What Does the FAA Have Against the Word, “Student?”

[Cogito]

A couple years ago FAA publications twisted themselves into knots trying not to use the word “student” and used the word, “learner” instead. Now it looks as if they’re using the word “customer” in CFI publications. I’m in my late 50’s and love when I get to be a student, I like to think I’m always a learner, even when instructing. Rant over.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

If you give a bureaucrat a budget, they'll spend it.

 

[X3 Skier]

As long as you state your “preferred pronoun” on the correspondence to the FAA on this, it will get higher level of attention

Cheers

 

[DaleB]

Substituting "learner" for "student" seems to be a thing. It smacks of people just changing things purely for the sake of change. I can't imagine why they'd start using "customer" instead of "student". What if you're instructing a family member or friend, for free? Do the principles no longer apply because they're not a customer?

 

[Daleandee]

"A good customer is always learning ... "

 

[GaryM]

Learner, Customer...clearly the FAA is casting about for the proper way to convey the intended meaning.

If only there was a word to describe someone who is working to acquire knowledge and skills. A word widely accepted and understood, perhaps even already in common use?

Dang, I can't seem to come up with it...

 

[X3 Skier]

Wait a minute, how can you teach a customer anything since “The Customer is always right!”?

Cheers

 

[Bob Noel]

Learner, Customer...clearly the FAA is casting about for the proper way to convey the intended meaning.

If only there was a word to describe someone who is working to acquire knowledge and skills. A word widely accepted and understood, perhaps even already in common use?

Dang, I can't seem to come up with it...

shades of Galaxy Quest:


GWEN


Well, Alex, at least you had a PART. Okay? You had a character people loved! I mean, my TV Guide interview was six paragraphs about my boobs and how they fit into my suit. No one even bothered to ask me what I DO on the show.

FRED

You had the, Wait, wait I'll think of it...

GWEN (RESIGNEDLY)

I repeated the computer, Fred.

 

[Brad Z]

A student pilot is a type of pilot certificate. See 14 CFR 61.5(a)(1)(i).

They did it to differentiate a person who is receiving training but holds a pilot certificate other than a student pilot certificate.

not saying it was necessary, but that’s why you see terms like “learner”.

Curious, where did you see the FAA use “customer”? Wouldn’t seem applicable to instruction was not provided without compensation from the learner.

 

[GaryM]

shades of Galaxy Quest:


I repeated the computer, Fred.

That was a great scene.

 

[nauga]

A student pilot is a type of pilot certificate. See 14 CFR 61.5(a)(1)(i).

They did it to differentiate a person who is receiving training but holds a pilot certificate other than a student pilot certificate.

If they're that concerned people misunderstanding 'student' you'd think they give some attention to pilot in command as compared to pilot flying.

Nauga,
and another FLAILEX

 

[Brad Z]

If they're that concerned people misunderstanding 'student' you'd think they give some attention to pilot in command as compared to pilot flying.

Nauga,
and another FLAILEX

Ha ha... don't think that it hasn't been brought up. Problem there is that both PIC definitions are bound in regulation, so fixing it requires rulemaking. That's a whole 'nother hornets nest to stir up.

 

[dmspilot]

A student pilot is a type of pilot certificate. See 14 CFR 61.5(a)(1)(i).

They did it to differentiate a person who is receiving training but holds a pilot certificate other than a student pilot certificate.

not saying it was necessary, but that’s why you see terms like “learner”.

Curious, where did you see the FAA use “customer”? Wouldn’t seem applicable to instruction was not provided without compensation from the learner.

Thank goodness. Normally in English, we do not have words that have multiple meanings depending on context.

 

[Half Fast]

A student pilot is a type of pilot certificate. See 14 CFR 61.5(a)(1)(i).

They did it to differentiate a person who is receiving training but holds a pilot certificate other than a student pilot certificate.

not saying it was necessary, but that’s why you see terms like “learner”.

Curious, where did you see the FAA use “customer”? Wouldn’t seem applicable to instruction was not provided without compensation from the learner.

Uh huh. Whaddaya wanna bet that the student pilot ticket becomes a “Learner’s Permit” next?

 

[Clip4]

The plot thickens. Many years ago the FAA started calling flight instructors authorized instructors. What is the evil empire up too.

 

[Half Fast]

What is the evil empire up too.

Evil, of course.

 

[TommyG]

They will always be students, I really don’t care what the FAA wants to call them. Just like it will always be a BFR.

 

[nauga]

Just like it will always be a BFR.

It's NOT a BFR! It's a flight review you have to get every two years! Wait a minute...

Nauga,
in need of term limits

 

[Brad Z]

The plot thickens. Many years ago the FAA started calling flight instructors authorized instructors. What is the evil empire up too.

