Experimental aircraft identifier on radio calls

[elvisAteMySandwich]

I trained in certificated 172s so my airplane identifier was always something like Cessna 1234A or Skyhawk 1234A when talking to tower or on CTAF. But now I'm looking at an experimental VANS RV. I've heard people use experimental 1234A as well as RV 1234A.

Is one more correct than another? I want to start building good habits from the start.

 

[Daleandee]

Required on the initial call to ATC ...

§ 91.319 (d) (3)

I use the the aircraft type, then "experimental", then tail number.

 

[flyingron]

Most of my friends with experimentals use something like EXPERIMENTAL SEARAY 714YF on the initial call and then SEARAY 4YF on others.

 

[elvisAteMySandwich]

Required on the initial call to ATC ...

I remember reading that it should be 'experimental 1234A' when studying for the PPL. But in the real world I would think that wouldn't help ATC. There are experimentals that cruise at 80 knots and ones that top 160 knots. How is ATC supposed to know if you're a slow or fast bogey for spacing?

 

[FORANE]

Always use lancair 123z or RV 123z. Never had any issues with that phraseology. Perhaps if the experimental was a less known variant then experimental 123z might be more appropriate.

 

[Dana]

"Experimental biplane 1234", they always come back with "experimental 1234". If they ask my aircraft type (about half the time), it's "1234 is a Hatz biplane, model charlie baker one, slow mover" (70kts and no transponder, they're always asking where I am).

Always use lancair 123z or RV 123z. Never had any issues with that phraseology. Perhaps if the experimental was a less known variant then experimental 123z might be more appropriate.

§ 91.319

(d) Each person operating an aircraft that has an experimental certificate shall -

(3) Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers.​

 

[tsts4]

I use experimental 12345 on my initial call to the Tower and RV 12345 on all subsequent calls and to any other ATC facility.

 

[AggieMike88]

Most of my friends with experimentals use something like EXPERIMENTAL SEARAY 714YF on the initial call and then SEARAY 4YF on others.

this is what I hear locally

 

[iamtheari]

Depends on whether I’m flying IFR or VFR. For IFR, I say “November 123 Experimental” on the first call. They have the other stuff they need from my flight plan, and usually they call me “RV 123.” For VFR, I say “RV November 123 Experimental” on the first call and “RV 123” after that. You can also say “Experimental 123” and I don’t know if anyone cares if the Experimental comes before or after the tail number.

 

[Stewartb]

I asked Anchorage tower how they’d like me to call. For my Cessna they prefer the model so they can judge speed and make easier visual ID. For my exp they prefer Cub, since mine is a Cub derivative. Again, it was about speed and what to look for.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It's interesting and I'd love to hear from some of our controllers on this. Not an experimental but similar experiences with an LSA. VFR.

On the first flight following call, I said, "SportCruiser 1234." "What is that? Is it like a 152?" Realizing they were mostly interested in performance, I just said, "it's a light sport." Controller was satisfied but I was left wondering what they put in for "type" in the strip. I never gave the ICAO designation.

Flight 2. Having learned my lesson, I called in with "Light sport 1234." "Say type" was the reply. I gave the ICAO designation and we were good to go.

Flight 3. "Light sport 1234." This time that's all they cared about. Never asked for type at all.

Still wondering what ATC puts in the strip (electronic or otherwise) in the "type" field. From prior discussions, I know they have to put something there and I've heard it's a validated field that only takes certain values (may be dependent on what software is being used). Is there some generic for things like LSAs?

 

[Bill Watson]

I use “Experimental 326UH” for my RV10 on all calls but I fly almost exclusively IFR so ATC usually knows the type.

Seems strange to say the letters “RV” rather the “Romeo Victor” but obviously “RV” works well.


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[Pilawt]

AIM 4-2-4(a)(3) suggests the format "Breezy six one three Romeo Experimental," then says, "omit 'Experimental' after initial contact."

At my home field there is a Boeing 737-800 that operates on an experimental certificate. One day I was returning to the hive in my 172N, N737YQ, when "Experimental 737 Alpha Sierra" called in ten miles out. Apparently thinking it was some sort of homebuilt bugsmasher, tower told him to follow the Skyhawk (me) three miles ahead.

Knowing what was going on, I offered to do a wide 360 to let the ... ahem ... Boeing in first. Tower picked up on the clue, and said yeah, that's a good idea. After the Boeing landed, tower suggested it might be helpful if he used "Experimental Boeing" in his callsign.

 

[nauga]

After the Boeing landed, tower suggested it might be helpful if he used "Experimental Boeing" in his callsign.

...and when he did scores of internet pilots jumped on him for adding superfluous non-required verbiage to his comm sequence, thereby clobbering frequencies around the globe, causing strife, world hunger, and swarms of killer bees.

Nauga,
who says what he needs to get his point across

 

[FORANE]

"Experimental biplane 1234", they always come back with "experimental 1234". If they ask my aircraft type (about half the time), it's "1234 is a Hatz biplane, model charlie baker one, slow mover" (70kts and no transponder, they're always asking where I am).



