Long XC for CPL

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Gordon Freeman

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I’m just about done with my part 61 CPL requirements. Checkride scheduled & written passed, just perfecting my maneuvers and looking to do that long cross-country. Would love a confirmation that the following flight will meet the requirements of that long XC.

The flight will be solo. HPN -> N40 (65nm). Full stop landing and lunch. Then N40 -> ABE (22nm), full stop landing. Then ABE -> BTV (251nm). Full stop landing at BTV, and I’m looking to spend the night there (Burlington, VT), and fly back the next day.

Total distance: 337nm, 3 full stop landings, and that last leg is 251nm.

Unless I’m missing something, this looks valid? No requirement that I return to the original departure airport on the same day, so spending the night in BTV seems fine?

It’s an expensive flight so I just want to double check I’m not missing anything here. Thanks guys.
 
Looks like a fun flight! That should work. Correct, there is nothing that says round trip the same day. The one I used was over a long weekend.
 
One of your airports has to be more than 250nm from the point of origin. None of the airports listed meet that requirement if you start logging the flight from HPN. It matters not that you have a leg of more than 250nm. Now technically you could fly to ABE and make that your point of origin then go to N40, BTV, and finish at HPN.
 
HPN to BTV is only 205nm.

Log it so ABE is your original point of departure, land somewhere else on the return trip, and you should be fine; i.e. ABE — BTV — XXX — HPN, where XXX could be pretty much anywhere. No requirement the flight is all in one day. Also no requirement to return to the origin.
 
Always surprised me that people build the hours to hit that 250 and don’t end up with these XCs knocked out, are people just flying in circles to build that experience for the CPL?
 
Jackk said:
Always surprised me that people build the hours to hit that 250 and don’t end up with these XCs knocked out, are people just flying in circles to build that experience for the CPL?
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I always had friends/family aboard the long trips. Or the long trip was a simple out&back.
 
dmspilot said:
HPN to BTV is only 205nm.

Log it so ABE is your original point of departure, land somewhere else on the return trip, and you should be fine; i.e. ABE — BTV — XXX — HPN, where XXX could be pretty much anywhere. No requirement the flight is all in one day. Also no requirement to return to the origin.
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That’s a very valid point. Thank you for your suggestion. You’re absolutely right about the point of origin.
 
Jackk said:
It doesn’t have to be all on the same day you know?
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If not the same day, depending on the DPE, it should be pretty close to the next day or the same weekend. Local DPE says the longer the time in between flights the less likely he is to consider it "a flight."
 
EdFred said:
If not the same day, depending on the DPE, it should be pretty close to the next day or the same weekend. Local DPE says the longer the time in between flights the less likely he is to consider it "a flight."
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Yes

Thinking back, I had a bunch of multi state flights with friends, I don’t recall needing to worry about the XC stuff, if you’re going to pay for the hours you might as well go somewhere was my thought
 
Interestingly your original flight would qualify under Part 141 but not Part 61. As others said, with a minor modification or two you can make it work. Did you read the requirement carefully before asking others to comment on your plan?

edit: Although I was under Part 141 I chose a plan that would qualify under both parts just in case (KANP KGON KFRG KANP).
 
Jackk said:
Thinking back, I had a bunch of multi state flights with friends, I don’t recall needing to worry about the XC stuff
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Uh... 61.129a says it has to be solo.
 
dmspilot said:
HPN to BTV is only 205nm.

Log it so ABE is your original point of departure, land somewhere else on the return trip, and you should be fine; i.e. ABE — BTV — XXX — HPN, where XXX could be pretty much anywhere. No requirement the flight is all in one day. Also no requirement to return to the origin.
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Heritage at BTV is probably the best FBO in the US, but Burlington is a little crazy right now on mask and shots stuff, so downtown sucks
 
Mine was over the course of three days. Four actually, but the requirements were met on the third day. Full round trip straight line distance was about 1000 miles. I really could have met the requirement outbound or inbound, but it wasn't planned as a commercial qualification flight so I didn't toss in an extra landing,
 
Jackk said:
Always surprised me that people build the hours to hit that 250 and don’t end up with these XCs knocked out, are people just flying in circles to build that experience for the CPL?
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I was in that boat as well when I decided to pursue my commercial. I had over 100 hours of XC at that point. I had XC of up to 1,000 miles. I had solo XCs of various distances. I had XC with multiple stops. But I didn't have a solo, 250+ mile, multiple stop XC that I could count towards the commercial requirement. So I took a day off work, rented a Warrior, and went flying. Problem solved.

