Need help from the collective brain trust. What the heck is this?

Salty

Salty

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Salty
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There’s one the slope of every sidewalk into an intersection here in downtown Fond Du Lac. I’m referring to the metal plate with bumps on it.

I have a few guesses, but none of them justify the cost and annoyance of the things.
 
Lets vision impaired people know there is an intersection/street crossing.
 
Those things are a death trap in the rain. I almost ended up in front of a speeding train at a light rail station because of those.
 
PastZTL said:
Why is it stupid?
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this, for one thing.
Sac Arrow said:
Those things are a death trap in the rain. I almost ended up in front of a speeding train at a light rail station because of those.
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the fact that there are plenty of other cues to show the way for another.

I’m not saying accommodations for impaired people are stupid, but that these are stupid.
 
PastZTL said:
What happens to them in rain?
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They get incredibly slippery. And if it's sleeting/snowing, they can never be cleaned of all the snow, etc., and end up freezing into big patches of ice.

ETA: I'm talking about the metal ones. I don't know what the rubbery ones do.
 
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We have those but they're some sort of rubbery/silicone creation. They are not slippery in the rain.
 
That pattern of expansion joints is making my eye twitch.
 
PastZTL said:
What happens to them in rain?
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SkyChaser said:
They get incredibly slippery. And if it's sleeting/snowing, they can never be cleaned of all the snow, etc., and end up freezing into big patches of ice.

ETA: I'm talking about the metal ones. I don't know what the rubbery ones do.
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The plastic ones are like ice as well.
 
We have those, only the metal is painted yellow, and they are more like a curb cut ramp for accessibility. I get that they are for vision-impaired people, but it gives people in a wheelchair a rough patch to navigate.
 
Everskyward said:
We have those, only the metal is painted yellow, and they are more like a curb cut ramp for accessibility. I get that they are for vision-impaired people, but it gives people in a wheelchair a rough patch to navigate.
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Exactly.
 
Everskyward said:
We have those, only the metal is painted yellow, and they are more like a curb cut ramp for accessibility. I get that they are for vision-impaired people, but it gives people in a wheelchair a rough patch to navigate.
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"rough patch" could also be phrased as "difficult patch"
 
It’s an antenna for an electromagnetic radiation device. It alters the reproductive capability of the urban population. I’m guessing.
 
I must be too bored today! Here you go:

B.
Protection for sidewalk openings. Every opening to any vault, coal hole, chute or aperture in the sidewalk over the same shall be covered with a substantial, good and sufficient iron or steel door or doors, plate or plates with other than a smooth or slippery surface, and shall be laid even with the sidewalk so that persons using the sidewalk can pass with safety over the door, plate or plates.
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From here: https://ecode360.com/15560375
 
Yeah, that one looks like some type of utility box cover.
 
Wheelchair users aside, can’t you treat ice on those things the same as you do ice while flying, go around and/or over?
 
So an engineer, a lawyer, and a doctor were all playing golf. There was a group of blind golfers, and the the marshal demanded that the blind group be allowed to advance and play on.

The doctor was awe struck. "This is inspirational, I will commit my services to the blind community for free from hereon."

The lawyer was quick to chime in. "And yeah, I will offer them my services, pro bono, anytime they need them."

And the engineer replied, "Why can't they play at night?"
 
So let me see if I’ve got this straight.

It’s a device for tripping blind people before they enter a street crossing. It has the additional feature of serving as a wheelchair trap. Being steel, it won’t retain heat very long so it will let ice form easily, and it hides well under a pretty thin layer of snow, so in the Wisconsin winters it endangers everyone.

Do have all that correct? This appears to be an ADA-compliance device that was designed by the mentally handicapped, so I guess it’s a win all around.
 
Half Fast said:
So let me see if I’ve got this straight.

It’s a device for tripping blind people before they enter a street crossing. It has the additional feature of serving as a wheelchair trap. Being steel, it won’t retain heat very long so it will let ice form easily, and it hides well under a pretty thin layer of snow, so in the Wisconsin winters it endangers everyone.

Do have all that correct? This appears to be an ADA-compliance device that was designed by the mentally handicapped, so I guess it’s a win all around.
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I think you pretty much have it summed up.
 
Half Fast said:
So let me see if I’ve got this straight.

It’s a device for tripping blind people before they enter a street crossing. It has the additional feature of serving as a wheelchair trap. Being steel, it won’t retain heat very long so it will let ice form easily, and it hides well under a pretty thin layer of snow, so in the Wisconsin winters it endangers everyone.

Do have all that correct? This appears to be an ADA-compliance device that was designed by the mentally handicapped, so I guess it’s a win all around.
Click to expand...
https://idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/Transportation-System/Manuals-Guides-&-Handbooks/T2/E002 Detectable Warnings Synthesis of U.S. and International Practice.pdf

Here is more information on detectable warning surfaces than you’ll ever read but it’s actually a quite well studied device.

A choice quote on the topic of mobility impaired users

“
Hauger et al. (1994) had 30 participants with mobility impairments travel up and down curb-ramps with and without truncated domes.
• A majority felt that they were safer, had better traction, and were more stable on ramps having truncated domes than on concrete ramps.
• Forty four percent of participants said it required less effort to negotiate up and down the ramps with detectable warnings than the concrete curb-ramps; 23% said the reverse.
• Some wheelchair users said it was easier to find and steer toward the up-ramp on the opposite corner when it had the contrasting detectable warning surface.
”
 
but was there any evaluation of the truncated domes being a tripping hazard for elderly people (ya know, the people that tend to shuffle rather than lift their feet)?
 
