Annual Fees?

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Roju

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Roju
Good evening everyone. I was hoping I could get some clear (non government) answers on the annual registration. From my research, it appears as though it's so confusing, I have no idea what they heck they're talking about. Sad part is, I have a Doctorate in Computer Science.

Basically, I can figure out complex calculations, then design, and build, highly complex electrical components to route satellite signals around the planet, but I can't understand how much I'll be charged annually for a private plane. I'm not looking for exact numbers, just a rough guesstimate on annual fees, and was hoping I could get some help with it. Is there an equation to solve this?

Let's see if I can fill in as many variables as possible in hopes that someone could provide some insight. I haven't purchased a plane yet, still in the shopping stage, and don't want to get in over my head without knowing what I'm getting into.

For a rough guess, let's say:
Plane Value: $50,000 USD
Plane Age: 1970 (55 years old)
State/County: California/Alameda County (yeah...I know, land of taxes)

Any assistance other than "don't buy one" would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
 
I'm in Canada, land of even more taxes and the annual "fees" aren't that much. Would surprise me if it was more in the U.S. even being in California. We pay a one time sales tax on planes, percentage varies depending on province but usually somewhere between 10% and 15%. We pay a one time registration fee of I believe $120 and the only annual fee we pay is around $100 for ATC services. Your actual cost comes from all the other things, gas, annuals, oil changes, etc. This will vary widely from one owner to the next. It'll come down to how much will you fly, how well is the plane maintained, how much upgrades do you want, how much does parking/hangar cost at your field (I paid as little as $150 per month for hangar to as much as $400 per month for outdoor parking space - it depends on your airport) and a ton of other variables that you mostly control.

Someone on this forum once said that the purchase price of a plane is the down payment, everything else is your actual cost. I agree with that statement. However, I'd never tell you "don't buy one". I'm happy I own my plane, can go flying whenever I want, know that me and my family are the only ones sitting and traveling in that plane and that is priceless to me.
 
Hangar rent depends on where you are.
State taxes depends on where you are.
Fuel, oil, maintenance depends on what you fly and how much you fly it.
Insurance… see above.
Annual inspection depends on what’s broken since the last one.
Essentially nothing to the FAA. We do have an annual iFly GPS subscription that keeps our charts up to date, that’s $120 or so.

In my case… 170 per month for a T-hangar. 1400 a year for insurance. It’s an experimental, so we do our own maintenance - but parts and supplies average a couple grand per year. Our total cost to fly, including engine overhaul reserve, is about $35 per hour. My numbers will be on the low to very low side of what you’ll hear; we fly an experimental light sport that burns 91-93 octane pump gas. California is going to be way, WAY more expensive. If you buy a typical 172/Cherokee your per hour operating cost will be triple what mine is.
 
I've got all the numbers behind the gps subscription, hanger, annual inspection, maintenance, insurance, and such, I'm just lost when it comes to annual registration fee. I can go online at the California DMV website and see my Harley costs me $215 a year, my Hayabusa costs me $208 a year, even my boat is easy to calculate at roughly $16 every 2 years, but aviation stuff isn't clear. I've read there's a $5 fee for holding the "N" registration number, but I know that can't be all. There's no way, ESPECIALLY in California, that registration fee is only $5 a year.
 
Roju said:
I've got all the numbers behind the gps subscription, hanger, annual inspection, maintenance, insurance, and such, I'm just lost when it comes to annual registration fee. I can go online at the California DMV website and see my Harley costs me $215 a year, my Hayabusa costs me $208 a year, even my boat is easy to calculate at roughly $16 every 2 years, but aviation stuff isn't clear. I've read there's a $5 fee for holding the "N" registration number, but I know that can't be all. There's no way, ESPECIALLY in California, that registration fee is only $5 a year.
Click to expand...
If you are worried about the registration fees, maybe airplane ownership is not a good idea.
 
Roju said:
Good evening everyone. I was hoping I could get some clear (non government) answers on the annual registration. From my research, it appears as though it's so confusing, I have no idea what they heck they're talking about. Sad part is, I have a Doctorate in Computer Science.

Basically, I can figure out complex calculations, then design, and build, highly complex electrical components to route satellite signals around the planet, but I can't understand how much I'll be charged annually for a private plane. I'm not looking for exact numbers, just a rough guesstimate on annual fees, and was hoping I could get some help with it. Is there an equation to solve this?
Click to expand...