Same with the 10 solo night landings at a towered airport. I had lots of night landings. I had lots of landings at a towered airport. I had lots of solo landings. But in all my years, I had only managed to land solo at night at a towered airport one time. I couldn't believe it when I went looking for it.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I was in that boat as well when I decided to pursue my commercial. I had over 100 hours of XC at that point. I had XC of up to 1,000 miles. I had solo XCs of various distances. I had XC with multiple stops. But I didn't have a solo, 250+ mile, multiple stop XC that I could count towards the commercial requirement. So I took a day off work, rented a Warrior, and went flying. Problem solved.

Same with the 10 solo night landings at a towered airport. I had lots of night landings. I had lots of landings at a towered airport. I had lots of solo landings. But in all my years, I had only managed to land solo at night at a towered airport one time. I couldn't believe it when I went looking for it.
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Same here on both counts. Those requirements were hard to meet because I fly cross-country to go places. A cross-country with two stops would have to be over 1,000 nm even in the Arrow, more like 2,000 nm with the RV-14 or 310. I had plenty of solo landings at night at towered airports, but almost no solo night takeoffs at them because I always flew to a towered airport at night so I could spend the next day there and fly home before dark. I ended up doing a long trip in the Cub for the XC and making a special trip to make ten laps in the pattern at the nearest towered airport that was operating at “night.”
 
mine was KSJC (san jose ca) to KGKY (arlington tx) i think that met the 250 mile requirement......
 
iamtheari said:
A cross-country with two stops would have to be over 1,000 nm even in the Arrow
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My long XC for my CSEL was in an Arrow and was 1029nm, KRAS-1T8-KJLN-KDPA .. the way back from my vacation. That was actually early June of last year now that I think about it.
 
Just did my solo X Country. KRYY to LOU to KBRY back to KRYY. Three landings, and first leg was 251 nm. The fun part was that while I wanted to rent the 182 it wasn't open, so I flew in the 172. Seven hours in the log book - yeah, little bit of wind there. Long day.
 
Mine was over 1200 nm away from the departure point, spent 5 days visiting, and returned. Landing was a must, because I needed fuel both ways. Not a short flight in a Warrior.
 
WDD said:
Just did my solo X Country. KRYY to LOU to KBRY back to KRYY. Three landings, and first leg was 251 nm. The fun part was that while I wanted to rent the 182 it wasn't open, so I flew in the 172. Seven hours in the log book - yeah, little bit of wind there. Long day.
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Isn't KRYY to KLOU 258 nm? Still qualifies though.
 
I decided to write to my DPE and ask him about doing this flight over the span of two days. One of my CFIs says it shouldn't matter. Another one say better to be sure.

On a separate topic, another requirement for CPL is a daytime XC flight of 100nm or more, and lasting 2 hours in duration, with a flight instructor. I made this flight as part of my PPL requirements. However, my CFI says you cannot use the same XC flight. I'm a bit puzzled on this. I don't want to ask the DPE another question for fear of looking like an idiot.

"One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;"

If I had flown that flight two years ago as part of my PPL requirements, why should I fly it again for my CPL requirements? I'd love to hear your feedback here guys.
 
Amateurs. Mine was over 4400nm and took 12 days and an oil change.
(OK, I only used a single day out of that trip. NM == > TX ==> OK x 2)
 
Gordon Freeman said:
I decided to write to my DPE and ask him about doing this flight over the span of two days. One of my CFIs says it shouldn't matter. Another one say better to be sure.

On a separate topic, another requirement for CPL is a daytime XC flight of 100nm or more, and lasting 2 hours in duration, with a flight instructor. I made this flight as part of my PPL requirements. However, my CFI says you cannot use the same XC flight. I'm a bit puzzled on this. I don't want to ask the DPE another question for fear of looking like an idiot.

"One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;"

If I had flown that flight two years ago as part of my PPL requirements, why should I fly it again for my CPL requirements? I'd love to hear your feedback here guys.
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I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this one but you didn't respond to my question above yet which, as it turns out, is highly relevant, so I'll refer you to it again. The hint is to read the entire requirement, not just the line you are focused on.
 
Gordon Freeman said:
I decided to write to my DPE and ask him about doing this flight over the span of two days. One of my CFIs says it shouldn't matter. Another one say better to be sure.

