SODA bipolar

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waldronpilot

Filing Flight Plan
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Apr 16, 2022
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waldronpilot99
i am verry interested in getting a private pilot license but i have bipolar however my Dr says that on medication my condition is static and non progressive and that my judgment is better than someone who does not have mental illness and because i only take my meds at night i am not sedated when awake and that i should be given the opportunity to have an alertness test at high altitude can i get a SODA? i'm an fantastic boater and can dock an out board perfectly in extreme weather and have not gotten a speeding ticket in 9 years. i play rugby and am extremely coordinated i have had a number of concussion one of which was a broken cheekbone which i played on for ten minutes which may have contributed to my past instability how ever my doctor says that i have recovered but as I'm sure you know once bipolar always bipolar. i take an extremely low dose of clozapine for my size (6'3 205lbs 200 miligrams) only at night and 300 milligrams of Lamictal and 6 milligrams of Vraylar in the morning. i like taking my meds and im very hopeful that the faa lets me have a the chance to prove that i am not sedated at high altitudes in the form of a practical flight exam is that even a thing? if so is a soda possible?
 
Short answer: no.
The FAA is pretty inflexible when it comes to bipolar. You can't "demonstrate" your way past it.

-- also not a doctor
 
The FAA doesn’t maintain a drug database, but several,other organization Dow.
https://www.aviationmedicine.com/medication-database/

Lamictal - not allowed
Vraylar - pretty new so not listed, but similar drugs in the category are not allowed.
Clozapine - not allowed.

I’m sorry to say I see practically no chance of passing a medical. Light Sport is possible but I’m not sure I even recommend that. What other hobbies do you find interesting?
 
It looks like your options are Sport Pilot, ultralights, or gliders (including motorgliders). If you try to get a medical and fail (as you will), Sport Pilot won't be an option.
 
Dana said:
It looks like your options are Sport Pilot, ultralights, drones, or gliders (including motorgliders). If you try to get a medical and fail (as you will), Sport Pilot won't be an option.
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FIFY

Drones might be the best choice given the bipolar condition and the meds, even though the others mentioned would be legal. There’s a reason the FAA is so strict about bipolar.
 
what if i was to go off for over 90 days? my grandpa had bipolar took meds for 5 years in his late 20's early 30's and was good till he died at age 80. how long would i have to demonstrate stability for?
 
waldronpilot said:
what if i was to go off for over 90 days? my grandpa had bipolar took meds for 5 years in his late 20's early 30's and was good till he died at age 80. how long would i have to demonstrate stability for?
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Then you would have untreated bipolar.

The problem is that you have a diagnosis of bipolar. That's typically a slam-dunk denial. But please feel free to check with an AME.
 
waldronpilot said:
what if i was to go off for over 90 days?
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Please don't do this. If the meds keep you functional and stable and happier, then this is the most important thing, and to go off them will only make things worse.

With bipolar, there is no "demonstration" of anything as an option to get an FAA medical -- with or without meds. So you might as well be on them if they work. To the FAA, the matter is simply closed.
 
Yeah, can't say I've ever hear a success story of someone going off bipolar meds. But I've heard plenty of nightmare stories....
 
i guess staying on them is the best bet and hope they chagne the rules on meds. why is it that they dont like meds? seems a bit backwards
 
waldronpilot said:
i guess staying on them is the best bet and hope they chagne the rules on meds. why is it that they dont like meds? seems a bit backwards
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It's not just the meds, it's the underlying diagnosis they don't like. And history is full of examples of people with mental conditions who stop taking their meds because they "feel just fine without them" and then do crazy things.
 
you guys have given me a lot of very useful information and i thank you for it. not quite ready to give up. i think if they do change the rules on meds i may have a shot if i stay on them just because i really am doing so well and my doctor says that there is next to no chance of a reoccurring episode if i stay on meds. they already allow ssri's and my doctor has my back 100% so who know the future. allthough he has cancer and i have to find some one new the reports he will write will be VERRY good its my understanding and correct me if i'm wrong but he faa's concern is judgment correct? it does seem strange there opinion on meds and im not quite sure if its because they can cause sedation. is there anything he could include in the reports that could help me in the long run?
 
waldronpilot said:
you guys have given me a lot of very useful information and i thank you for it. not quite ready to give up. i think if they do change the rules on meds i may have a shot if i stay on them just because i really am doing so well and my doctor says that there is next to no chance of a reoccurring episode if i stay on meds. they already allow ssri's and my doctor has my back 100% so who know the future. allthough he has cancer and i have to find some one new the reports he will write will be VERRY good its my understanding and correct me if i'm wrong but he faa's concern is judgment correct? it does seem strange there opinion on meds and im not quite sure if its because they can cause sedation. is there anything he could include in the reports that could help me in the long run?
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I *think* their stance on bipolar and other mental disorders that require drugs as uncertifiable is based on the fact that there is a good chance of someone (not neccessarily you personally) skipping their meds one or more days "because they feel fine" and then crashing and killing whoever was flying with them or people on the ground. Unfortunately, there's not a good way to sort out the people with "mild" cases from the people who have the same diagnosis but with symptoms severe enough that it impacts their ability to function normally.
 
ok thanks so defiantly need him to include that i am not a danger of stopping meds. anything else besides my condition being static and non progressive?
 
also forgot to add they do make an injectable version of the meds i take that last one month and i could forward confirmation and my blood levels of the medications to the FAA on my own dime.
 
waldronpilot said:
ok thanks so defiantly need him to include that i am not a danger of stopping meds. anything else besides my condition being static and non progressive?
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You yourself, back in post #7, suggested you might go off the meds. You have implied that you think they may be unnecessary. It seems to me you are in danger of stopping meds.

