IFR students building cross-country time

EdFred said:
However, you aren't logging PIC (or at least not as allowed by regulation) while the landing is taking place. So for that time period you are logging nothing. Can't log, landing didn't happen (for you), no landing (for you), no XC (for you).



Because they can only log 1/2 the XC time. They are trying to double dip.
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Duh. Thank you. I was missing that. yeah, you can't log safety pilot time as XC.
 
Rgbeard said:
this is why I wrote post #3.

If you’re gonna double dip, just go full-retard and falsify everything you need.
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Interpretation of an ambiguous regulation is not equivalent to wanting to log fake time. Until the chief counsel letter was issued an argument could be made that it was legal.
 
When the FAA issues these chief counsel letters for somewhat ambiguously worded requirements like this case, they really should go edit the regulations to clarify. The chief counsel letter should be an interim solution only unless it's simply agreeing with status quo. Whenever I read a regulation differently than the FAA wants me to, there's no obvious way for me to immediately double check if there are any contrary chief counsel letters somewhere.

Maybe that's a bad idea... every time the FAA revises the federal aviation regulations, they are liable to break something or break something worse!
 
EdFred said:
Cross-country time means -
(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight -
(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;
(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

I guess I read the regulation a bit more strictly:

"Conducted by a person."
Not "...a person, or persons, or crew..."

Also: How does a person who never touches the controls perform a landing?
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I've read it.
 
...somewhere a backseater is reading this thread and reaching for the bottle in their desks. Probably.
 
So, I agree the PNF is double dipping, but it is within the rules to log PIC and with good intention. In the logging discussion it was forgotten that the PF is gaining valuable training experience being hooded during the flight. Since he's a student, he can't file IFR so the PNF has the valuable job of not getting them killed (obstacles, see and avoid, unusual attitudes). However, I propose that legally, not necessarily wisely, he can fall asleep and the FAA would be none-the-wiser as long as the flight ends safely and without a TRACON report or his buddy snitching on him.
 
Rgbeard said:
If six pilots pile in a 6-place airplane, and all think about flying it, while one or two actually control the flight, perhaps all six could log PIC for the XC, as well as other pilots/friends that heard about the flight?
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I don't know - are all the guys sitting in the back CFIIs?
 
bflynn said:
I don't know - are all the guys sitting in the back CFIIs?
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3 can log PIC.
Pilot 1 under the hood as sole manipulator.
Pilot 2 as safety pilot and CFII candidate.
Pilot 3 is a CFII giving pilot 2 instruction how to be a CFII.
 
EdFred said:
3 can log PIC.
Pilot 1 under the hood as sole manipulator.
Pilot 2 as safety pilot and CFII candidate.
Pilot 3 is a CFII giving pilot 2 instruction how to be a CFII.
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Can FAA get a ride? They might not be Pilot 4, nor be able to log it, but it sounds like a barrel of fun for Pilot 1.
 
EdFred said:
3 can log PIC.
Pilot 1 under the hood as sole manipulator.
Pilot 2 as safety pilot and CFII candidate.
Pilot 3 is a CFII giving pilot 2 instruction how to be a CFII.
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What if all the instructors are giving instruction? Log it....!!!!
 
EdFred said:
3 can log PIC.
Pilot 1 under the hood as sole manipulator.
Pilot 2 as safety pilot and CFII candidate.
Pilot 3 is a CFII giving pilot 2 instruction how to be a CFII.
Click to expand...

Anyone see a legal reason why not?
 
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