Have aircraft sales/transactions slowed?

Tantalum said:
Student loans are some of the worst types of predatory lending. A ton of young impressionable adults are duped into huge debt..
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Off topic but this. We signed people up to debt at 17 years old that they can't escape via bankruptcy when it's clear they are, for better or worse, lifetime bankrupt. Worse, it's the Dept of Education doing it, a branch of our own government.

Someone said it better than me: "If you beat cancer and two weeks later scientists came out with a miracle cure, why would you be angry others will get it instead of suffering through chemo like you did? I'm talking about student loans."

Back on topic, if prices stay elevated like they are things that in the past were non-economical to fix up become flying planes. I want the fleet to grow.
 
"Predatory lending" is an oxymoron. I've never heard of someone being accosted in a dark alley at night, and told "Take my Rolex right this minute or I'll cut you, so help me." Stupid should hurt, a little. Or, perhaps if stupid has to hurt, it should hurt the stupid, and not those who have to pay for their stupidity.

P.S. I had a student loan, and paid it off.
 
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pfarber said:
Experimental category will take off. There are lots of inventory from the 70s-90s that will soon come up for sale.

The RV market will fill in the XC segment and most old certificated AC will simple rot as parts get rediculiously hard to find.
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Well. The RV/kit build market is also suffering. A new listing appeared today on TAP here in Canada with the following text from the seller:

"Tail Kit - Ready for pre-cover inspection
Wing Kit - 75% ready for pre-cover inspection
Fuselage Kit - Paid for and shipped, not started.
Finish Kit - Ordered, 25% deposit paid
Propeller - Ordered, 25% deposit paid
Engine - Ordered, 25% deposit paid

Selling everything at a discount to my own cost which was incurred before the recent price increases from Vans and Lycoming.

Save the shipping cost, Skip the lead time. Deposit prices before recent price increases from Vans and Lycoming."

Not sure how big that price jump was, but now the guy can't financially complete the build
 
Hector Parra said:
Well. The RV/kit build market is also suffering. A new listing appeared today on TAP here in Canada with the following text from the seller:

"Tail Kit - Ready for pre-cover inspection
Wing Kit - 75% ready for pre-cover inspection
Fuselage Kit - Paid for and shipped, not started.
Finish Kit - Ordered, 25% deposit paid
Propeller - Ordered, 25% deposit paid
Engine - Ordered, 25% deposit paid

Selling everything at a discount to my own cost which was incurred before the recent price increases from Vans and Lycoming.

Save the shipping cost, Skip the lead time. Deposit prices before recent price increases from Vans and Lycoming."

Not sure how big that price jump was, but now the guy can't financially complete the build
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Interesting. Maybe buying my Arrow is becoming a better idea.
 
wheaties said:
Someone said it better than me: "If you beat cancer and two weeks later scientists came out with a miracle cure, why would you be angry others will get it instead of suffering through chemo like you did? I'm talking about student loans."
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Last I checked, nobody is willfully signing up for cancer.
 
Hector Parra said:
Well. The RV/kit build market is also suffering. A new listing appeared today on TAP here in Canada with the following text from the seller:

"Tail Kit - Ready for pre-cover inspection
Wing Kit - 75% ready for pre-cover inspection
Fuselage Kit - Paid for and shipped, not started.
Finish Kit - Ordered, 25% deposit paid
Propeller - Ordered, 25% deposit paid
Engine - Ordered, 25% deposit paid

Selling everything at a discount to my own cost which was incurred before the recent price increases from Vans and Lycoming.

Save the shipping cost, Skip the lead time. Deposit prices before recent price increases from Vans and Lycoming."

Not sure how big that price jump was, but now the guy can't financially complete the build
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My guess is he probably was never able to swing it financially and/or is realizing how big of an investment labor wise building an RV really is.
 
LesGawlik said:
"Predatory lending" is an oxymoron. I've never heard of someone being accosted in a dark alley at night, and told "Take my Rolex right this minute or I'll cut you, so help me." Stupid should hurt, a little. Or, perhaps if stupid has to hurt, it should hurt the stupid, and not those who have to pay for their stupidity.