Again if you just search for “elderly” in that doc I linked you’ll find results of surveys in New Zealand:

“
Positive feedback from people with visual impairments has been received for 10 years.
• People with mobility impairments have a strong preference for Type B warnings.
• No complaints by general public have been received except when tiles are not installed flush with the ground surface.
• General recognition of tactile tiles at crossing points has increased awareness of general population, making these crossing points safer.
• People with multiple disabilities consider them helpful.
• People who are elderly report that they are helpful.”

and from Japan (that country with the oldest population on the planet you know?):

“
Warning and guidance surfaces are well accepted in Japan.
• Many Japanese persons with visual impairments depend on warning and guidance surfaces.
• Persons with mobility impairments accept them.
• There are few complaints from persons who are elderly.
• There are few complaints from bicyclists.”

Furthermore, it’s is entirely likely that elderly people who have issues walking would fall into the general category of having “mobility impairment” for whom there is evidence cited previously that these systems are a benefit. You would have to dig into the specific studies cited to determine that of course, but it would not be surprising. No age cutoff for “mobility impairment” was stated.

If that is insufficient to satiate your intellectual curiosity you are free to seek out further studies on this topic. Would hardly surprise me if there has been further research given the depth summarized in this single document that took 5 seconds of googling to find. Amazing what depth of information is accessible if you actually look for it.
 
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Half Fast said:
So let me see if I’ve got this straight.

It’s a device for tripping blind people before they enter a street crossing. It has the additional feature of serving as a wheelchair trap. Being steel, it won’t retain heat very long so it will let ice form easily, and it hides well under a pretty thin layer of snow, so in the Wisconsin winters it endangers everyone.

Do have all that correct? This appears to be an ADA-compliance device that was designed by the mentally handicapped, so I guess it’s a win all around.
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you forgot to call it racist.
 
It’s amazing what you can learn observing elderly people shuffling when they walk and listening to their comments. Both my mother and father HATED walking on those and HATED being in a wheelchair riding over those
 
They are also an extreme hazard to rollerbladers, and almost impossible to get around them. There were so many of those in my hometown, I ended up using the street more often than not to avoid those because they were so hard to navigate!
 
So people that don't even live where there's snow and ice are the ones complaining about this being slippery when there's snow and ice?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
 
EdFred said:
So people that don't even live where there's snow and ice are the ones complaining about this being slippery when there's snow and ice?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
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To be fair, it's only been 1 winter since I had to deal with all that ice and nastiness. I had some 20 winters where dealing with those things covered in ice was a part of my everyday life for about six or seven months of the year...
 
SkyChaser said:
They are also an extreme hazard to rollerbladers, and almost impossible to get around them. There were so many of those in my hometown, I ended up using the street more often than not to avoid those because they were so hard to navigate!
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One of my guesses was that it was to deter bikes / rollerblades / skateboarding.
 
AKiss20 said:
https://idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/Transportation-System/Manuals-Guides-&-Handbooks/T2/E002 Detectable Warnings Synthesis of U.S. and International Practice.pdf

Here is more information on detectable warning surfaces than you’ll ever read but it’s actually a quite well studied device.

A choice quote on the topic of mobility impaired users

“
Hauger et al. (1994) had 30 participants with mobility impairments travel up and down curb-ramps with and without truncated domes.
• A majority felt that they were safer, had better traction, and were more stable on ramps having truncated domes than on concrete ramps.
• Forty four percent of participants said it required less effort to negotiate up and down the ramps with detectable warnings than the concrete curb-ramps; 23% said the reverse.
• Some wheelchair users said it was easier to find and steer toward the up-ramp on the opposite corner when it had the contrasting detectable warning surface.
”
Click to expand...


Another choice quote:

Laboratory testing
Eighteen truncated dome materials were submitted to laboratory testing under a project sponsored by the Federal Transit Administration (Ketola, N. & Chia, D., 1994). Standard tests were performed for impact resistance, wet and dry slip resistance, wear resistance, high-pressure hot water resistance, and adhesion/bond strength after 55 hours soaking in water.
• Impact tests under room temperature, hot and cold conditions found that, in general, rubber-based and polymer composite materials performed quite well; more rigid products (cementitious or ceramic tile) performed poorly.
• All materials exceeded the minimum value for slip resistance recommended by the Access Board under both wet and dry conditions.
• Wear resistance tested by 30 seconds of sandblasting revealed a wide variety in performance of materials.
• High pressure hot water testing revealed little difference among products.
• Seven materials were found to have poor adhesion/bond strength. Detailed results of laboratory testing are in Ketola and Chia, 1993.


It looks like they tested rubber-ish and cement/ceramic types of materials. The plates under discussion are made of steel (slippery when wet, easily form ice).

No testing of the device under icing conditions or with a layer of snow. Later in the report is a mention that ice and snow can be removed in the same manner as clearing a sidewalk, but unless someone is clearing it every few minutes that’s useless.

And to @SkyChaser ’s point, I didn’t see any testing for suitability for rollerbladers.
 
Salty said:
One of my guesses was that it was to deter bikes / rollerblades / skateboarding.
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Wouldn’t it be simpler to deter the blind and wheelchair people?

I mean, why pick one class of people over another in this diverse, inclusive world?
 
Half Fast said:
Do you mean the plates or the blind people?
:devil:
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:rofl::rofl::rofl: I was talking about the plates. Blind people don't usually block up enough sidewalk and don't usually move super fast, so it's easy to see and avoid!
 
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