That's part of your problem right there, the part that's bolded.
No, there is no "equation" for an annual inspection unless we know what kind of plane, what kind of shape it's in and which shop you take it to. Then we could give you some rough guidlines on what it may cost for the inspection. Let us know what plane you're thinking of, a Cherokee or Skyhawk would be much different from a Bonanza.
Registration fees are set at the federal level, not by CA. Although CA may have some other State registration fee on top of the Federal one. Registration fees have nothing to do with the annual inspection which determines if your plane is airworthy, and what it may take to fix things.
Planes are just like cars in that things break, fail and wear out and equations and formulas have a hard time taking that into account.
 
The bigger question is to plan as much as possible for the unpredictable, and have a cash reserve. Even the predictable costs are not set in stone, especially with inflation.

The cost of registration is going to be small compared to everything else.

BTW - Registration is good for 3 years, not annual.
 
Roju said:
Good evening everyone. I was hoping I could get some clear (non government) answers on the annual registration. From my research, it appears as though it's so confusing, I have no idea what they heck they're talking about. Sad part is, I have a Doctorate in Computer Science.

Basically, I can figure out complex calculations, then design, and build, highly complex electrical components to route satellite signals around the planet, but I can't understand how much I'll be charged annually for a private plane. I'm not looking for exact numbers, just a rough guesstimate on annual fees, and was hoping I could get some help with it. Is there an equation to solve this?

Let's see if I can fill in as many variables as possible in hopes that someone could provide some insight. I haven't purchased a plane yet, still in the shopping stage, and don't want to get in over my head without knowing what I'm getting into.

For a rough guess, let's say:
Plane Value: $50,000 USD
Plane Age: 1970 (55 years old)
State/County: California/Alameda County (yeah...I know, land of taxes)

Any assistance other than "don't buy one" would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
many highly educated people fluent in complex issues, tend to make the simple, complex.
 
Morgan3820 said:
If you are worried about the registration fees, maybe airplane ownership is not a good idea.
Click to expand...

These are the unhelpful answers I didn’t expect from this site. I want to know about it because I hate surprises. I’ve spent a lot of time in Japan. A few years ago I had a white 2015 BMW X5, it was a great little SUV and fun to drive. Purchase price was a little up there (about $92k) and held an annual registration fee of about $305. I happen to be in Japan and found the exact same model for sale, and for a RIDICULOUSLY cheap amount. I own a house in Tokyo, Japan so I figured why not own a car there as well, especially when I can buy the X5 for only $8k USD. While I was researching it, I discovered that in places like Japan, the vehicles are ridiculously cheap, because vehicle registration was roughly $13k a year. Would you consider that to be a reasonable amount? NOT AT ALL! I’d say, $13k was a bit of a surprise, and kind of ruined the fun idea of vehicle ownership in that country so I never bought it. I still just rent cars or public transportation

Idiots assume, an intelligent person goes in prepared.
 
EdFred said:
In Michigan it's $0.01/lb of gross weight.

But we do get a nifty airport guide that has airport information along with meals/lodging/transportation/attractions near the airport plus a diagram for each public use airport in the state.
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thats one thing I miss about Michigan, everything is so cheap!
 
SkyChaser said:
Unfortunately, it is apparently not a fixed fee. It sounds like your plane gets assessed every year and they tax you an unpublished percentage of its assessed value. The state site directed a person to contact their county assessors directly for information about yearly fees.

https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/industry/vehicles-vessels-aircraft-guide.htm#Aircraft

https://www.acassessor.org/business-owners/non-commercial-private-aircraft/
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Thank you, that’s what I came up with also, “an unpublished amount”. Not sure why they keep it a secret. I used to have a sailboat they tried to tax me on. Looks like with a plane it might be smart to go the ways of the boring world and create a LLC specifically for the ownership of the vessel.
 
Your thread was titled “Annual fees” and I guess it could have been better titled “California State Fees”.

If you try to keep your airplane in CA physically, but out of CA just be aware they have been known to track Flightaware to prove a point and generate taxes. Easy to block. Simply trying to provide helpful tips.

Here in AZ, state registration is $25 per year.
 
There is no annual registration fee. The registration has to be updated every three years. Currently it costs $5.