P.S. I had a student loan, and paid it off.
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Stupid is as stupid does
Nuthin personal. But it was just hangin there in the air waiting for someone to jump on it. I had to do it. Thanks for your responsibility
 
Racerx said:
My guess is he probably was never able to swing it financially and/or is realizing how big of an investment labor wise building an RV really is.
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That too. I've noticed an increase on WIP kits for sale too. Seems like some underestimate both time and $ needed to complete them.
 
luvflyin said:
Stupid is as stupid does
Nuthin personal. But it was just hangin there in the air waiting for someone to jump on it. I had to do it. Thanks for your responsibility
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I don't know what you think I put out there "hangin' in the air." I did not say that getting a student loan or paying it back was stupid. I knew what I was borrowing, and I knew I had to pay it back. I was grateful for the loan. It, like the other loans I've gotten, gave me opportunities I otherwise would not have had. But I did not try to avoid responsibility by claiming that I was a victim of "predatory" lending, or anything else. Anyone can come up with a reason why they don't have to pay back a loan, especially when they can't return the items for which the loan was used.

What is "stupid" is the concept that someone was compelled to take money, that their will was so overborne that they could not refuse. Unless, of course, your lender is the Godfather.
 
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LesGawlik said:
I don't know what you think I put out there "hangin' in the air." I did not say that getting a student loan or paying it back was stupid. I knew what I was borrowing, and I knew I had to pay it back. I was grateful for the loan. It, like the other loans I've gotten, gave me opportunities I otherwise would not have had. But I did not try to avoid responsibility by claiming that I was a victim of "predatory" lending, or anything else. Anyone can come up with a reason why they don't have to pay back a loan, especially when they can't return the items for which the loan was used.

What is "stupid" is the concept that someone was compelled to take money, that their will was so overborne that they could not refuse. Unless, of course, your lender is the Godfather.
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It was just a punchline. A lot of folk here have been talkin about how some that got student loans now are off the hook to pay them back. You did pay yours back. Many would consider paying money that you don’t have to pay would be stupid. Once again, I meant nothing personal about it. I’m sure you did it long before this you can get off the hook for it thing began. It made me think of the Forest Gump line. I was just being an amateur comedian.
 
Shopping now, having gotten back into the air after a break - getting re-current and ready for an IPC in a Cirrus SR20, 'cause it's convenient for now. Nice airplane, but I just don't see the value for the prices being asked - the 2007 I'm flying has siblings selling for $200K plus. I mean, it's a nice airplane, handles OK, is a decent IFR platform, but there's nothing particular outstanding about it to justify such a premium - except it is what the market will bear. There are Marchetti SF260s in the used Cirrus price range, and having flown both, IMHO the Marchetti is far more airplane. Half a million for a new 172 or close to a million for a Cirrus isn't possible for me - but $50-60K for a well equipped LongEZ or even twice that for a solid RV might be. Long winded way of saying I'll delay a few months, keep renting the Cirrus, and see if the market trajectory goes in my favor.
 
LesGawlik said:
But I did not try to avoid responsibility by claiming that I was a victim of "predatory" lending, or anything else.
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You’re the responsible borrower that should gain benefit from borrowing, but unfortunately too many people have been cool-aided into a different mindset.
 
You borrow money, you should pay it back. If you don’t, there should be consequences.

Maybe not being able to shed it in BK is too far. But you should have to go through BK including the tarnished credit record to shed the debt at least.

Same with the jingle mail phenomenon in the early 2010s. You shouldn’t be able to walk away from a commitment Scott free.
 
wheaties said:
Off topic but this. We signed people up to debt at 17 years old that they can't escape via bankruptcy when it's clear they are, for better or worse, lifetime bankrupt. Worse, it's the Dept of Education doing it, a branch of our own government.
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What’s this we stuff kemosabe? Two kids simultaneous at big state schools from 2012-2016. One graduated debt free and commissioned in the Army. Other is a teacher and has paid off what little debt she chose to take on. Both did it in resident.

Both had scholarships in addition to what we chipped in. The deal was they had to have skin in the game; our chip in was a match to their scholarship and work income, up to 100% room and board for up to four academic years.
 
That's just stupid. Doubt this plane will sell. Owners are either delusional about their asking prices because they keep hearing how much those plane prices came up, or they are too emotionally attached to their planes. It may be worth that much to him/her, but at the end of the day, it's only worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it. No one in their right mind will pay $300k for a '68 Cessna 172, no matter how many Stewarts are holding the doors open for you. The asking price will drop or the plane will disappear from the market unsold.

