. I seriosuly doubt we have another 600,000 unreported. Disingenuous to use something that old and project it to todays numbers.
 
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This is one of the more useless threads on POA and that’s saying something probably hard to believe.

Cheers
 
EdFred said:
The official numbers *are* above 900,000. and we didnt have 400,000 deaths in the past 3 month.

Edit: I see that was may 2021, not 2022.

A lot has changed since then with reporting especially with how thinngs went in 2020 and 21.
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I would guess you are right. I bet underreporting has undergone a continuous slide over the COVID-19 timeline.

EdFred said:
Disingenuous to use something that old and project it to todays numbers.
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I didn't see anyone do that and would agree that doing so is improper.


Bob Noel said:
because I don't think we can really get into covid discussions without getting things banned....
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They mostly get banned if people start spouting political nonsense or conspiracy theories. So far, we've been able to stick to the facts.
 
The Beatles predicted all of this in "Helter Skelter." Also Monkey Pox (I've got blisters on my fingers!)
 
EdFred said:
We need a ribbon to put on our avatars and posts. :D
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I suggest a rich brown, the color of monkey poo.

I was in the UK a few months ago. They (and much of Europe, according to my EU coworkers) now regard COVID as pretty much a seasonal virus like many others. Each new variant seems more contagious and less deadly.
 
172andyou said:
So far, we've been able to stick to the facts.
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This is what's so frustrating about the whole COVID 'thing' (not just the PoA discussion) - everyone says "I'm just stating the facts", yet peoples' facts are constantly directly contradicting each other. So, either one (or both) sides of the argument are falsifying their data or nobody knows that the he** they're talking about.
 
CJones said:
This is what's so frustrating about the whole COVID 'thing' (not just the PoA discussion) - everyone says "I'm just stating the facts", yet peoples' facts are constantly directly contradicting each other. So, either one (or both) sides of the argument are falsifying their data or nobody knows that the he** they're talking about.
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And when they don't like your facts they call you a liar.
 
CJones said:
This is what's so frustrating about the whole COVID 'thing' (not just the PoA discussion) - everyone says "I'm just stating the facts", yet peoples' facts are constantly directly contradicting each other. So, either one (or both) sides of the argument are falsifying their data or nobody knows that the he** they're talking about.
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That is just life. Nothing is 100% certain. An essential skill in the modern world is the ability to consume multiple information sources and decide how much weight to give to each source in forming your conclusions. Back in the day, we trusted Edgar R Murrow and Walter Cronkite to sift through the info and tell us what was important, and we trusted the newspapers to give us a deeper dive on facts and opinion. Now the information available has exploded by a factor of thousands, maybe millions. It's pretty easy to get lost in that forest of information and draw invalid conclusions, especially on technical subjects where most people lack the underlying knowledge to fully evaluate sources. Add in malign actors deliberately seeking to mislead or to undermine confidence in adversaries, and it is a recipe for confusion.

WRT COVID, very few of us have the expertise to interpret direct information on subjects like infectious disease or vaccine efficacy, and turn that into simple guidelines for action. So who do you trust to do that interpretation? Well, we have institutions that we spend billions of dollars on to provide that service, such as the CDC and WHO.
 
Unfortunately, those organizations have been highly politicized, etc., and are made up of fallible humans...which would be fine, if other people didn't treat them as if they were made up of some kind of all-knowing gods.
 
Even back in the day some of the most revered "newscasters" had their own agenda and/or worked for those that did. Nothing's changed. Didn't trust them then and don't trust them now. Turned off the news and am better for it. Obviously if something tremendously important comes along it will filter thorough. Ain't got time for all this petty quarreling ...
 
SkyChaser said:
Unfortunately, those organizations have been highly politicized, etc., and are made up of fallible humans...which would be fine, if other people didn't treat them as if they were made up of some kind of all-knowing gods.
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Most of the politicizing has come from outside, by even more fallible humans, including some who deliberately cast doubt in order to further their own political ambitions.

So who is your preferred alternative source for collection and interdisciplinary analysis of worldwide data? Joe Rogan?
 
Ed Haywood said:
Most of the politicizing has come from outside, by even more fallible humans, including some who deliberately cast doubt in order to further their own political ambitions.

So who is your preferred alternative source for collection and interdisciplinary analysis of worldwide data? Joe Rogan?
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I have never listened to, read, or watched Joe Rogan in my entire life. I would explain how I go about learning about the things going on in the world around me, but I think that is getting awfully close to the "no-politics" line, and I've yet to be banned and would like to stay that way. I am not stupid or partisan, if that is what you are implying, though! :)
 
Is it still summer 2020? I don’t believe people are still afraid of Covid, but hey that’s their choice. And people still arguing over Covid Thais far along is even crazier. Especially from people that get in tin vans with an engine and go fly around, which is something most other people consider suicide.
 
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

Asimov "A Cult of Ignorance", Newsweek, Jan. 21, 1980

Add:
We didn’t put men on the moon, advance the treatment of heart disease and cancer, develop the cell phone, or a litany of other accomplishments by putting scientific facts to a vote on the internet.

But this is not new. Google “eppur si muove” to see a good example.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
you could say I'm a member of a cult.....Praise Jesus and give Him glory. ;)
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One person’s religion is another’s cult. One person’s religious beliefs is another’s mythology. It just depends on which side of the fence you’re looking over. Across the board.
 
SkyChaser said:
I would explain how I go about learning about the things going on in the world around me, but I think that is getting awfully close to the "no-politics" line
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If you say you are not partisan, I will take you at your word and retract my Rogan crack. However, I am curious. How is it that explaining how you learn about infectious diseases and vaccines could be be perceived as political?
 
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Ed Haywood said:
If you say you are not partisan, I will take you at your word and retract my Rogan crack. However, I am curious. How is it that explaining how you learn about infectious diseases and vaccines could be be perceived as political?
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Mostly, it's because I knew I would be awfully tempted to react too strongly or poorly and didn't want to do that. :oops: The sad reality is that it is hard to talk about covid-related anything without touching something political. I very much wish that hadn't happened that way, but it did. My ideas about covid in particular were formed from balancing what I read in the news versus what I was seeing in my classroom and hearing from the nurses and doctors I knew in my area who were working with the covid patients that came into the hospitals where they worked.

In general, I read news from "both sides of the aisle", and pick out the facts that match. Usually that is enough to find most of the 'real story'. If it's about something highly technical, I look for doctors, lawyers, engineers, economists, etc. that are qualified to have an opinion about the subject and can help me understand what we know and what is going on. At lot of the time, I think problems come up when things are dumbed down to the "lowest common denominator", and news and public releases don't tell the full story and people who are interested enough in the subject to investigate end up feeling like those things are only telling a very small part of the story.
 
At least there's no shortage sanctimony in covid discussions.
 
SkyChaser said:
The sad reality is that it is hard to talk about covid-related anything without touching something political.
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That is truly sad and truly the reality. And it is not a result of “scientists” - it’s a result of “politicians” and propaganda.

The extension of this situation is for the Internet propagandists to decide 2+2 is 5, not 4, by lying repeatedly and saying their “facts” are just as true as those who claim it’s 4.

A lie one really, really wants to believe…is still a lie. Many people seem to choose to live a life based on lies rather than facts they don’t like.

I’ve believed many things which ultimately proved to be untrue or inaccurate. I have no problem realizing new facts cast a new light. It’s a shame we’re being brainwashed out of such critical thinking.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
So....who is brainwashed? lol :D
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That’s easy: those who don’t consider THEY may be wrong. And are OK with that. Including about a great many things, such as “mythology” ;)

…eppur si muove….
 
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