The only "annual" fee is state tax.

Don't expect to get too many straight answers from this board.
 
Hi neighbor.

You're applying car logic to aircraft. Planes are not "registered" in California. Ever see a CA license plate on a plane?

Annual property tax runs appx 1% of the value of the aircraft and will be collected by the county assessor. They will have an aircraft (usually "boats and vessels") branch and they are always real surprised when someone calls THEM as it's usually the other way around. They'll helpfully describe their valuation and billing practices. As an engineer, you'll find them irritatingly unscientific, bordering on capricious, like much of the world.
 
Federal registration, $5 every 3 years. State registration, varies by state from nothing to lots. In CT it's according to gross weight, mine costs $90/year, and 6.35% sales tax at purchase. Some states have a yearly personal property tax in addition to or instead of registration. In some states the personal property tax goes to the town the plane is hangared in.
 
You're asking the right question. Net Net, you're not going to have someone here give you the final answer. The answer is that it all depends on your unique situation. The answer will be found by you digging into all of the possible costs. The group here can suggest things for you to consider and investigate that can go into your unique spreadsheet.

How many hours do you plan to fly a year? Insurance? How many hours do you have? Getting instrument rated? State, county, local taxes. Tie down or hanger? Engine rebuild fund. Instrument upgrades needed (GPS, etc.). Budget large amount for your first annual. Fuel cost assumptions.

Spin a spreadsheet around a lot to help you think it through.upload_2022-5-11_11-40-22.png
 
Roju said:
These are the unhelpful answers I didn’t expect from this site.
Click to expand...
This is the internet after all.

Unfortunately, you kind of set up this situation with your initial post. The title sounded like you where looking for annual inspection info. Then it looked like you wanted federal registration info. But I guess what you really wanted was state property tax info.

Roju said:
Idiots assume, an intelligent person goes in prepared.
Click to expand...

What do you call the person who asks unknown people on the internet, rather than asking the state or county taxing office? Because if I wanted to know what the annual property tax would be on a 1998 Cessna 182 (for example), I would definitely be asking the people who collect the tax.
 
Must be on a roll at PoA: people cheating on tests, auto mechanics working on aircraft, and an IT professional who doesn't know everything....:)
 
@Roju

I've been trying to hold my tongue a little and remain in the "Helpful People" category.

That said. Here I go.

  • There are no dumb questions but there are Inquisitive Idiots.
  • Ask better questions, get better answers.
  • This is the Internet. You have no control over how we, or anyone else conducts ourselves or answers your questions.
  • If you dare to violate the above, expect to be disappointed. But this is YOUR FAULT, not ours.
 
Roju said:
I've got all the numbers behind the gps subscription, hanger, annual inspection, maintenance, insurance, and such, I'm just lost when it comes to annual registration fee. I can go online at the California DMV website and see my Harley costs me $215 a year, my Hayabusa costs me $208 a year, even my boat is easy to calculate at roughly $16 every 2 years, but aviation stuff isn't clear. I've read there's a $5 fee for holding the "N" registration number, but I know that can't be all. There's no way, ESPECIALLY in California, that registration fee is only $5 a year.
Click to expand...
You can't know what your annual inspection is going to cost. It's a floating cost. A typical annual with no squawks might run 2000-2500. They say the first one hurts the most but that's not always true. My dad's went in last year and found a boss on the accessory case somehow broke and the case needed to go to divco. That was an 8500 annual. AD's pop up and those cost money to satisfy even if it's just putting in inspection panels. If you're worried about what amounts to a sack of potatoes you might think about renting or joining a club. Each state does things differently and that's behind some of the answers as well as the oddly phrased question. When I hear cost and annual in the same sentence I think maintenance
 
Roju said:
I've got all the numbers behind the gps subscription, hanger, annual inspection, maintenance, insurance, and such, I'm just lost when it comes to annual registration fee. I can go online at the California DMV website and see my Harley costs me $215 a year, my Hayabusa costs me $208 a year, even my boat is easy to calculate at roughly $16 every 2 years, but aviation stuff isn't clear. I've read there's a $5 fee for holding the "N" registration number, but I know that can't be all. There's no way, ESPECIALLY in California, that registration fee is only $5 a year.
Click to expand...
Two answers;
- There is no state registration fee, registration is federal and is $5 every three years. (likely the best deal in aviation)
- California will charge a property tax. I'm not familiar with CA, but there is one and it's levied by county. Here for example is Sonoma County https://sonomacounty.ca.gov/adminis...sidered tangible and,aircraft as of January 1.
 