The Cherokee I referenced in my earlier post that was up for sale for $60k in the fall, then disappeared for a few months and then reappeared just last week once again for $60k is still up for sale and the owner reduced the asking price to $50k. That thing lost value quicker than Bitcoin in a week lol. He'll end up selling it for $45k and that's about right for the plane.
 
TCABM said:
What’s this we stuff kemosabe? Two kids simultaneous at big state schools from 2012-2016. One graduated debt free and commissioned in the Army. Other is a teacher and has paid off what little debt she chose to take on. Both did it in resident.

Both had scholarships in addition to what we chipped in. The deal was they had to have skin in the game; our chip in was a match to their scholarship and work income, up to 100% room and board for up to four academic years.
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Good parent. My daughter just recently graduated NCSU Summa Cum Laud in biochemistry. Worked as a resident assistant for the whole 4 years to pay for housing costs. The remaining debt, I have offered to match her dollar for dollar to pay it off. We also provided my wife’s old Rav4. Waiting for the Navy to pay for med school.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
That's just stupid. Doubt this plane will sell. Owners are either delusional about their asking prices because they keep hearing how much those plane prices came up, or they are too emotionally attached to their planes. It may be worth that much to him/her, but at the end of the day, it's only worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it..
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This reminds me of when I was trying to buy a 1960s c182 a couple years ago.
According to the post there was nothing wrong with it. OK, price is 90k for a turnkey a/c.
Turns out there was a pretty nasty gas leak from both wings, plane absolutely reeked of gasoline during prebuy. Owner sticks to $90k.
GPS doesn't work and has actually been INOP for years. Still $90k.
Glass needed to be replaced, had a hard time seeing out the front window. Stuck to $90k.
Engine failed inspection and 2 A&Ps both ruled it needed an immediate OH to be flight worthy. Owner stuck to... you guessed it $90k.

Obviously I rejected the purchase. It took him 2 months of trying to sell the plane at that price before finally calling back and being like: "OK, how about we make a deal". lol.
Some people are seriously delusional about the value of their plane or just have a hard time financially accepting it's not worth anywhere near that. A 300k$ 1968 172 even with slick new avionics is one such example.
 
Tom Wells said:
This reminds me of when I was trying to buy a 1960s c182 a couple years ago.
According to the post there was nothing wrong with it. OK, price is 90k for a turnkey a/c.
Turns out there was a pretty nasty gas leak from both wings, plane absolutely reeked of gasoline during prebuy. Owner sticks to $90k.
GPS doesn't work and has actually been INOP for years. Still $90k.
Glass needed to be replaced, had a hard time seeing out the front window. Stuck to $90k.
Engine failed inspection and 2 A&Ps both ruled it needed an immediate OH to be flight worthy. Owner stuck to... you guessed it $90k.

Obviously I rejected the purchase. It took him 2 months of trying to sell the plane at that price before finally calling back and being like: "OK, how about we make a deal". lol.
Some people are seriously delusional about the value of their plane or just have a hard time financially accepting it's not worth anywhere near that. A 300k$ 1968 172 even with slick new avionics is one such example.
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And the sad part is, these planes sit, rot, and contribute to the loss of available aircraft- driving up prices.

A crying shame.
 
Tom Wells said:
This reminds me of when I was trying to buy a 1960s c182 a couple years ago.
According to the post there was nothing wrong with it. OK, price is 90k for a turnkey a/c.
Turns out there was a pretty nasty gas leak from both wings, plane absolutely reeked of gasoline during prebuy. Owner sticks to $90k.
GPS doesn't work and has actually been INOP for years. Still $90k.
Glass needed to be replaced, had a hard time seeing out the front window. Stuck to $90k.
Engine failed inspection and 2 A&Ps both ruled it needed an immediate OH to be flight worthy. Owner stuck to... you guessed it $90k.

Obviously I rejected the purchase. It took him 2 months of trying to sell the plane at that price before finally calling back and being like: "OK, how about we make a deal". lol.
Some people are seriously delusional about the value of their plane or just have a hard time financially accepting it's not worth anywhere near that. A 300k$ 1968 172 even with slick new avionics is one such example.
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Some folks got lots of money for their 50 year old houses. So they're thinking they can do the same with their 50 year old plane.
 
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