Formation flying: Georgia pilots near Atlanta?

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machkhatib

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Any pilots in the Atlanta area who want to do some mutual aerial photos? I’ve got a Cherokee 140 based at Cartersville (KVPC) that I’d love to get photographed from the air. If you shoot mine, I’ll shoot yours! :D
 
machkhatib said:
Any pilots in the Atlanta area who want to do some mutual aerial photos? I’ve got a Cherokee 140 based at Cartersville (KVPC) that I’d love to get photographed from the air. If you shoot mine, I’ll shoot yours! :D
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I’m down! I’m up at FGU. When are you thinking?
 
Pinecone said:
Do any of you have any formation flying training???
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You really don’t need to be that close for decent air to air photos. Just talk about expectations ahead of time and come up with a plan. Know how/where you’re going to meet up. Know what you’re going to do if you lose sight of each other. Don’t get too close. Pay attention. Break it off if either party isn’t comfortable.

Formal training while beneficial for this type of thing is far from a necessity.

Jack has a good section on his website about it: https://jackfleetwood.com/briefing-1
 
EdFred said:
Link?

Also 100-200yds between aircraft isn't "formation flying." No one is going out and doing Blue Angels stuff when taking pictures. Phil Swift would be proud.
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Unless you've got a camera lens with serious magnification, you're not getting decent pictures at 100-200 yards. If you do have a long lens, you're gonna need a fast shutter speed to minimize the camera wiggle/blur that comes from even minor turbulence. Fast shutter speeds mean that ugly frozen prop look.

You need a relatively slow shutter speed, a medium length lens, and fairly close spacing to get the pictures you want. And you want to take the pictures within an hour of sunrise or sunset.
 
EdFred said:
Link?

Also 100-200yds between aircraft isn't "formation flying." No one is going out and doing Blue Angels stuff when taking pictures. Phil Swift would be proud.
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I was talking about the early days of formation flying. The survivors taught the new people.

Have you seen 3rd aircraft photos of photo flights?

And in the heat of the moment, people get closer and closer.
 
I was thinking 150 ft spacing, straight and level at 90 knots, certainly not airshow formation flying.
 
Nice, Samuel!

I'm hoping I can find another interested party to meet up with this weekend for a mutual aerial photo shoot. If anyone is interested, feel free to message me and we'll exchange details.
 
Anyone interested in meeting up this weekend?
 
Very cool!

Kind of a shame that formation training is not more commonly available. I have had a few training sessions with military instructor pilots and former fighter pilots, and it was easily the most fun I have ever had flying. Frustrated that I cannot find a regular source to get deeper into it and have regular practice.

Route formation should be sufficient for photo shoots. No need to get into finger formation, turns, joins, crossover, etc. One 30-60 minute lesson should be enough to reach that level of competency. As long as the lead ship flies predictably and the trail ship knows which way to bail, it should be fine. Spotters in both planes are a big help. Dissimilar aircraft (eg high wing and low wing) add a twist that argues in favor of someone more experienced to run the show.
 
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Ed Haywood said:
Route formation should be sufficient for photo shoots. No need to get into finger formation, turns, joins, crossover, etc… Spotters in both planes are a big help.
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That’s exactly what I have in mind. Nothing fancy, lead plane just flies straight and level, 95 knots at 3,000 MSL, pilots on 122.75 for air-to-air communications, and let the passengers take photos.
 
machkhatib said:
That’s exactly what I have in mind. Nothing fancy, lead plane just flies straight and level, 95 knots at 3,000 MSL, pilots on 122.75 for air-to-air communications, and let the passengers take photos.
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Should not be a problem. However, having done that before and after having gotten some instruction, I found it significantly more fun once I had a rudimentary understanding of the principles of formation flight. I wasted a lot of time and fuel trying to work out how to get in position and stay there, until someone showed me the ropes.
 
My brother flys in a formation team with the members having little formation training before joining. Basic A to B flights I don’t see much of a danger. Really renewed his interest in flying when he joined the team. Gave it more of a purpose. Personally, I won’t fly with anyone without any sort of recognized training but that’s me.

 
It’s not complicated but it’s also not intuitive. It looks safe, and it is, if done with proper training. And anyone who thinks “lead” is the easier role is completely misunderstanding what’s all involved.

Just like flying in general or flying IFR, it’s harder than it first looks. Most GA pilots have zero experience flying close to another plane and don’t know how to correct things, what to look for, etc.

I highly recommend getting training and not taking this for granted.

Look to the OSH Mass Arrival groups for training opportunities
 
I generally watch the Osh mass arrivals more for the NASCAR effect than education, but that’s just me.
 
Mxfarm said:
I generally watch the Osh mass arrivals more for the NASCAR effect than education, but that’s just me.
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I’d be curious to know when the last time the US military or anyone else did a 40+ aircraft formation flight since WWII - especially piloted by crotchety old people (such as myself). It’s about getting to an airshow - not putting one on!

The groups all differ in their techniques and discipline. But they’re a good source for simple formation flying training.
 
Met up with Flocker and we had a lot of fun! Kept a reasonable distance at all times. Having a passenger as a dedicated spotter/photographer in each plane added an extra layer of safety.

Here’s a couple video clips of the fun:

Full video (10:44) with original aircraft audio:

Condensed highlight reel (3:17) set to Frank Sinatra’s Come Fly With Me:

Some observations…

1. There were a couple moments when Flocker’s plane passed behind my Piper Cherokee and you can see his plane shake a bit from the turbulence / prop wash.

2. Towards the end of the full video, there was a moment when we lost sight of Flocker’s plane under our wing. I maintained heading and altitude while telling Flocker on the radio that we lost visual. Fortunately he confirmed that he had us in sight, and he popped back above our wing a moment later. Anyway, this is a good reminder of how a low-wing and a high-wing can lose sight of each other.

3. This was my first experience at formation flight and it wasn’t difficult. Brief the plan in advance, approach the lead plane slowly, and communicate.

Edit: For the lost-visual moment, skip to 8:05 in the full video.
 
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machkhatib said:
Anyway, this is a good reminder of how a low-wing and a high-wing can lose sight of each other.
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It's also a good reminder to establish and brief explicit lost comm/lost sight and breakup/rejoin procedures, two of the things that are emphasized in the training many people think you don't need. ;)

Nauga,
who expects the unexpected
 
nauga said:
It's also a good reminder to establish and brief explicit lost comm/lost sight and breakup/rejoin procedures
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We did. In short:

1. Lead is on left. Follower approaches and joins lead on the right.
2. If one aircraft loses sight, and confirms the the other still has visual, communicate and correct.
3. If both aircraft lose sight, lead breaks left, follower breaks right.

In this case, #2 applied. He had sight of me the entire time.
 
I almost bullseyed someone on my first formation join up. Hint - don't be distracted and only "close" in one dimension
nauga said:
Good to hear (seriously). It could be fine tuned a bit but I'm happy you at least considered it. Not everyone does, based on personal observation.

Nauga,
whose formation rule #1 is "Don't hit nauga."
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One of my "Holy ****!" stories from when I had 100 hours was an impromptu join-up that almost went bad. If nothing else, there is a formation flying manual that illustrates many (most?... certainly not all) of the ways to get yourself in trouble. Wish I'd read that manual before that join up.
 
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