$50K for the plane, must be a clapped-out 150.
 
Racerx said:
You can't know what your annual inspection is going to cost. It's a floating cost. A typical annual with no squawks might run 2000-2500. They say the first one hurts the most but that's not always true. My dad's went in last year and found a boss on the accessory case somehow broke and the case needed to go to divco. That was an 8500 annual. AD's pop up and those cost money to satisfy even if it's just putting in inspection panels. If you're worried about what amounts to a sack of potatoes you might think about renting or joining a club. Each state does things differently and that's behind some of the answers as well as the oddly phrased question. When I hear cost and annual in the same sentence I think maintenance
Click to expand...

Amen to that. I had annuals for as little as $1,000 and as much as $6,000. Both were surprising. I certainly preferred the $1,000 surprise.
 
You people pay State registration fees?

I thought that was determined to be illegal. Screw that...
 
Connecticut used to have yearly personal property tax on airplanes, payable to the town, but no aircraft registration. They dropped the tax with great fanfare about "tax relief"... and quietly instituted the requirement for a state aircraft registration... you buy the registration sticker from the town tax clerk, and the town keeps the money.
 
I'm based at KPOU.
No state registration.
I'm paying $440.00 a month for a hanger and $1,200.00 a year for insurance for a 1948 Piper PA-17 with no electrical system.
My annual is scheduled for June and the "buy in" price for the annual starts at $1,300.00. That's with me doing all the disassembly and reassembly.
It also needs a 500 hr mag check.
 
Hi, you might be well served to talk to a fellow with a similar plane on your field. The costs people post here vary quite a bit, reflecting the diversity of experiences and costs through the US. I am surprised at how high some of them are for some people, and how low they are for others, so in the end an aggregate number for the US would not be that useful. It’s like if half the time your house was freezing and half the time it is 120 F, on average it would be perfect, but you wouldn’t enjoy it very much.
 
Your annual property tax appears to be 1% of the airplane value, so at 50k value, your tax is $500. Keep in mind that the county where airplane is in will assess the tax, not the one you live in. The state wants a sales tax when you buy it, but that's one time. I'm not seeing any other tax due.

Others have talked about the aviation fees - hangar/tie down are monthly here, but you could roll that up into an annual contract maybe? Insurance is annual for certain. You'll need an annual at something around $2000, but I don't count corrective maintenance in the annual cost. That's why you have a maintenance fund.

I'm not seeing anything more.
 
Your county assessor will send you a questionnaire form to fill out that they use to determine the tax basis. As schmookeeg said in post 19 the property tax will be close to 1% of the valuation. If for some reason they don't get the form back, they will assign a valuation themselves (don't ask how I know). Also be prepared to pay property tax on a hangar if renting from a government landlord.
 
My Property tax on my airplane in San Diego is about $1700 a year on a airplane they value at $150,000 no other state or registration fees
 
The annual personal property tax on my LSA (assessed value $49,100) when I was based at OAK (Alameda County, CA) was $662.16 (FY 2018-19).
 
Troll

sounds like my brother, has no problem telling you how smart he is over and over, yet can’t grasp simple topics.

The information he’s after is easy to find. But has to make sure we know he’s gut kits if expensive toys, and that he’s really smart.
 
What exactly do you pay for with an annual property tax on an airplane?
 
No idea but my guess would be:

- Private jet charters for politicians
- Court side sports tickets for donors
- Hotels

Probably a million other things. I had no idea that you pay an annual tax on your aircraft in California. I always thought the Canadian gov't is bad when it comes to taxes for toys but California tops even us.
 
In Cali. if you have a plane of "historical significance" and exhibit it 12 or more times a year you are exempt from the property tax. At least that's a minor loophole for those of us with planes of a certain age.
 
Stan Cooper said:
The annual personal property tax on my LSA (assessed value $49,100) when I was based at OAK (Alameda County, CA) was $662.16 (FY 2018-19).
Click to expand...

THANK YOU! You're awesome! I knew someone would have an answer.
 
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