Untreated bipolar can result in psychotic behavior, hallucinations, suicidal impulses, blackouts, etc. This is why the FAA is so concerned, and it’s just not worth the risk that someone won’t quit medication.

The FAA’s mission is aviation safety. There is no upside for the FAA in allowing people with bipolar disorder to fly, and an enormous downside.

The only way around this is to prove that the diagnosis was in error and that you do not, in fact, have the disorder. It won’t be sufficient to show the effectiveness of the medications.
 
like i like i said i like the meds and i think they are my only shot. i was just gathering information. i guess i will have to see what happens over the next few years legislatively but do still think there is hope. i really do appreciate all the information you guys have given me. thank you all
 
Don't hold your breath for a change in FAA policy; they move at a glacial pace even when there's widespread support for change. I know that you feel this is unfair in your case but the FAA just doesn't care how you feel.
 
waldronpilot said:
like i like i said i like the meds and i think they are my only shot. i was just gathering information. i guess i will have to see what happens over the next few years legislatively but do still think there is hope. i really do appreciate all the information you guys have given me. thank you all
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I don't know if you quite understand what the FAA doesn't like in cases like yours. It's not the meds that are the problem, it is the actual diagnosis. I would highly recommend finding a way to get your "flying fix" in without having to go through the FAA medical system, as I highly, highly doubt that the FAA will ever change its mind about certifying people with such a (in your case, potentially) volatile personality disorder. I'd suggest you look into gliders or Sport Pilot, as others have suggested, with some sort of personal safeguards to make sure that if you do ever have a "bad day" and aren't thinking clearly, you have a way to ensure you don't have to make the decision to not fly while you're in that condition. Aviation is terribly unforgiving of "bad days" no matter how many good days you've accumulated.
 
ok sounds good that the meds are not the problem but the diagnosis. i will look into sports pilot and find a way to ensure i dont have a bad day maybe switch to an injectable version so i don't forget to take them one day. i would enjoy a sports pilot license and the meds do work so i think i can find a way to never have a bad day. thanks for the advice about the diagnosis not the meds. if you guys have any more advice i would love to hear it, especially surrounding a special issuance. sports pilot sounds like a great way to go thanks!
 
Remember that if you try to do special, and fail, you're pretty much done flying as I understand it. Sport pilot would not be an option.

I'd suggest sport or ultralight, and strongly suggest you have some sort of safety mechanism to make sure you're always good to fly. I don't know what that would be. You sound like a young guy, so there's always a chance that something will come around medically that makes it fine for you to get a medical 10-20-30 years from now.
 
waldronpilot said:
you guys have given me a lot of very useful information and i thank you for it. not quite ready to give up. i think if they do change the rules on meds i may have a shot if i stay on them just because i really am doing so well and my doctor says that there is next to no chance of a reoccurring episode if i stay on meds. they already allow ssri's and my doctor has my back 100% so who know the future. allthough he has cancer and i have to find some one new the reports he will write will be VERRY good its my understanding and correct me if i'm wrong but he faa's concern is judgment correct? it does seem strange there opinion on meds and im not quite sure if its because they can cause sedation. is there anything he could include in the reports that could help me in the long run?
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Hi I’d love an update on how this worked out for you as I am in a a very similar situation right now and am wondering if it is worth putting up a fight. Thank you in advance
 
Bella said:
Hi I’d love an update on how this worked out for you as I am in a a very similar situation right now and am wondering if it is worth putting up a fight. Thank you in advance
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Unfortunately, his profile shows no activity since last December, so he probably won't see your message.
 
Bella said:
Hi I’d love an update on how this worked out for you as I am in a a very similar situation right now and am wondering if it is worth putting up a fight. Thank you in advance
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FAA hasn't changed much.

I'm in a similar boat. Psychiatrist blanket Dx'd conditions (Major Dep, Gen Anxiety, Borderline pers, undiag mood, bipolar 2, and ADHD) as a way of Rx'ing meds for assessment--only to conclude that I had no diagnosis and was "still maturing" and marijuana usage coupled with coping with family trauma caused some symptoms that led me into self diagnosing and reaching out for mental health help--when it was a celebration to see a psych...

Fast forward: 4+ years taking zero meds, graduated college, hold a job with promotions and awards, have stable relationships, yet none of that is considered.

10+ years of documented history and maybe they would consider it a misdiagnosis.

FAA just doesn't have a great way of assessing legitimacy of Dx in a swift manner.

So for now, I am just stuck in sport...
 
I am really hoping Mosaic passes. I had the opposite problem. Got all my ratings through CFI/CFII/MEI then diagnosed with depression a year later than bipolar a year after that, so naturally grounded myself and let my medical expire. Spoke with an AME at an outreach event who said in her career she had never seen a special issuance for the condition. I’m stable on meds but those are disqualifying too, though I am actually a much calmer, non aggressive driver on them. Haven’t flown in 8 years, got the bug again, got the updated manuals and will be contacting a sport pilot school shortly.
 
sky7 said:
I am really hoping Mosaic passes. I had the opposite problem. Got all my ratings through CFI/CFII/MEI then diagnosed with depression a year later than bipolar a year after that, so naturally grounded myself and let my medical expire. Spoke with an AME at an outreach event who said in her career she had never seen a special issuance for the condition. I’m stable on meds but those are disqualifying too, though I am actually a much calmer, non aggressive driver on them. Haven’t flown in 8 years, got the bug again, got the updated manuals and will be contacting a sport pilot school shortly.
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You should be proud of yourself for doing the right thing, congrats. Don't know if you will ever qualify for a medical, but kudos on not hiding your condition, don't jeopardize your health by stopping those meds.
 
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