§ 91.319

(d) Each person operating an aircraft that has an experimental certificate shall -

(3) Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers.​

How many controllers would not know that a Lancair or RV is an experimental? Seems redundant to me. If I Just state experimental, a controller has less information than if I state Lancair or RV. After stating Lancair or RV in the callsign, it is quite rare for a controller to ask my aircraft type. I believe I have only been asked when requesting IFR. Now if I had a less well known type such as a Hatz biplane, that's a whole different situation.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Ain't but 10 people on this planet ever even heard of the kind of airplane I fly (Merlin GT) - so just experimental slow mover for me.

I did get charged a $50 turbine surcharge when I got gas once (8 gallons of 100LL) because the only Merlin in their data base is a twin turboprop...

vs

 

[Grum.Man]

Going to a towered field I usually say "Experimental 92D". Otherwise I just say "Questair 92D". For some reason it seems towers prefer to hear the experimental phrase rather than the actual type.

 

[FORANE]

Going to a towered field I usually say "Experimental 92D". Otherwise I just say "Questair 92D". For some reason it seems towers prefer to hear the experimental phrase rather than the actual type.

Likely because they have no idea what a questair is.

 

[jesse]

I always went with "experimental" once, then just called myself "Flybaby" after that and didn't bother with the N number at uncontrolled fields. Not once did I ever encounter another Flybaby in the air, so that worked fine.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I always went with "experimental" once, then just called myself "Flybaby" after that and didn't bother with the N number at uncontrolled fields. Not once did I ever encounter another Flybaby in the air, so that worked fine.

Despite the FAA telling us to use tail number at non-towered fields, anything that helps visually identify you to others is a big help.

 

[Timbeck2]

It differs by controller but what I've seen for the type is "HXB" in the data block. It stands for home built experimental; don't ask me why is isn't HBX as I wasn't invited to the naming committee. Perhaps it was already taken. Other controllers will type in RV7 or whatever 3 letter they can apply. My advise is to say, "November *****, an experimental RV7" or whatever yours happens to be on the first call up. There are a LOT of experimentals out there, one can't expect controllers to know them all.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It differs by controller but what I've seen for the type is "HXB" in the data block. It stands for home built experimental; don't ask me why is isn't HBX as I wasn't invited to the naming committee. Perhaps it was already taken. Other controllers will type in RV7 or whatever 3 letter they can apply. My advise is to say, "November *****, an experimental RV7" or whatever yours happens to be on the first call up. There are a LOT of experimentals out there, one can't expect controllers to know them all.

That's interesting. It led me to look at the FAA documents about type designators for data strips. I didn't find a reference to HBX or a generic code for experimentals or light sports but I did see a list of special codes for a number of items (JO 7360.1E):

2-3. Special Designators. Use these designators for the following aircraft:

a. BALL – Balloon.
b. GLID – Glider/sailplane.
c. GYRO – Micro-/ultra-light gyrocopter.
d. PARA – Powered parachute/Paraplane.
e. SHIP – Airship.
f. UHEL – Micro-/ ultra-light helicopter.
g. ULAC – Micro-/ultra-light aircraft.
h. ZZZZ – Aircraft type not yet assigned a designator, with a description of the type in Item 18 (Other
Information) of the ICAO flight plan or Remarks of a NAS flight plan.​

Possible they are using that ZZZZ code in the Type box and when they don't have of don't care about the ICAO?

 

[jnmeade]

AIM 4-2-4(a)(3) suggests the format "Breezy six one three Romeo Experimental," then says, "omit 'Experimental' after initial contact."

This is the way I do it.

 

[nauga]

It differs by controller but what I've seen for the type is "HXB" in the data block. It stands for home built experimental; don't ask me why is isn't HBX as I wasn't invited to the naming committee. Perhaps it was already taken.

HXA, HXB, and HXC were supposed to be used for homebuilts with different speed ranges (Homebuilt eXperimental, speed range A), but ISTR the practice going away some time ago.

Other controllers will type in RV7 or whatever 3 letter they can apply. My advise is to say, "November *****, an experimental RV7" or whatever yours happens to be on the first call up. There are a LOT of experimentals out there, one can't expect controllers to know them all.

My initial call is usually "experimental xxxxx" or "experimental xxxxx, single RV-4" and then just "xxxxx" after that, but my type is pretty clear from my tail number.

Nauga,
hightailing it

 

[Dana]

HXA, HXB, and HXC were supposed to be used for homebuilts with different speed ranges (Homebuilt eXperimental, speed range A), but ISTR the practice going away some time ago.

There are official type designators for the more common homebuilt types, so just like C172 or PA28 or J3 or B737, there's also RV8, LGEZ (LongEze) CAMP (Pietenpol Aircamper), etc. The full list is here.

Even BL11 (Bleriot 11, there is one original registered in the US, at Old Rhinebeck) , though I rather doubt Bleriot pilots will be talking to ATC or filing flight plans.

 

[nauga]

There are official type designators for the more common homebuilt types, so just like C172 or PA28 or J3 or B737, there's also RV8, LGEZ (LongEze) CAMP (Pietenpol Aircamper), etc. The full list is here.

I was curious about the history so dug a little bit. The HX types were in JO 7110.65, which was eventually replaced by 7360.1, in your link.
Here's the relevant part of 7110.65 that describes the speed ranges and some other performance that I had forgotten. They even include the rationale for generic descriptors, which were abandoned for specific descriptors only a few years later. I guess indecision really is the key to flexibility.

ETA: Here's an order from 2016 that talks about no longer using the generic designators (see p. 3).

Nauga,
HCDIC