We'll, the FAA could just use the term used in regulation, "persons receiving instruction from an authorized instructor" but "learner" sounds a lot user to describe the same thing.

 

[Cogito]

Curious, where did you see the FAA use “customer”? Wouldn’t seem applicable to instruction was not provided without compensation from the learner.

Just did my CFI refresher course and it’s all over the FAA material.

 

[murphey]

As long as you state your “preferred pronoun” on the correspondence to the FAA on this, it will get higher level of attention

Cheers

me/myself/I

 

[Brad Z]

Just did my CFI refresher course and it’s all over the FAA material.

FIRCs are not FAA, they are done by FIRC providers. Who was your FIRC done by?

 

[kath]

I just did my FIRC with American Flyers, and they used "student" pretty much throughout.

This is the first I'm hearing about the "customer" thing.

 

[IK04]

Henceforth, all my students will be referred to as "victims."

 

[Racerx]

They also changed cockpit to flight deck, man made to manufactured, and repairman to technician to "create a more inclusive environment."

 

[iamtheari]

Henceforth, all my students will be referred to as "victims."

“Potential victims” has a nice ring to it and is more fair to the lucky survivors.

We'll, the FAA could just use the term used in regulation, "persons receiving instruction from an authorized instructor" but "learner" sounds a lot user to describe the same thing.

PRIFAI rolls off the tongue. We need to return to the glory days of government-by-acronym.

me/myself/I

is/eum/eius

 

[EdFred]

man made to manufactured

I'm still offended.

 

[Cogito]

I just did my FIRC with American Flyers, and they used "student" pretty much throughout.

This is the first I'm hearing about the "customer" thing.

I did mine with John and Martha, my plan is to use a different company for each FIRC, maybe fewer of my blind spots will be missed. You and Brad may be correct, my beef is with KingSchools, please disregard this entire thread. ~~~~~

 

[iamtheari]

I'm still offended.

Me too. The etymology of manufacture comes from making things with your hands, and that’s just not true most of the time.

 

[Brad Z]

I did mine with John and Martha, my plan is to use a different company for each FIRC, maybe fewer of my blind spots will be missed. You and Brad may be correct, my beef is with KingSchools, please disregard this entire thread. ~~~~~

We'll that explains it! Still a fun thread though.

 

[X3 Skier]

A student pilot is a type of pilot certificate. See 14 CFR 61.5(a)(1)(i).

They did it to differentiate a person who is receiving training but holds a pilot certificate other than a student pilot certificate.

Why was it necessary to differentiate? (Other than to use up unobligated funds.) Who really cares?

Cheers

 

[MauleSkinner]

Why was it necessary to differentiate? (Other than to use up unobligated funds.) Who really cares?

Cheers

Those who are not studs are offended.

 

[Brad Z]

Why was it necessary to differentiate? (Other than to use up unobligated funds.) Who really cares?

Cheers

It happened in conjunction with an update to the Aviation Instructors Handbook, with input from industry.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...ehind-the-faas-switch-from-student-to-learner

 

[MauleSkinner]

It happened…with input from industry.

Same with the TALPA fiasco.

 

[dmspilot]

 

[DaleB]

A student pilot is a type of pilot certificate. See 14 CFR 61.5(a)(1)(i).

They did it to differentiate a person who is receiving training but holds a pilot certificate other than a student pilot certificate.

Who cares?? If I have a Private Pilot certificate, and I'm taking instruction from a CFI for whatever reason, I'm still a student. The fact that I don't hold a student pilot certificate is immaterial. If I go back to college, would I not be a student there again? I know, I know... they're using that idiotic term "learner" everywhere now.

Some days I want to live forever; some days I can see the plot line to Idiocracy and am happy I'll be dead before Not Sure becomes President.


Oh, wait.

 

[Palmpilot]

Substituting "learner" for "student" seems to be a thing. It smacks of people just changing things purely for the sake of change. I can't imagine why they'd start using "customer" instead of "student". What if you're instructing a family member or friend, for free? Do the principles no longer apply because they're not a customer?

In stores, "customers" have been replaced with "guests."

If I'm a guest, where's my bed?

 

[Palmpilot]

A student pilot is a type of pilot certificate. See 14 CFR 61.5(a)(1)(i).

They did it to differentiate a person who is receiving training but holds a pilot certificate other than a student pilot certificate.

not saying it was necessary, but that’s why you see terms like “learner”.

Curious, where did you see the FAA use “customer”? Wouldn’t seem applicable to instruction was not provided without compensation from the learner.

"I've noticed CFIs using the term "client" lately.

 

[danhagan]

Wait a minute, how can you teach a customer anything since “The Customer is always right!”?

Since I'm now a "customer" and I'm always right ... can I just show up and pick up my next rating without testing?

 

[Palmpilot]

me/myself/I

I prefer "it."