On a separate topic, another requirement for CPL is a daytime XC flight of 100nm or more, and lasting 2 hours in duration, with a flight instructor. I made this flight as part of my PPL requirements. However, my CFI says you cannot use the same XC flight. I'm a bit puzzled on this. I don't want to ask the DPE another question for fear of looking like an idiot.

"One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;"

If I had flown that flight two years ago as part of my PPL requirements, why should I fly it again for my CPL requirements? I'd love to hear your feedback here guys.
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Because one references 61.107 and the other references 61.127, that's why.
 
RingLaserGyroSandwich said:
Isn't KRYY to KLOU 258 nm? Still qualifies though.
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U are right. I knew it was barely enough, just mis remembered exactly how much. For my PPL it was 51 nm. KRYY to KPYP.

BTW - how did you know the mileage between KRYY and KLOU off the top of your head? Are you one of those super memory card counter types? :).
 
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RingLaserGyroSandwich said:
I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this one but you didn't respond to my question above yet which, as it turns out, is highly relevant, so I'll refer you to it again. The hint is to read the entire requirement, not just the line you are focused on.
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Point taken. Looks like I'll be doing the daytime VFR XC flight again for CPL, having already done it for PPL, and about a dozen times solo. Not sure I understand FAAs logic here, but then again, many of their regulations have none.
 
Gordon Freeman said:
Point taken. Looks like I'll be doing the daytime VFR XC flight again for CPL, having already done it for PPL, and about a dozen times solo. Not sure I understand FAAs logic here, but then again, many of their regulations have none.
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You're supposed to be receiving training per 61.127 during the flight. I don't know why it's different training (content wise) than PPL but it needs to be logged as such.
 
WDD said:
U are right. I knew it was barely enough, just mis remembered exactly how much. For my PPL it was 51 nm. KRYY to KPYP.

BTW - how did you know the mileage between KRYY and KLOU off the tip of your head? Are you one of those super memory card counter types? :).
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Avweb. Distance between any 2 airports.
Foreflight. same
WingX. same
Garmin pilot. same.
Paper sectional. Measure the distance. but that takes more time.
 
jsstevens said:
You're supposed to be receiving training per 61.127 during the flight. I don't know why it's different training (content wise) than PPL but it needs to be logged as such.
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I think there are some subtle but important differences in the instructional techniques used on the two flights.

Private dual cross-country: "That looks like your first landmark. We're a bit to the left, so let's talk through how not to
get lost before the next one."

Commercial dual cross-country: "How are you still getting lost at this point? I hope you wrote down the number for that truck driving school we saw."
 
Gordon Freeman said:
Point taken. Looks like I'll be doing the daytime VFR XC flight again for CPL, having already done it for PPL, and about a dozen times solo. Not sure I understand FAAs logic here, but then again, many of their regulations have none.
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So I'm still staring at my FAR AIM without luck. 61.129 part 2 states "PIC, part 4 states "solo or PIC". Part 3 iii (day time X Country 100 nmiles) does not state either solo nor PIC. Part 3 states 20 hours of Training.

So, why doesn't the PPL training that had 2 hours and 100 nmiles count?
 
murphey said:
Avweb. Distance between any 2 airports.
Foreflight. same
WingX. same
Garmin pilot. same.
Paper sectional. Measure the distance. but that takes more time.
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Yes, but without looking at all of those sources (and who would just responding to a post) how would you know off the top of your head what the distance is??
 
WDD said:
Yes, but without looking at all of those sources (and who would just responding to a post) how would you know off the top of your head what the distance is??
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He didn't. He looked it up. I look up info all the time when responding. It took me 19 seconds (rounded and timed with stopwatch) to open up a new tab on firefox, log into 1800wxbrief, click on the map, punch in RYY and LOU and get the result. You posted at 10:48, he posted at 1:20. That gave him about 2.5 hours to get the info, which is about 2.5 hours more than needed.
 
I need to find the regulations from 1978 to see what the requirements were then, because I remember different rules when I did my long XC.

Is there an archive somewhere?
 
Gordon Freeman said:
Point taken. Looks like I'll be doing the daytime VFR XC flight again for CPL, having already done it for PPL, and about a dozen times solo. Not sure I understand FAAs logic here, but then again, many of their regulations have none.
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Do you mean you're flying to the same airport all these times? Why?
 
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